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beth kidwell
what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 1:10:19 pm

i am down to the final weeks of having to decide between final cut and avid...i have spent a lot of time reading pros and cons of each, spoken to some who love one and hate the other and vice versa,,,and am more confused than ever - i have been cutting documentaries on my discrete edit 6.o for the past several years...and as easy as this has been, i am getting quite bored with waiting 10 minutes as my boris fx does a 10 seocond zoom in on a photo, or waiting forever to do a blur effect - but beyond that, i have also never used a mac and am not very computer literate beyond what is necessary to get me by - this forum has been an invaluable resource...and any thoughts are welcome...ive heard fcp is more "intuitive" and since whichever machine we purchase(after the basic training) i will be carrying right along with several projects - so i cant afford a long learning curve...so - knowing these fascinating facts - any of you have thoughts about this?


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Jeff Carpenter
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 1:29:05 pm

Obviously we're probably all going to prefer Final Cut here. You've heard the reasons why, it seems, so there's no point in repeating them all.

The one solid reason I can give you is the Final Cut Studio package as a whole. Look at the 6 programs it gets you and the price of $1,300. That's a fantastic deal compared to your other similar options.

Obviously it doesn't make sense to save money if you're not happy with your choice, so still get what's right for you. But if it's honestly a tie in your mind I'd consider this factor a good tie-breaker.


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cowcow
Jon_Alpha
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 1:37:07 pm

Hey Beth, I taught myself editing on premiere 6, moved to avid when i got work and now I'm freelance and most of my work is done through Final Cut Pro.

Personally speaking, I have found that FCP to be easily the most integrated system yet. Not that Avid doesn't have it's pro's as well. But for total integration, be it graphics for your doc, cleaining up sound on soundtrack or just burning it to disc each one of these is speaking the same language. And if formats

The interface is very user friendly as well. I only started using FCP in January 06. I just finished an nine month edit on a feature film and used FCP for it. It worked like a dream, the only problems I had was when the cinematographer came to grade the film on our computer and crashed it because he had so many colour effects and filters on it. But that was once and I'd been using it every day for five months.

If it's good enough for Walter Murch there has got to be something good about it.

Jon



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cow
edit
Just do it
by
on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:48:12 pm

I have witnessed a very good friend learn Final Cut against all odds. This guy retired from a state video job after 30 years. At his state job he had completed Avid training certification but was still befuddled by Avid, so his younger assistants did all the Avid based editing. The most this guy could get his PC to do was email and internet Poker. (don't we all wish we had a state job) He retired from his state job and got a job at a legal organization doing video. He completed Final Cut Pro training and has been editing ever since on the Mac. If this anti computer guy can learn Final Cut Pro, so can your grandfather or a five year old toddler or you..

Just do yourself a favor when putting together your Edit system, don't cheap out on the pieces. Get a good monitor, get plenty of good ram, get a good desk and get a qualified raid ( I prefer external, love my Medea) From your background you will probably be back editing in less than 48 hours after set up.(someday I might even read the manual) And then you will be kicking yourself (or you can watch your boss kick himself) for not having changed over earlier. Don't wait any longer. Just do it.


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cowcowcow
JeremyG
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:42:47 pm

[beth kidwell] " so i cant afford a long learning curve"

Honestly? Stick with discreet then. If you really don't have time to learn a new system, then there's no reason to switch. You will HAVE to learn about a new system if you want to successfully complete a project and that takes a learning curve. FCP is intuitive, but you still have to learn how it works.



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cowcow
Shane Ross
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:02:30 pm

Go for the machine that will do the job better. Look at the job and the workflow you need to have to get it done, and see what edit system best accomplishes that workflow. Then get that.

That really is the best way to approach this. Sure FCP has a LOT of tools, but if those tools don't help in the given situation, what is the point in having them?

I use both Avid and FCP and like both...and hate both...for various reasons. SO when a job comes up I look at what would work best and go with that.

But Avid does have a steeper learning curve...so warning.


Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net


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Christian Glawe
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 2:59:50 pm


I used to edit on discreet edit... as far as making a transition, I firmly believe that Final Cut will be an easier transition from discreet than Avid. Avid has a lot of things that are uniquely "Avid", and I think that would pose a steeper learning curve than a transition to Final Cut.

If you indeed cannot afford a learning curve, then you will want to plan carefully... there *will* be a learning curve - there's no way around that fact. *But*... I'd also say that, to get up-and-running in a basic cuts kind of way, FCP is your better bet. Also, from a capabilities-to-price ratio, I think an FCP system offers better bang for the buck.

Granted, we don't know anything about your post workflow, what format you are mastering to, if you are mastering on your own or going to an on-line facility, etc., etc. Honestly, you would need to assess *all* these factors before deciding on the absolute best choice for you.

Good luck!


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Steven Gonzales
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 3:04:39 pm

What system you choose depends on what you will do with it.

There are pros and cons to each. I would say that if you have to finish on high end Avids, or you need to work or collaborate in conjunction with an established Avid based workflow, then go with Avid.

