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ExFAT - ProDrive woes...

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tad newberry
ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 16, 2011 at 9:57:30 pm

i sent (3) ExFAT formatted drives to a client with a PC. he sent them back saying he couldn't read any of them. i tested them today on my PC's. Here is what i found - the (2) Passports showed up fine in my Netbook PC running Windows 7 Starter. But plugging in the SimpleTech ProDrive yielded nothing...though when i would pull the USB cable out of the netbook it would ask if i wanted to format the drive (that was no longer connected).

plugging them all into my Mac, it read the Passports fine, but the ProDrive asked to be initialized. So i went to Disk Utility, did a verified (which said it needed to be repaired), it repaired fine, then showed up fine on the desktop. Files intact. Took the same USB cable out of Mac into the Netbook...nothing. USB back to the Mac - and it asked to be initialized again! Verified, repaired, and it showed up fine again.

Anyone know what gives here??? I'm very confused as to how to get him some drives where he can at least see the files, though i know he won't be able to play all the QTs, he should be able to know which files are there and can read image files and docs.

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 16, 2011 at 10:23:04 pm

Purchase MacDrive for them and use HFS (Mac) formatted drives:

http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive

Jeremy


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David Roth Weiss
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 16, 2011 at 10:58:14 pm

I agree with Jeremy. Having tired every alternative, the combination of Mac formatted drives and MacDrive is the only seamless solution that works all the time on the PC side.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 16, 2011 at 11:04:05 pm

Alrighty...that sounds good, but i'm just curious why the PC is seeing the Passport drives with no problem, but not the ProDrive...and that other funky thing with the ProDrive having to be verified and repaired every time it is taken from the PC to the Mac???

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 16, 2011 at 11:13:24 pm

Gremlins.


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tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 17, 2011 at 12:31:12 am

I realize formatting in DOS yields the 4 GB limit on file size, so what happens if you're trying to transfer a 10GB file to a DOS drive? Does it only copy 4 GB of it, or is is just not playable from that drive, yet able to transfer/copy back to another drive later? Just wondering for other clients who probably won't have MacDrive...also, with MacDrive...is it something I put on the drives i send them or do they have to have it on their PC...or both?

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 17, 2011 at 12:40:12 am

[tad newberry] "Just wondering for other clients who probably won't have MacDrive...also, with MacDrive...is it something I put on the drives i send them or do they have to have it on their PC...or both?"

It's an application that runs on a PC:

http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive/howdoesitwork

As far as Fat32, just don't bother. Files over 4GB don't work.

Jeremy


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Zane Barker
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 17, 2011 at 1:04:50 am

[tad newberry] "I realize formatting in DOS yields the 4 GB limit on file size, so what happens if you're trying to transfer a 10GB file to a DOS drive?"

You must mean Fat23 format. DOS is on old old old os not a drive format.

If you tried to copy a file larger then 4GB onto a Fat32 formatted drive you will get an error message saying you cannot copy the file to the drive. to get any file onto that drive it would need to be less then 4GB in size.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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Steven Gladstone
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 17, 2011 at 1:24:16 am

I'm not sure about the EXfat drives (or even what that is - FAT32?). I use MAcdrive, and actually ran into problems which were all traceable to windows. What happened was on the Windows machine, the Automount file/function whatever was corrupted. No drives would automount, and this caused major headaches (and rendered LaCie ruggedized drives useless and needing to be reformatted, although not WD drives)

Sounding a little familiar????

So I have a feeling that the clients computer might have an issue - although try telling them that.

Steven Gladstone
http://www.gladstonefilms.com


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Rafael Amador
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 17, 2011 at 9:24:27 am

[tad newberry] "i sent (3) ExFAT formatted drives "
That is a pen-drive format.
FAT-32 was the format you where looking for.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 3:10:05 am

okay...here's my dumb question (or two): is "FAT-32" the same as "MS-DOS (FAT)"? If not, where/how do i format in FAT-32, because Disk Utility does not offer it as an option...and does FAT-32 allow for files bigger than 4GB?

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 3:18:00 am

[tad newberry] " is "FAT-32" the same as "MS-DOS (FAT)"?"

Yep.

[tad newberry] "and does FAT-32 allow for files bigger than 4GB?"

Nope.


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Zane Barker
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 4:12:46 am

[tad newberry] "is "FAT-32" the same as "MS-DOS (FAT)""

Yes and no, a lot of people call use the terms interchangeably, but technically no MS-DOS was an a old operating system. MS-DOS 3.3 for example introduced the FAT16 format.

[tad newberry] "how do i format in FAT-32, because Disk Utility does not offer it as an option"

A hard drive must me partitioned using the Master Boot Record scheme in order to be able to choose choose FAT32

[tad newberry] "does FAT-32 allow for files bigger than 4GB"

Like I said in my first post no. You will get an error message if you try.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 4:21:25 am

i don't get it...so why would i want FAT-32 if it won't take anything over 4GB? it seems like ExFAT is the only (real) choice???

