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prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering

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raju bhai
prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 9:52:04 am

Hi,

I am using FCP7

I have a video that i transcoded to prores 422(LT). I have a separate audio file that i am dropping into the timeline. I exported the audio at 48khz 24bit so it would be compatible with FCP7. However, when i drop the audio clip into the timeline, it still needs rendering!

So i checked the sequence settings, and it was set to 16bit, so i changed the audio bitrate in the sequence setting to 24bit but even then the audio still requires rendering.

So, to try to solve it, I re-exported the audio in 16bit instead and dropped it into the timeline, keeping the sequence setting at 48khz 16bit, and again it still requires rendering. Why is this?

It gets annoying because any simple edit i do to the audio on the timeline, such as just changing the clip volume, requires rendering every time.
Please let me know how to make the audio file compatible to the video so there is no rendering required, THANKS.


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Tom Matthies
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 3:13:08 pm

What file format is the audio?
AIFF, Mp3, WAV??

Not my monkeys. Not my circus.


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 6:22:10 pm

wav


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Shane Ross
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 7:31:10 pm

Try converting to 16 bit...see if that does it.

Now...WAV....but not BROADCAST WAV? FCP works with AIFF and broadcast WAV...but not regular WAV files.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 8:45:30 pm

i don't believe it's "broadcast wav" as i had exported the track from a regular DAW called Ableton Live. So it's just a regular song wav file. But i don't believe i had this rendering problem with the audio in the past.

As far as 16 bit, yes i already tried that. I exported both a 16bit as well as a 24bit file, both 48khz, and both versions ran into the same issue.

I wonder if the audio that already comes attached with the video on the timeline could be mismatching with the wav file audio I'm importing?

I thought it should be fine because the video clip, while it was originally an mp4, i had transcoded it to prores 422 LT, and just used the default settings.

Any other ideas?


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 9:58:59 pm

the only 2 options Ableton gives for export are AIFF or WAV.


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 6, 2018 at 10:58:12 pm

My setup is very basic on this project. i have a video of someone talking and so the video and audio of that person talking are together in one clip. I transcoded that to prores 422 LT.

The only other element is that I am importing a song into the timeline and going to have that play in the background of the video and talking. Very simple, simplest thing i've ever done.
But I need the ability to do a lot of cutting and pasting of the audio track and change the volume envelope. And it is requiring me to render for anything i do from the first time i just drop the audio clip into the timeline.

I watched Walter Biscardi's tutorial on how to match the clips with the sequence setting so there aren't these rendering issues. When i dropped the video clip into the timeline FCP asked if i want to change sequence setting to that of the clip and i said yes. I checked and the video clips's settings are indeed the same as the sequence settings.

So now i went to item properties -> format for the imported audio clip. For the audio clip there is no frame rate, size, compressor or aspect ratio. It's just a wav audio clip. And the sampling rate and bit depth are the same as those on the sequence settings, which in this case is 48khz and 16bit. So seems to be fine there. The only difference I can see is the DATA RATE between the video clip's audio (786.9 k/sec) and the imported audio wav file (187.5 k/sec) . I don't know if this should be the same. There is no setting for DATA RATE on the sequence settings. I find it only when i look at the item properties for the individual clips.

On the sequence settings there is a tab called video processing with options for YUV rendering, i don't know what all that is or if that has something to do with the rendering issue I am having. Currently mine is set at "Render in 8bit YUV".

OK I hope someone can please shed light on this issue for me so i can get started with the editing of this project.
thank you


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 7, 2018 at 3:11:37 pm

hi Shane,

I did the AIFF file this time, but same issue, still needs to be rendered.

There are no differences between the imported audio file and the sequence settings. And the only difference between the imported audio file and the video clip audio (under individual clip item properties) is in the data rate. But no mention of data rate when i viewed Biscardi's tutorial. I don't know if different data rates is an issue or not. And doesn't seem to be a "data rate" option in the sequence settings.


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Shane Ross
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 7, 2018 at 4:10:23 pm

Hmmmm....question. How many audio tracks do you have on this project? If you have more than 8, go into the USER PREFERENCES (in the FINAL CUT PRO menu) and change the REALTIME MIXING number from 8 to like 32...or 64. Dunno why it defaults to 8, but you can have up to 99 in realtime.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 7, 2018 at 4:29:37 pm

simple project, i have only 4 audio tracks total (i.e. 2 stereo audio tracks). One stereo pair came attached with the video clip & the other pair is the AIFF file i am importing.


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 8, 2018 at 9:43:55 pm

I Right-clicked on sequence and checked items properties and it says 32-bit floating point!

I went back to my transcode settings which were to transcode to default settings of prores 422 LT, in which i double checked and it says transcoding to 16bit. When I checked item properties of the video clip's audio track it says 16. And the sequence settings say 16bit as well. So then why do the item properties for the sequence say 32bit floating when i right clicked on it? It should say 16bit, right?

I DON"T UNDERSTAND WHAT"S GOING ON.

Agan, my issue is that i imported a 48khz 16bit AIFF into the timeline and any edits i do are requiring rendering.


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Nick Meyers
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 11, 2018 at 4:39:27 am

it's all very strange.