Otherwise, Final Cut is a great set of programs, and its quicktime based paradigm allows easy integration across a whole realm of applications.

I've known people that talk about how great Avid is, and people who talk about how great Final Cut is.

In the end, it's the decision maker behind the tool that makes interesting things happen.


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Alan Okey
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 5:40:24 pm

I think it's accurate to say that it's easier to grow upwards with Final Cut Pro than with Avid. With FCP, you can simply add new hardware to work with higher end formats, while the software remains the same. Avid limits its software to operate within predefined price levels, so if you want to move up to a higher end format (i.e. DV to uncompressed HD) then you must upgrade to a whole new Avid hardware/software system. Two different approaches by two different companies, just ask yourself which makes more sense to you.


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cow
JeremyG
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 10, 2007 at 6:00:03 pm

Alan, that is a truly excellent point.


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Bob Flood
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 14, 2007 at 8:18:34 pm

Hi beth

I was a discreet editor for a long time...it is truly the greatest editor made. evrything about it makes sense.

about a year ago we bought an FCP system. It has taken me several months to "unlearn" my edit ways and learn the FCP way.

as someone coming from discreet to fcp the transition was hard...the only thing i think fcp has going for it is the cost. yeah maybe its easier, but I find there are many things about FCP that fly in the face of ediitng logic. (my biggest peeve being you cant cut, or ripple delete a shot with a dissolve.)

and why are there so many FCP training resources? it seems there are a lot more than for Avid?

i could go on, but let me leave you with this:

would you buy a product from a comapny that delayed releasing a 64 bit operating system so they could make a phone?

my 2 cents

bee eph



"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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JeremyG
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 14, 2007 at 8:50:29 pm

[Bob Flood] "would you buy a product from a comapny that delayed releasing a 64 bit operating system so they could make a phone?"

Just curious, but why did you? Why didn't you stick with the Discreet products and stay in this Autodesk (Or Discreet) nirvana everyone seems to have that came from Edit.

[Bob Flood] "my biggest peeve being you cant cut, or ripple delete a shot with a dissolve.)"

It takes an extra button click (like cut (Apple-x) the dissolve first) then do your edit or ripple delete, then paste the dissolve back on to the cut point (Apple-v).

Not real elegant but that's the way I work with it.






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Andy Mees
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 15, 2007 at 5:08:57 am

[JeremyG]
"[Bob Flood] "would you buy a product from a comapny that delayed releasing a 64 bit operating system so they could make a phone?"

Just curious, but why did you? "


Does it matter? Don't raise to the bait Jeremy!

Bob, for whatever reason obviously you did change and from the tone of your post I'm guessing it was either not your choice to do so, or certainly not a happy one anyway! You sound as bad as me mate :) I'm required to edit on an Edius system, and I like a good grumble about it too!

and on that note...
[Bob Flood] "and why are there so many FCP training resources? it seems there are a lot more than for Avid?"

try finding one for Edius. a plethora of training resources is far from a bad thing.



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JeremyG
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 15, 2007 at 5:15:16 am

[Andy Mees] "Does it matter? Don't raise to the bait Jeremy!"

I'm really curious. Everyone that I have talked to that's used Edit (in person and on these forums) has nothing but great things to say about it, I am just wondering if it's such a good thing, why not stick with an Autodesk product? I am truly just wondering for my own stupid self is all. Does it matter? No, not really.



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Bob Flood
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 15, 2007 at 4:08:56 pm

Jeremy

you said

"if it's such a good thing, why not stick with an Autodesk product?"

because edit wasnt really an autodesk product, at least not in the design sense

Its a long involved story but in a nutshell:

edit was d-Vision"OnLine" and needed money. Discreet bought them and kept the original R & D team together (which is what made it great) and gave them money. They changed the name to edit and made it better. (the only similarity between edit and the other dicreet products was the color of the interface)

THEN

Autodesk bought discreet, which is probably why discreet bought edit

THEN

Autodesk killed edit, and would not sell or release the code that made edit so great

So For Me

Autodesk sucks. I would never buy, rent, or use any autodesk product. ever.
and there are enough alternatives out there that you do not have to, including (grrr) fcp

Soooooo

I had no choice in using this system (some people have FCP thrust upon them). I would rather have gone with avid, but it was purchased and done before we could do anything

BUT

if it were not for this forum, guys like Jeremy G and my tenacious desire to overcome the challenge of learning it, as it seems it is here to stay, I would have given up a long time ago.

so i use fcp. i have fed back my complaints to apple. i am vocal about what i think can be done to improve it. and so on

and BTW, if you cut the the dissolve out, you cant cut the clip, which is what i want to do anyway. AND "one more keystroke"? there are already too many "one more keystroke's" for my personal taste. :) (why cant the dissolve just stay or go away? why do i have to get an error message?)

bee eph




"I like video because its so fast!"

Bob Flood
Greer & Associates, Inc.


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JeremyG
Re: what would YOU do
on Aug 15, 2007 at 5:13:43 pm

Excellent, Bob.


Thank you.




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