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WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS

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Russell Lasson
WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 18, 2007 at 5:24:09 pm

I posted this in the Color forum, but then thought that many of you will be starting to play around with Color in the coming days and weeks, I thought it would be benificial for you as well.

Here is a list of current do's and don'ts that Apple has release on Color. I suggest you read it, even if it doesn't make sense to you right now, down the road, it could save your tail.

http://www.apple.com/support/releasenotes/en/Color_1.0_rn/

And will someone let me know if there is an physical manual for Color that is published with FCS2? What about a electronic one?

-Russ


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Craig Sommerer
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 18, 2007 at 5:31:50 pm

Scroll down this thread, someone kindly inventoried the printed and electronic documentation. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=964183&tstart=0


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David Roth Weiss
Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 5:46:49 pm

The blurb about Color states:

Color Is Not Compatible with Drop Frame Sequences and EDLs
If you intend to grade a sequence in Color, the Timecode used by that sequence must be non-drop frame to guarantee that every clip will be in sync after the Final Cut Pro


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Shane Ross
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 5:52:35 pm

WHAT? I can see that for DVCPRO HD, as it is NDF already, but what about DV? Digibeta? I have timelines that are DF because they are rigidly timed...

What is the deal with this? Walter, was this true with Final Touch too?


Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net


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Russell Lasson
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 5:56:21 pm

Drop Timecode was never listed as an XML issue in FinalTouch that I know of (used FT for 2 years), but it very well could have been a phantom issue. There were so many crazy things that could happen, it was hard to tell what was causing the problem. Now it looks like they found one of the issues.

-Russ


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JeremyG
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:01:57 pm

Holy sh*t.

Good luck all you Guinea Pigs. I hope it goes well for you.

Color doesn't support anamorphic SD and outputs illegal values. At least they tell you about it first.

Here's to Color 1.1

Jeremy


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Bill
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
by
on May 18, 2007 at 6:11:14 pm

Well, if sd drop frame is useless than a majority of the users will pull it off their dock after install. Look forward to an update by time it hits the shelves. Maybe they bit off a little more then they could chew at one time. Or, maybe someone sent out a fake email stating FCS2 was ready for deployment.

Word has it they have been shuffling staff like crazy to meet the deadlines for FCS2, iPhone and Leopard. I have no doubt the problem will be addressed asap.


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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:27:28 pm

None of this sounds very good. I was really looking forward to Color (well, I guess I still am). Nonetheless, re:

[JeremyG] "...and outputs illegal values"

That's not the worst thing. It means that you can grade for formats other than broadcast video (like film, which can have luma values higher than 100... although whether that's supported in Color may be a totally different issue).

Thanks for posting the release notes though!

-Ben


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JeremyG
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:32:56 pm

[Ben Insler] "That's not the worst thing."

I think you misunderstood. It's not that is capable of outputting illegal values, it's that it does whether you want to or not. Apple suggests a hardware legalizer, BTW I never correct for film:

"The borders of extremely high-contrast features (such as the boundaries of specular highlights and computer-generated graphics) may exhibit spikes over 100 and under 0 when outputting to external video scopes, despite the Broadcast Safe settings you


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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:51:30 pm

Ah. Understood, and what you've quoted down there is just not good. Thanks for the info.

Best,

Ben


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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:55:21 pm

[Ben Insler] "
Ah. Understood, and what you've quoted down there is just not good. Thanks for the info."


It's horrendous really. There's no way you can trust a product that can't legalize your video correctly. At least when I use FCP's Broadcast Safe Filter, it hasn't failed me in over 60 HD Broadcast masters yet. Sure I could CC in Color and then run that filter in FCP, but why double render? Looks like I'll be sticking with Colorista and FCP's Broadcast Safe filter at least until Color 1.1.

What a HUGE disappointment from Apple and the Color team. They really dropped the ball on this one.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 7:06:59 pm

Agreed, Walter. I was really looking forward to getting away from working in the filters tab and in a real Grading environment. It all looked so great from the demos.

