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ARGH! red text on DVD

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Aaron Neitz
ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 5, 2008 at 11:59:11 pm

I know - DVD's thin colorspace sampling causes red text to tear at the edges like holy hell...

It looks stunning in HD, and we want to stay with these red titles. We're broadcast safe in NTSC so that's not a problem.

Any tricks out there? Is there a way to compress my Mpeg-2 that will yield better results? I'm just thinking in my head there must be plenty of films I have on DVD that have red text for titles, etc...



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Ben Holmes
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 12:21:20 am

Aaron

Not ideal, I know, but if you just dial back that red a little, it will improve the transfer considerably, and still look vivid enough in most cases - around 80% should do it.

Best I got for you.

Ben



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 12:35:46 am

That'd be my advice too. Red sucks in NTSC so suck some it out.


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Aaron Neitz
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 1:14:46 am

Yeah, I'm already at 45% on the vectorscope and about 68% luminosity. So it pretty much is what it is....

thanks though!



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 2:01:42 am

What codec are you coming from and what kind of CG? Boris, Text, PSD?


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Aaron Neitz
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 2:08:00 am

PNG from After Effects. Working in 1080 ProResHQ timeline



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 2:45:57 am

Yeah, that should do it. Are you rendering and alpha and have that all set up straight?


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Aaron Neitz
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 4:15:15 am

It's all ship shape. Looks beautiful in HD, looks beautiful with Kona 3 SD downconversion. Looks so bad in DVD colorspace.... it's depressing!



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 4:24:18 am

[Aaron Neitz] "it's depressing!"

Yes, you are right. 4:2:0 is sad.

Did you try a bit of blur to reduce the hard edge a bit?


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Jóhannes Tryggvason
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 1:40:10 pm

I send a lot of spots to tv stations that use DV-PAL for their playout systems and a few weeks ago had a similar problem, red text turned to absolute rubbish. The only solution then was to dial back the red color until everything became legible...



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Graeme Nattress
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 1:47:00 pm

Does it look bad on a real DVD in a DVD player though? Often they will deal with the chroma subsampling better. What colour is the background it's on. Again, a black line around the red can help if the background is messy.

But in the end, you're stressing the 4:2:0 of the MPEG2, and it's reconstruction on playback in a way it was not designed to cope with. Software players can often just duplicate the 2x2 pixel chroma blocks rather than interpolate and make it look worse than it really does. Then, on interlace, there's the famous MPEG2 decode interlace chroma bug, which again, if it's on your player, would fail on this kind of image.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Aaron Neitz
Re: ARGH! red text on DVD
on Mar 6, 2008 at 6:46:48 pm

It looks worse on Apple's DVD player program than on a real TV. Thanks for pointing that out.

But I'm looking at the titles for the newer "Dawn of the Dead" which are dark, blood red on black. They exhibit similar problems, but not NEARLY as bad as I'm seeing. Mine are are darkish footage. So I'm wondering if there's a specific trick they're using on encode... I'll rip the movie and research it a little more.



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