FCP can play AIFF and WAV quite happily
simple mis-matches, like a 16bit audio file in a 24 bit sequence would NOT require rendering.

you could trash your FCP preferences and see if that helps.

otherwise, i'd say there;s something wrong with the files from Ableton.
I have no experience with Ableton, so can't help there.

one more thing to check: what is your sequence preset?
does is have the same frame-rate as the material you are working with?
it helps if it does, especially with audio sync.
however, again this would not cause your audio to need rendering.

as i can't help too much getting to the bottom of the problem, as an alternative i would suggest:

set the appropriate sequence preset.
delete all audio or start a new project.
re-import the 24bit files
batch export them from FCP to AIFF or WAV
then bring those new files into FCP.



nick


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Michael Gissing
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 11, 2018 at 5:28:06 am

FCP sequence uses 32 bit float for audio processing so that is normal for the sequence settings. It isn't the cause of the rendering. There must be something else about those files that FCP doesn't like and it is possibly in the metatdata coming from Abelton.

Are you sure it is the audio that needs rendering? Does it beep when unrendered? It has been a long time since I needed to use FCP7 and rarely did the audio need rendering.


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 11, 2018 at 2:39:11 pm

yeah, the only differences i could see in the settings was
1) the 32 bit float (thanks Michael for confirming that this is ok!)
and
2) the data rate difference btw the imported audio and the video clip audio (still not sure if this could be a cause for rendering issue or if it is normal)

SO, yes Nick, this is weird indeed. And Michael, Nick, I know it's not an issue with Ableton. The reason being is that i've used Ableton audio files before in FCP7 and never had an issue. The only difference betw then and now is that then my video clips were full 1080 frame size and now the video i am using is small 640x360 frame size, and while i had transcoded to prores 422 in the past, this time, since i am using lower quality video, i transcoded to prores 422 LT instead. But my sequence settings are fully setup to match the new video. So i really don't see where the issue could be.

Nick I like your suggestion to trash preferences, but i watched the Larry Jordan video where he said only trash them if it really is an issue. I'm not sure in this case, but perhaps it's worth a shot?

And yeah, Michael, the sequence only needs rendering when i drop the ableton audio file in. When i import it into the timeline, 2 red render lines appear at top.


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Nick Meyers
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 11, 2018 at 11:04:05 pm

[raju bhai] "the video i am using is small 640x360 frame size ... But my sequence settings are fully setup to match the new video"

ok , i sont think this is a standard FCP sequence setting,
so that *could* affect RT [performance, but i would guess only for the video.

try changing your sequence settings to oe of the offered ones, see what happens.
my guess is it will remain the same.

[raju bhai] "Larry Jordan video where he said only trash them if it really is an issue."

a little alarmist perhaps.
you just have to re-set your preferences.
make sure you have things like keyboard layout saved if you have modified it.

[raju bhai] "the sequence only needs rendering when i drop the ableton audio file in. When i import it into the timeline, 2 red render lines appear at top."

why 2 lines i wonder?
that would imply video and audio renders required
are you getting the audio beeps that Michael asked about?


nick


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raju bhai
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 12, 2018 at 1:35:40 am

[nick meyers] "ok , i sont think this is a standard FCP sequence setting,
so that *could* affect RT [performance, but i would guess only for the video.

try changing your sequence settings to oe of the offered ones, see what happens.
my guess is it will remain the same."


I don't know which standard setting to select, it seems none of them match my video clip properties. For instance there is nothing in the standard FCP seq settings that is prores LT and 640x480 frame rate. I also tried changing the aspect ratio in seq settings to standard NTSC 3:2 and that didn't work either. Additionally, when i dropped the video in it says there are no matching sequence settings so it creates the sequence with the matching setting for me.

As far as the audio beeping, yes it is beeping. And when i checked again it isn't 2 red render lines but 1 red line and 1 that is either purple or blue or grey (hard to tell the exact color of that other render line).


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Shane Ross
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 12, 2018 at 1:44:37 am

FCP 7 was designed to work with broadcast standard formats. 640x360, even as ProRes LT...does not fit any broadcast standard. Your best option would be to convert that to 720x480 DV...or 720x486 ProRes.

Yeah, you are working with a web sized video in an edit app not designed for cutting web sized video...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Nick Meyers
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 12, 2018 at 1:45:26 am

[raju bhai] "when i dropped the video in it says there are no matching sequence settings so it creates the sequence with the matching setting for me."

exactly, so FCP is working outside of it;s comfort zone.

chose a sequence preset that matches your clips quite close.
same frame rate of course,
and try 1280x720 as that's sure pixels e your video is.

nevertheless i doubt this will change things, and i suggest that the files from Ableton are at fault for whatever reason.
to test, make a new sequence of ANY flavour, and drop the audio in.
re-procesing the files thru FCP or compressor should be tried, just see if it works/


[raju bhai] " red line and 1 that is either purple or blue or grey"

either the default great line meaning no rendering requited
or the steely blue-grey line which means there is some slight mis-match, but FCP can deal with it, and play back a "full quality" image.


nick


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Michael Gissing
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 12, 2018 at 1:50:41 am

My thought is the sequence settings are not a standard pixel aspect that FCP is happy with hence the rendering. The audio just makes it worse. I'll bet the audio files are fine in any FCP broadcast standard sequence. The non standard sequence is the issue.

When transcoding to ProRes, a standard pixel size needed like 720 x 486 to be chosen as Shane has pointed out.


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Nick Meyers
Re: prores 422(LT) with 48khz audio still requires rendering
on Jun 12, 2018 at 1:55:17 am

and try 1280x720 as that's square pixels, same as your video is.

(couldn't edit my typo in orig post)


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