You recommend colorista over FCP's CC options? And since you mention broadcast safe, have you found a nice...or I should say smooth way to use the saturation section of the braodcast safe filter so that you don't get terrible flat spots? Up until this point I've been designing limited CC 3 Ways to do this, but it requires a stack of filters to de-saturate and re-saturate because FCP's CC filters don't always grab supersaturated areas when limit effects are added into the mix.

Thanks,

Ben


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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 19, 2007 at 10:17:26 am

[Ben Insler] "You recommend colorista over FCP's CC options? And since you mention broadcast safe, have you found a nice...or I should say smooth way to use the saturation section of the braodcast safe filter so that you don't get terrible flat spots?"

Yeah, I recommend Colorista as a good complement to the FCP 3 Way. The one big issue Colorista has is a hard clamp on the luminance for anything over 100 IRE. Even if you pull the levels down after applying the filter, you'll still have a hard bright spot with a loss of visual information on the screen.

In those cases, I'll apply the FCP 3 Way first to drop down the highlights, then apply Colorista to grade from there. I use the FCP Broadcast Safe Filter only for protecting the luminance, I handle all saturation manually.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 10:31:38 pm

There is a user preference in Color that sets a broadcast legal only parameter control or broadcast only after output setting.

from the manual:

"If you turn Broadcast Safe on right away, illegal portions of the signal are limited
immediately, and can it be difficult to see exactly how much data is being clipped.
When you


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Shane Ross
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 10:43:19 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "There is a user preference in Color that sets a broadcast legal only parameter control or broadcast only after output setting."

Sheesh you guys...jumping and complaining about an application before you even get your hands on it and see what controls it has.

This ANTICIPATION is going a bit far...


Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net


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JeremyG
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 19, 2007 at 12:25:51 am

[Shane Ross] "This ANTICIPATION is going a bit far..."

i hear you, but the long list of things that are not quite working with Color on release day are glaring at all of us.



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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 19, 2007 at 3:38:53 am

Color is grading software, not color correction software. So it's whole workflow is new to FCS users. It's not your typical FCP round trip workflow aka Motion/or Livetype at all. All media has to be QT movies no tiffs, no FCP stills, no titles etc. (those things have to be exported as QT movies before you can grade it) Color won't playback transitions.

Only whole sequences "send to" Color for starters. Hint: Like a film workflow...

You have to look at it as something other than a plugin effect workflow wise. It's not cc filters, It's grading software. You can export back to FCP, and then take CC from there on too. so if it's out of safe, you can CERTAINLY finish it back in FCP. You'll find it's uses are immense, and the learning curve steep. This is colorist's software, not a cheap plugin.

For a 1.0 release, from how it integrated with FCP when it wasn't Apple's product (what? six MONTHS ago), it's remarkable the improvements in that arena according to some folk that I'm sure would know. They ran the software with FCP in those days and have run Color now.

Before one decides it's some sort of failure, learn what it is and what it does (and doesn't) do... try it and if doesn't fit into your workflow or liking don't use it.

Why worry and sort of "pre complain"... You didn't pay much for it. I was totally shocked when Apple just bundled $25,000 software right into Studio 2 and didn't raise the price a nickel quite frankly.

I've used the softare and it's incredible. Just what was missing in my arsenal. Incredibly powerful grading software. The workflow will likely evolve over time too. But there's no other NLE software out there with the heretofor expensive power of Color "tossed in" ala Apple and Final Touch don't think.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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JeremyG
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 19, 2007 at 4:45:30 am

Great points, Jerry. I hear you and have mulled it all over. I stayed home this evening so I have a response.

