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Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage

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Emily Thwaites
Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 6:09:37 pm

We are loading tapes from the 1200A deck via Blackmagic to FCP.
I've never dealt with 720 before and am having difficulty logging and digitizing this stuff.

Can someone please tell me which settings I'm supposed to be using?
Do the settings have to be switched when the FPS switch from 40 to 60?

There doesn't seem to be a 40Hz setting for the 40FPS footage. When I use 23.98-8bit, FCP only captures 1/2 of the footage that was logged. When I use 59.94Hz-8bit, it captures more than was logged but looks sped up.

Thanks for your help!

Emily


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bogiesan
Re: Please close all threads
on Oct 3, 2005 at 6:31:05 pm

Emily,
Sorry, I don't an answer for you.
Lots of folks are going to be watching this thread here an on all of the other forums where you may have placed it besides apple.com. If you get a workable answer, please go back to all of the other forums and post what worked.

bogiesan



This is my standard sigfile so do not take it personally: "For crying out loud, read the freakin' manual."


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tony salgado
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 7:35:35 pm



Are you capturing via firewire or HDSDI?

Are your capture settings at 24 or 59.94P?

What is your sequence setting at 24P,30P or 59.94? You have to decide what sequence timebase you want to work at because when you use the FRC plugin you will end up with a different temporal result depending on the sequence time base chosen.

A tip if the camera was primarily set at 24P and occassionally some other off speed frame rates were used then work in a 24P sequence.

When you capture the 24P material you can reverse the 3:2 during digitizing thereby capturing only the native 24P frames but you must specify the proper capture settings (720/24P not 720/59.94). Or you could capture everything at 720/59.94 and then use the FRC to extract all the extra frames including the 24P as well as all the other frame rates chosen. It will take more time to use the FRC plugin but may be simplier for your workflow.

However if you want to use undercranked or overcranked footage you must capture at 720/59.94 and then use the FRC plugin to remove the extra frames.

Before you start anything you must make sure you have downloaded the DVCPRO HD components as well as the FRC plugin. Both are available for download by visiting the Panasonic 1200A webpage and look for the page which has the links to the two downloads needed.

Be aware to make sure you are using the right OSX version as well as Quicktime.
Using a fast G5 CPU makes a major difference when using the FRC plugin. A dual 2.7 G5 is quite fast when using the FRC plugin.

Lastly you need to make sure you have all the 1200A menus set correctly depending on how you are capturing etc. Read the 1200A manual for specific menu settings.



Tony Salgado


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Emily Thwaites
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 8:32:14 pm

We were taking it in via a Blackmagic Card.
Should we switch to Firewire?

Most of the footage was shot at 40fps and some at 60fps.
we don't know which setting to capture at or which sequence setting to use.

we just went to the panasonic website and will download the plugins and components.

Emily


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VideoManSF
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 8:51:57 pm

Here : http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/dvcpro_hd_workflow_balis.html

VM


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Emily Thwaites
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 9:11:43 pm

ok, we're getting close.

But because our scriptnotes mostly say 40fps and 60fps (nothing was shot at 24), should we bring in our footage in at 23.98, 29.97 or 59.94?

And should our sequence preset be 23.98, 29.97 or 59.94?



Emily


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tony salgado
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 3, 2005 at 9:34:48 pm



Emily,


Generally the reason to shoot at 40 or 60 is for slo mo playback at 24P (which is actually 23.98).

Unless the program did not need a "filmic" look then shooting at 60 would be standard assuming you are not working in a PAL country.
If this is the case 40 fps would not be slo mo but actually fast playback at 60.
I don't want to make any assumptions so all I can recommend is verifying what actual frame rates were recorded by conducting the following test with the 1200A.

You can verify what the actual frame rate recorded was by scrolling thru the counter button on the front of the 1200A and find the user bit information display which will show that frame rate. Do this step when playing back the footage, even if you fast fwd or rewind the user bit frame rate information will change once it see a different frame rate.