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


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Zane Barker
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 4:27:29 am

[tad newberry] "i don't get it...so why would i want FAT-32 if it won't take anything over 4GB?"

Because FAT32 is the only format that both windows and macs can both read and write onto. But not only does it have a 4GB file size limit but it makes the drive slower.

exFAT aka FAT64 is only supported in some versions of windows after an additional software install.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT

But if your going to have to install additional software you might as well install software on the windows machine that lets you read and write a regular mac formatted drive.

**Hindsight is always 1080p**


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Michael Gissing
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 4:51:57 am

The other alternative is to use NTFS which is a modern windows format without the file size limits. You can write from the Mac to an NTFS drive in two ways. One is to purchase software for the Mac that lets you write to NTFS.

http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/ntfs3g.html

I haven't used them so can't vouch for them. I have used MacDrive for years and it is excellent.

The other way that I use here is to network the Mac & PCs and file transfer via ethernet.


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Robert Shullich
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 6:46:07 am

One more thng, I have a blog on exFAT at rshullic.wordpress.com and also have a SANS paper on the technical internals of the exFAT file system.


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Rahul Duggal
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 9:38:36 am

Paragon NTFS is the way to go (in case you client doesn't want to go through the hassle of installing extra software on his PC to read the HFS formatted HDD's.) Also note that the HDD that you present to your client should not be formatted in GUID partition table but rather in MBR partition table (considering that he is running anything below Windows 7, But do note that formatting in MBR is not possible in Snow Leopard) otherwise, there isnt any problem.

While exFAT may be an excellent format the interoperability between Windows & OSX using it remains IFFY at best. So its better to use MacFuse or Paragon NTFS on your Mac to write to a NTFS formatted HDD for submitting work to your client.


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Alan Lacey
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 10:34:58 am

I use the free version of the Paragon software with no problems. It's a bit slow at writing to and NTFS disk and haven't established if buying the full version would speed it up any.

Anyway it just works!

Alan

FlashXDR,XDcamHD,XDcamEX,D9 etc
FCS,AE,Combustion,LiquidSilver,Vegas,Edius,
G5,MBP,Vista64,XP


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David Roth Weiss
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 3:44:38 pm

[tad newberry] "i don't get it...so why would i want FAT-32 if it won't take anything over 4GB?"

FAT32 is an ancient disk format (cavemen used it thousands of years ago) that was written when the largest disk drives available were 2Gb (okay, it was really the 1980's). So, bumping up against the 4Gb file size limitation was completely out of the realm of imagination at the time.

Later, when drives and file sizes grew larger, the NTFS drive format broke the 4Gb file size barrier. However, NTFS was never fully Mac compatible (by design of Bill Gates), so FAT32 has remained the only disk format that is completely compatible with both Mac and Windows systems. However, it still has the file size limitation, which makes it imperfect today since we routinely deal with even simple files that far exceed 4Gb.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Robert Shullich
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 6:44:45 am

If you are trying to format a driver on Windows and the drive is larger than 32GB in size, then FAT32 will not be provided as an option. You must format it as FAT32 on a non-microsoft system or use a utility (such as a partition manager) to format the drive as FAT32.

there are rigt now 4 members of the FAT famility, FAT12 (for floppies), FAT16, FAT32 and exFAT. Each has a different infrastructure and file organization. FAT32 uses a 4 byte field for file lengths and can't support more than 4GB file sizes (actually 4GB less a few bytes. exFAT uses a byte length, and can support 16EIB file sizes, however the largest file system size is slightly less than 128 PIB, so you can never reach the maximum file size.

If Apple did not fully implement the exFAT according to specifications, this will casue an issue in Windows. As part of the exFAT specification, the file drivers will inspect the integrity of the filesystem as well as compatibility before a mount, otherwise if the check fails the FS should not mount. The FS has checksums all over the place, and if a checksum is bad or not computed properly, the FS should fail to mount.


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tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 3:30:57 pm

Wow, thanks for all the input on this guys! I was about to do the option of telling my client to purchase MacDrive, but today it seems better if I buy Paragon or MacFuse so i'm speaking his language rather than expecting him (or others) to speak mine. I'll look into both of those options and get this thing going...

Thanks again!

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


Return to posts index

tad newberry
Re: ExFAT - ProDrive woes...
on Apr 18, 2011 at 4:14:39 pm

one last question (maybe...) do i use Win NT compressed or not compressed in Disk Utility?

thanks for helping out a bonehead!
__________________________

FCS3
2.66 GHz Quad-Core Mac Pro
6GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120
...and a few TeraBytes o' storage
(then it's on to PetaBytes, ExaBytes and MosquitoBytes!)


Return to posts index

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