It just seems that the whole point of putting $25,000 grading software in Final Cut Studio that is used for broadcast would be to make sure that the output was legal, is all. The weird intricacies like no 'undo' on certain functions, weird multiclip support, some XML hang ups, df/ndf stuff seems to be all bugs to work out of the system and most people can probably work around those. It's those types of things I do not fret about in today's download-a-point-release-for-instant-gratification-and-bug-fixes world we live in today. If it is going to be integrated into the Studio of apps, it seems it should work well with the apps. Shake was kept separate and never integrated into Studio, perhaps Color should have been the same, just like Shake isn't for everyone, Color probably won't be either. DOn't get me wrong, I am excited. I was evaluating Final Touch when the big announcement was made that Apple bough them. This is a tool that I would love to use extensively. But to grade on a $25,000 app only to have it render all messed up and then have to buy a suggested hardware legalizer seems kind of goofy.

Frankly I am really sick and tired of the excuse of "What do you expect? Final Cut's only $1300 and now Final Touch is free!" That excuse is completely lame and if you are going to make an application to be used by professionals, it should work professionally. Final Cut Pro is used by professionals in professional environments and judging from your Cow Bio you know that as well as anyone.

WE all know that Apple hardware is Final Cut's pimp, after all they are still a hardware company, no? . While FCP is hard at work out on the corner, hardware is sitting back, getting faster, stronger and collecting more and better looking features and turning them out, for better or for worse. Apple is going to get a bunch of my hard earned money this year from an upgrade, I have waited long enough and it is long overdue for me to update the big box and move to an all intel backbone. Apple's plan has worked and I am not mad at them for it, but it's 'messed up' that those more and better looking features aren't quite as pretty as expected. It's the principle of it that makes me chuckle. It's as if someone is saying, "Here's this awesome application that the Cohen Brothers didn't use to make Oh Brother, but when it goes to broadcast, high contrast images are rendered wrong! Have fun and don't forget that we only charged you $500 for it, what do you expect?"

Why do you think AJA is waiting until July to release the ioHD? I would wager that it's not ready yet, and when Apple releases a tool to help you achieve broadcast legal values and that's the feature that doesn't work so well, I think it'd be best to wait to release it, no matter how much Final Touch used to cost and how little Apple is charging for it now. And speaking of cost, since you keep mentioning the magic $25K I highly doubt that the FInal Touch folks sold 800,000 seats of FT 2K as Apple stands to do (I understand that not all 800,000 registered users are going to upgrade at once, but you get my point). Simple math would show that Apple doesn't HAVE to sell Color for $25K, but it's not about the money, it's about the money.

Funny enough I just now got my email about my upgrade is shipping. I am glad that Apple has released this information so I don't waste anytime installing/testing it until things get a bit more sorted.

Sorry about the rant, Jerry, and I mean no personal attack.

Jeremy


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Andy Mees
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 12:52:51 am

[JeremyG] "It just seems that the whole point of putting $25,000 grading software in Final Cut Studio that is used for broadcast would be to make sure that the output was legal, is all. "


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Jeremy.

I do beleive the point that Jerry was making, and made very well, is that Color is not, as you maintain, for making your show broadcst legal.

It seems to me that grading is all about enhancing the images that were captured, manipulating them to better reflect the mood, or a look or feel that the DOP was aiming for. Yes, also for correcting errors to a minor extent, but to my mind its not at all about making something broadcast legal. (Frankly it should have been shot legal in the first place.)

Color was not bought and incorporated in the FCS suite as some kind of steroidal 3-way color corrector come broadcast sfae filter. Both of those filters still have their place. For instance, if I want to put a bug on something, I'm not going to do it in Shake. If I need to bring down the levels on something that was shot a bit hot I'm not going to send it to Color.

I appreciate that we're all pro's here to a lesser or greater extent, and that we all understand what the different components of the suite are for. Obviously nobody likes buggy software! But it seems there is a level of over-reaction going on here that is out of proportion to the "issue" at hand.





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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 11:00:34 am

[Andy Mees] "I do beleive the point that Jerry was making, and made very well, is that Color is not, as you maintain, for making your show broadcst legal."