You will know you are at the right user bit display when you see 24 or other frame rate displayed second from the right and it will remain constant until a frame rate change is made. Other displays are timecode, format, control track, etc.

If indeed you did shoot at 60P then capture at 59.94 and edit in a 59.94 sequence.

Use the FRC to deal with the 40P clips.

If your footage was shot at 24P then capture at 720/24 which will do a reverse 3:2 during the capture (firewire or HDSDI) or capture at 720/59.94 and use the FRC to do the reverse 3:2. Either method will work. Using the FRC as the second step is more time consuming for 24P footage but is necessary for off speed footage.

If you don't want to switch back and forth you can capture all the footage at 720/59.94 and then use the FRC to remove all the extra frames for the 24 and 40P material.


Firewire capture is great to preserve the native dvcpro HD codec but the vtr transport is very slow. I advise capturing the video via firewire but using RS-422 vtr control via your blackmagic card. You may have to figure out what the tc offset needs to be when using the blackmagic card for deck control. Contact Blackmagic for the specific details.

If you capture via firewire make sure your capture settings are correct for device control as well as the capture codec settings.

Have you checked your OSX version and QT version as well?

What version of FCP are you using.

What type of raid or harddrives are you using.



Tony Salgado






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Emily Thwaites
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 4, 2005 at 12:13:59 am

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the info.
We have FCP 4.5, and a Raid drive.
I went back and checked the counter to confirm that they shot in 40fps & 60fps

When I tried bringing this stuff in via the Blackmagic 59.94 setting, it would digitize way past my out point and into
the next scene. When I tried digitizing it at the Blackmagic 23.98 setting, it would digitize 1/2 of what I logged.
Fortunately, now that I've switched to firewire - this problem has stopped.

This project will be finished for HD viewing.

I'm bring in the 40fps & the 60fps footage at the "DVCPRO HD 720p 60 48khz" setting via firewire.
I will set my sequence setting to 23.98.
Then I will take each clip and run it through the FRC - Frame Rate Converter at 23.98 which will
create a new clip to use for editing.

Is this correct for something to be finished in HD?

Emily


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tony salgado
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 4, 2005 at 2:36:27 am



Emily,


If indeed the footage is actually 60P (which is really 59.94P if the on board vtr was set to 59.94 HZ) then you do not want to edit in a 23.98 timeline.
I am still confused as to if you actually have any 24P footage based on your last response.

If all the footage is 60P then you will have to edit in a 59.94 timeline. It get alot more complicated when trying to deal with frame rate conversion from native 60P (meaning no 3:2 was added during the original recording) to 24P. There are third party fcp filters to deal with this if so needed.

If you edit in a 59.94 sequence you can still use the the FRC for the 40fps clips as the FRC plugin allows using it with 24,30p and 59.94P sequences.

The issue of digitizing and capturing only half of what you logged has to do with the on the fly 3:2 removal.

HD viewing can refer to alot of different applications. I take this to mean you were not planning to do a film out? Does your final output need to be 720P or 1080i.

What are the delivery spec's for your project.

You may end up having to cross convert at some point if 720P is not the final delivery format.



Tony Salgado

Tony Salgado


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Emily Thwaites
Re: Loading 720i 40fps & 60fps footage
on Oct 18, 2005 at 2:56:25 pm

Hi Tony,
Just wanted to give you an update on 2 hicups we encountered.

1. Don't put the clips in a bin and then try to use the frame rate converter. They must be at the highest level.

2. Don't use backslashes or "&" in the name of the clip. The frame rate converter will give you an error message.

Oh, and in the end I edited the clips into a 23.98 timeline and the footage looked really good.

I admit I am still left a bit baffled by this experience. For instance, I
needed to burn our cuts to a dvd, but after exporting them as quicktime
movies they were distorted in dvd studio pro 3. We ended up cutting them
into a 4:3 project and exporting them that way, but who knows if that's the
only way to do it.

Emily


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