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Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro

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Mike Bugera
Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 9:11:27 pm

I know there's a Red Giant plugin forum but I'm choosing to ask this here, as I'm using it with FCP 7 on my MacBook Pro 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7.

We just bought Primatte Keyer Pro for a particularly tough green screen interview with frizzy hair. Shot on a KiPRO as ProRes 422 1080i and brought into FCP. Keys perfectly with no effort except for two problems: Periodically throughout the 6 minute clip (yeah, render times are so much fun on this length of a clip!) a tiny circle of light will flash by the side of his head. Also, the one tuft of hair on the back of his head will suddenly become fuller, then pop back to the original key.

I've tried dialing in almost all the settings (CLEAN BG AREA, Deartifacting, Enable Matte, Alpha Cleaner, etc...), to no avail.


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 9:57:10 pm

I wonder if you could add an edit where the bad things are happening say a second or so on either side of the ugly, then simply re-render or re adjust that portion...

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Mike Bugera
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 10:14:24 pm

I've actually done that/doing that. But I've found that even subtle changes can result in not so subtle shifts in appearance at the cut point. The main problem is that I have to render the whole thing, to the tune of 4 hours, to be able to see these little pops and flutters. Would be nice to know what's going on before so I could make the correct changes and be done with it.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 10:11:49 pm

You may not be able to accomplish this key with just one layer. You may need to do it with two layers: one where just the hair is keyed, and another for just the subject.

It also involves animating a garbage mask to isolate the hair, and another for the subject. It's not much fun, I fear.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mike Bugera
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 10:21:17 pm

Actually, that's why we got the plugin. I was getting tired of doing that with not great results. The plugin gives an absolutely perfect key without the need to do all the multiple layers/garbage mattes, but those intermittent flutters are difficult to resolve. And I don't know that they're going to be there or where they're going to show up until I render it and check it 4 hours later.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 22, 2012 at 10:36:29 pm

I don't use FCP for this kind of job, I use After Effects with its own fine keyer, Keylight. Okay, let me rephrase that: I would NEVER use FCP for this kind of job.

In your situation, you might be able to take the shot into Motion, which may also be able to use your new keying plugin, and get better results. Motion allows you to scrub through the shot to locate trouble spots.

If you're resolved to do it in FCP, here's a question: is FCP capable of creating feathered masks? I'd animate one on the subject layer garbage mask, then place it above the hair layer.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 23, 2012 at 3:44:39 am

I have to agree with David. I don't use FCP for keys of any kind either. FWIW, the keyer in FCP X blows FCP 7's way outta water.

That said, have you tried Motion's keyer? At least you own that...

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Mike Bugera
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 23, 2012 at 4:47:56 pm

Yes, I've tried Motion's Primatte RT keyer. Still wasn't even close to doing the job for the clip we had. I gave up on trying to key this clip using anything that came with FC Studio. That's why we spent $500 on Red Giant's Primatte Keyer Pro.

Primatte Keyer Pro cuts the most perfect key I've seen, but I'm getting periodic hits of white on the side of his head. That's what I'm trying to find out about. Has anyone else encountered this problem with Primatte Keyer Pro? If so, what did you do about it.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 23, 2012 at 5:58:20 pm

I'm afraid you may not get the speedy response about Primatte Pro you probably seek; I'm not aware of many people in this forum who use it regularly.

That's why I brought up Motion: it may indeed see the plugin, you can scrub through through the layer and more easily find those flashes. You may even be able to fix them in a single layer.

If a single layer doesn't cut it, you can at least split the layer just before & after the flash, duplicate the layer, mask out the hair on the upper layer and fix the flash on the lower layer. It's a lot easier than animating a mask throughout the shot.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Mike Bugera
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Feb 23, 2012 at 9:06:14 pm

Yeah, pretty much anything is easier than animating the mask. I have a support ticket in with Red Giant so we'll see what they say.


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mike wavrecan
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Aug 14, 2012 at 10:05:28 pm

Hello,
I'm running into the same problem on a tight deadline show. I was wondering if you had any great words of wisdom with the red giant ticket. Would be interested in knowing your workflow on this one as this is being quite the pain... and we bought RG Primatte Keyer Pro for the same reason.

Thanks!


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Tony Pfau
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Sep 25, 2013 at 3:40:19 am

I was beginning to think it was only me that couldn't get the expensive keyer to work. Exactly the nightmare I've been battling for 4 days. Finally down to rendering out a 4444 w alpha and trying to animate, rotobrush tracke matte etc etc on the aberrations. I have yet to be able to pull a clean render with primatte keyer on any system. The plugin hasn't been updated since last June 12 & only for cs6 install.

I have tried most everything, using rd3, different settings, 4444' uncompressed, nothing but disappointment every time. I'm going to work on painting or masking the blotches which appear sometime to be like a chunk of the matte just moved on the x axis, other times, it bites right into the matte. I haven't had any luck with my former i7 2.2 with 6750m or my retina 2.8 w 650m both cards with 1gb, ridiculous long render time & for something that won't work.

It artifacts on small parts, big parts of an image cut to key, but mainly around areas of fine detail. for now it's a hi-con cleanup or animating masks.

Thing is primatte is the only thing I've found to deal with frizzy green soaked hair, but it can't get a clean render.

I realize this post is a year old, but appears to be about the only one dealing with this issue. It is definitely a plug-in issue. Will post back if I discover anything that works.

Tony Pfau
Editor / Director-Producer
http://avpfilms.net


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Red Giant Primatte Keyer Pro
on Sep 25, 2013 at 3:46:49 pm

Camera? Acquisition codec? Both influence a key's quality.

I'll assume both good chroma key lighting practices and adequate background-subject separation to avoid undue spill.

Dave LaRonde
Former Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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