Actually it is. That's one of the main points of what was formerly Final Touch HD and one of the reasons why we paid $5,000 for the software over a year ago. You set the Floor and Ceiling and forget about it. Final Touch kept your show within those parameters no matter what you did with the grading. I could make an image so bright it would really make you wince, but it was legal.

Final Touch was the ultimate broadcast safe filter in addition to being an incredible grading tool. So yes, it IS supposed to make any show broadcast legal.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Andy Mees
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 11:52:51 am

Well I'd never have thought that was a primary function although of course one wouldn't want to grade something so it were illegal.

I stand corrected Walter. apologies Jeremy.


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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 11:56:27 am

[Andy Mees] "Well I'd never have thought that was a primary function although of course one wouldn't want to grade something so it were illegal."

When you get it, you'll see it right in the Project Settings (or maybe the Project Pref) but there's a Floor and Ceiling Setting. After reading Michael Sandness' post in Color, it appears that if you set the Ceiling to 99 it should perform as advertised.

That's the beauty of this app and one of the reasons why we were so happy to get Final Touch HD in the shop initially. There isn't the concept of a "Broadcast Safe Filter" that you apply when you done grading. You simply set the minimum / maximum levels BEFORE you even start and then just forget about it. Grade to your heart's content knowing that whatever you do, it's legal.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Andy Mees
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 12:02:58 pm

[walter biscardi] "When you get it ..."

Ahhh there's the rub :-) Thanks for clarifying for me, am reading Michael's post now.
Cheers
Andy


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JeremyG
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 4:53:35 pm

[Andy Mees] "I do beleive the point that Jerry was making, and made very well, is that Color is not, as you maintain, for making your show broadcst legal."

From the color manual preface:

"Color has the tools that professional colorists demand, including:
Primary color correction using three-way color balance and contrast controls with
individual shadow, midtone, and highlight control
Curve controls for detailed color and luma channel adjustments
Up to eight secondary color correction operations per shot with HSL qualifiers,
vignettes, user shapes, and separate adjustments for the inside and outside of each
secondary
Color FX node-based effects for creating custom color effects
Pan & Scan effects
Motion tracking that can be used to animate vignettes, user shapes, and other effects
Broadcast legal settings to guarantee adherence to quality control standards
Support for color-correction-specific control surfaces
And much, much more"




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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 21, 2007 at 11:34:46 am

[JeremyG] "From the color manual preface:"

[JeremyG] "Broadcast legal settings to guarantee adherence to quality control standards"

And in response to Michael Sandness' post in the Color forum, excellent by the way, I've been reading the Color Manual and it takes this point one step further on Page 102.

The broadcast safe parameters can be set to match the required QC guidelines. When enabled, they guarantee that your program will not exceed these standards while you monitor your program and when you render the finally corrected media.

Hopefully I'll have a lot more information on Color by the end of the day today.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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jason levy
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 20, 2007 at 3:24:39 am

[Jerry Hofmann] "Color is grading software, not color correction software."

Could you explain the distinction to me?

thanks,

jason



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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:33:22 pm

[JeremyG] "Color doesn't support anamorphic SD and outputs illegal values."

Absolutely it does because you can grade film. But you can set the floor and ceiling to be whatever you want it to be, generally I set 0 and 99. Are you saying the notes claim even if you set for a ceiling of 99 it can still output above 100?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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gary adcock
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 8:10:09 pm

[walter biscardi] "Are you saying the notes claim even if you set for a ceiling of 99 it can still output above 100?"

Not the way I read it, it gives a such a specific value to enter it has to be a carry over from Final Touch.

The default values of the Ceiling IRE and Floor IRE parameters of the Broadcast Safe settings do not limit the video signal as expected. To limit luma at 100 IRE, the Ceiling IRE parameter should be set to 99.3337357. To limit luma at 0 IRE, the Floor IRE parameter should be set to 1.187550.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 8:12:21 pm

[gary adcock] "Not the way I read it, it gives a such a specific value to enter it has to be a carry over from Final Touch."

What about this part?

The borders of extremely high-contrast features (such as the boundaries of specular highlights and computer-generated graphics) may exhibit spikes over 100 and under 0 when outputting to external video scopes, despite the Broadcast Safe settings you


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:34:43 pm

You edit in a drop frame sequence, so you get the proper timing...

THEN you change that sequence's TC to non drop, export to Color, then send back to FCP... this will open a new project file containing the graded sequence.

THEN change it back to drop.... or not. Hey, the actual time of the show isn't going to be affected at any rate, and if you lay it back to tape, even if it stayed non drop, it will record to a drop frame tape and be exactly right...

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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walter biscardi
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:39:48 pm

[Jerry Hofmann] "You edit in a drop frame sequence, so you get the proper timing...

THEN you change that sequence's TC to non drop, export to Color, then send back to FCP... this will open a new project file containing the graded sequence.

THEN change it back to drop.... or not. Hey, the actual time of the show isn't going to be affected at any rate, and if you lay it back to tape, even if it stayed non drop, it will record to a drop frame tape and be exactly right..."


All of that is pretty dumb really, sorry Jerry. FCP supports Drop Frame, Color does not. VERY lame.


Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Shane Ross
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 6:47:00 pm

OK Jerry...that sounds pretty straightforward and doable. I can handle that.



Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net


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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 7:01:52 pm

Not quite. You can't change the timebase of a sequence once footage has been added to it. So, the workflow really goes:

1. Get show to time.
2. Make a new sequence with all the same settings, except non drop.
3. Copy and paste all footage from your drop sequence to your non drop.
4. Send the non drop to Color
5. Grade your sequence and send it back to Final Cut.
6. Copy your final media from your graded non-drop sequence back to your drop sequence.

Yes, you can output to a drop-frame tape from step 5 and your show will be to time on the tape, but what if you need to make changes later? I'd want to get everything set back to what it's supposed to be before I save and close the project for a while, rather than trying to remember that I left the sequence in non-drop. Still doable...but I think the question is just "Why, Apple, Why?" For anyone that used the software when it was still Final Touch... did these problems exist, or were they created when Apple tried to work them into the Studio integrated workflow?

-Ben


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John Pale
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 7:40:32 pm

[Ben Insler] "Not quite. You can't change the timebase of a sequence once footage has been added to it. So, the workflow really goes:"

Yes. You can. You can switch from drop to non-drop at will, at any time. Thats not the same as changing timebase, which refers to frame rate. Non-drop and drop are the same frame rate.

Its a dumb bug, but its easy to work around.



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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 7:55:55 pm

Interesting. Are you talking about FCP 6?


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John Pale
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 8:31:02 pm

No. FCP 5.1.4. I just did it to make sure I wasn't on crack. You can change the sequence from non-drop to drop in your sequence settings with a checkbox without problem, at any time. You don't need to make all kinds of duplicate sequences unless you want to.


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Ben Insler
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 8:41:09 pm

You're right. I was thinking Editing Timebase in the Sequence Settings -> General Tab. The timebase can't be changed, but drop frame timecode display can be. Great catch. My apologies.

-Ben


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Yikes - Color only supports non-drop TC
on May 18, 2007 at 10:41:23 pm

Your not changing the timebase... you're changing a frame Lable/counting system... timecode.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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Russell Lasson
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 18, 2007 at 6:21:28 pm

Found it:

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Color_1.0_User_Manual.pdf

-Russ


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Steve Connor
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 18, 2007 at 7:25:26 pm

I guess Apple haven't had the code long enough to fix all the (Extremely large) bugs. Hopefully it will get a fix when iPhone and the new OS are out and there are more resources to throw at it.

It'll take me that long to figure out how to use it anyway. :)


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Zak Mussig
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 18, 2007 at 7:58:49 pm

Wow.... that's quite a set of release notes. At least the first release of Photoshop CS3 was tagged "beta". This will be a great product and a huge asset when it's worthy of a whole version number.


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Kevin Wild
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 19, 2007 at 3:40:27 am

I got mine today. I have to admit, opening color for the first time is a bit daunting. But one thing you can't help but notice is how UN-APPLE it looks. The text on the opening screen is horrendously pc/linux looking or something. Not Apple at all.


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walter biscardi
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 19, 2007 at 9:54:03 am

[Kevin Wild] "I got mine today. I have to admit, opening color for the first time is a bit daunting. But one thing you can't help but notice is how UN-APPLE it looks. The text on the opening screen is horrendously pc/linux looking or something. Not Apple at all."

Yes, because it wasn't designed as an Apple product at all when it was first created. But don't let that scare you. Just get in and start using it. One thing I wish Apple would do is offer that dark grey background screen for all the apps because when you're trying to color grade in Final Cut Pro, the screens are just way too bright with all the light grey almost white interface. Color's dark interface is perfect for using when CC'ing.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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piper
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 19, 2007 at 5:57:56 pm

Walter,

I couldn't agree more. When working in FCP, I actually have a piece of foamcore I have to place in front of my second monitor (where I keep the bins) to knock down the brightness so I can see the image properly on my grading monitor.

As an example of this done right, Apple's Aperture photo editing program has an excellent "dark" user interface that allows me to grade the photos without the distraction of bright backgrounds.

Gary



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Jerry Hofmann
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 19, 2007 at 3:51:06 am

I think you expect too much. It's not a plug in color corrector.... it's grading software and comes from the film workflow paradigm. More sophisicated than any other NLE's color manipulatoin software to boot. Making it into a slick Cocoa application ala Motion ain't easy, and Apple's only had it for a few months... this will take years to do I think.

This software was 25k, Apple rolls it into Studio 2 for free and you bash it?

aw com'on....

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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walter biscardi
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 19, 2007 at 10:39:50 am

[Jerry Hofmann] "Making it into a slick Cocoa application ala Motion ain't easy, and Apple's only had it for a few months... this will take years to do I think."

I honestly hope they don't change the background color of it though. Keep it dark and give us an option in Final Cut Pro to make the background color dark too.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 20, 2007 at 12:55:59 pm

I don't see that happening... the color bkg is just right now... they'd not have to change that to make it Cocoa don't think... But they'd have to start over for sure...

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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walter biscardi
READ THIS!
on May 19, 2007 at 10:38:54 am

An excellent post by Michael Sandness in the Color forum to bring some sanity back to all our lives.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/223/1280?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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pixeldustfilms
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 20, 2007 at 3:46:32 pm

Hey all,

Thanks for the heads-up on Color...it's a little daunting at first, as I've been doing all my Color grading in After Effects...

Here's a question:

I've brought some HDV footage into Color, made my changes, and then rendered it out...but somewhere along the line, my footage is going from 16:9 to 4:3...I have the setup correct in that it's HDV1060i 1920 x 1080. The rendered film ends up at 1440 x 1080...

Any thoughts on where I'm going wrong?

Thanks again!

Gino


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JP Owens
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 20, 2007 at 5:23:18 pm

I don't believe HDV rendering is supported in COLOR, at least according to the Apple description pages. Has something to do with the mpg nature of the codec...

Also, HDV is native 1440x1080, so its just the anamorphic nature of the format that is being returned. You could probably fix that in the FCP sequence.

One thing to do when sending non-square material to COLOR (for sure in the former Final Touch) is to check the Geometry room... you'll see why, if you do it. If you have a project setting mismatch, it will show up there.

JPO









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walter biscardi
Re: WARNING TO NEW COLOR USERS
on May 20, 2007 at 6:36:47 pm

[pixeldustfilms] ".I have the setup correct in that it's HDV1060i 1920 x 1080. The rendered film ends up at 1440 x 1080..."

That's all correct. Your HDV footage is really 1440x1080 anamorphic, that's how the format shoots. FCP automatically scales it back out to 1920 in realtime during playback. Same with DVCPro HD.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.

All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html

Read my blog! http://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi


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