FORUMS: list search recent posts

1080 60p into FCP7

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

<< PREVIOUS   •   FAQ   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
randy arnold1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 7:19:06 am

i am hoping to get a Panasonic tm700 for hi def capture, but want to edit it in FCP7. in order to do this, i understand you have to re-encode it in ClipWrap.

i am totally new to video more complicated than iMovie. but i want to know that there is a way to get 1080 60p footage into FCP before i buy the camera.

could someone please tell me step by step how to get 1080 60p footage into FCP7, whether it is ClipWrap or something else?

Will FCP see it as a 1080 60p file after it has been through ClipWrap?
can FCP handle the file after it gets into the timeline?

thanks

randy


Return to posts index

Rafael AmadorRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 10:19:54 am

Hi Randy,
there is not any problem on editing 1080p60 stuff in FC.
There are no 1080p60 Sequence Presets on FC, because that's not a real HD standard, but you just need to edit a 1080p30 sequence.
the only real pain is the AVCHD codec.
If ClipWrap works, would be grate just re-wrapping.
You have to try that before you buy ClipWrap: It doesn't works with the AVCHD coming from my JVC-Everio.
If re-wrapping with ClipWrap doesn't works, you'll need to transcode the files.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy GarchowRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 6:59:26 pm

I would highly recommend NOT shooting and editing in 1080p60 especially if you're coming from iMovie.

At this stage in the video game, 1080p60 is not plug and play and you will not be able to convert to anything useable very easily upon output. I'd recommend shooting 1080p24 or 1080p30, or even 1080i as that's essentially the look 1080p60 will give you.

Jeremy


Return to posts index


Rafael AmadorRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 8:26:11 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I would highly recommend NOT shooting and editing in 1080p60 especially if you're coming from iMovie. "
I agree with Jeremy.
1080p60 makes sense only if you need to do slow-mo at 1080.
Is a real pain of workflow.
Better shooting 720p60 and get a good upscaling.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

gary adcockRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 31, 2010 at 3:37:27 pm

[Rafael Amador] "There are no 1080p60 Sequence Presets on FC, because that's not a real HD standard, "

That is incorrect and misleading.

My SMPTE Guide lists 1080 50/60P under the 274M SMPTE/ EBU standard that the basis for all broadcast engineering, it is the basis of the 3G HDSDI standard and is required to deliver "frame-packed" full rez content to both eyes for 3D.

The main reason there are not any 1080 60p pre-sets in FCP is due to the requirements for 3rd party hardware video-out hardware to handle the signal correctly. Without that type hardware FCP will default to 30p / 60i.

In traditional media a 1080p60 stream is captured over a dual link HDSDI connection- it is NOT passable / transferable over FW from this camera.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



Return to posts index

Rafael AmadorRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 31, 2010 at 7:03:09 pm

[gary adcock] "That is incorrect and misleading.

My SMPTE Guide lists 1080 50/60P under the 274M SMPTE/ EBU standard that the basis for all broadcast engineering, it is the basis of the 3G HDSDI standard and is required to deliver "frame-packed" full rez content to both eyes for 3D......"


Great to know about this recent implementation for 3D.
Thanks for this interesting info.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index


randy arnoldRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 30, 2010 at 11:40:06 pm

thank you for your responses.

i was wondering if i used the 1080 60i option of the tm700 if there would be a lot less trouble with fcp7?

does anyone know if using 1080 60i would work ok with fcp7 and not have the problems like 1080 60p?

i am also still wondering if anyone has actually solved the problem of 1080 60p using ClipWrap and if that solution actually works for fcp7?

thanks

randy


Return to posts index

Jeremy GarchowRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Dec 31, 2010 at 12:16:12 am

If you shoot 1080i60, you can use log and transfer and edit/export fairly easily.

If you shoot 1080p60 you need to use clip wrap to transcode to ProRes. You will then have to convert the frame rate after your done editing. If you plan on using a capture card to monitor your footage you will need to work in dual link/3G hdsdi. This is not something you want to partake in as it's expensive and more complicated. Stick with broadcast frame rates and it will be much easier for you.

You can and wil do what you want, but I'd stick with a more friendly format for your first spin around the fcp block.


Return to posts index

Mick DienerRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 2, 2011 at 3:09:39 am

I'm working with Panasonic Tm900 footage in FCP... which is essentially the same as the Tm700 with it's associated workflow issues and aberrant AVCHD 60p wrapper. I'm using Clipwrap to transcode the 60p files into ProRes (and they look fantastic in FCP!). But for the sake of simplicity in workflow, file size and final output , I want to convert these files to 30p. I started by dropping these 60p files into a 30p sequence on FCP to see what would happen. The result is the expected increase in motion stutter (which I'm totally fine with) but ALSO a troubling and puzzling increase in horizontal and vertical moire. I also tried a different conversion workflow in which I used clipwrap to rewrap the tm900 files as h.264 files and then used Compressor to transcode into ProRes not at 60p but 30p. I then dropped this 30p clip into a 30p timeline and experienced the same moire noise.

What could be causing this? It doesn't seem like progressive footage (even with every other frame dropped) should be producing moire issues. Is there a way to correct the problem?

By the way I am viewing these clips and sequences full-screen on a mid-2010 Macbook Pro, and the moire problems I'm describing are ABSENT when viewing the 60p clip in a 60p (59.94) timeline.

Thanks for any assistance you guys can give me.


Return to posts index


randy arnoldRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 3, 2011 at 2:01:54 am

i have the tm700. i also use clipwrap. i found that if i record in HA mode, that clipwrap transcodes the 60i footage to 30p (prores 422). at least i assume it is 30p. in quicktime it says it is 29.97, so i am assuming it is 30p, otherwise why would it take 60 fps down to 30?
i don't know if going to prores 422 HQ would keep it at 60i or not though.
if i rewrap 1080/60p to prores 422 i get it at 59.97 which it should be.
i am going by memory here, and i hope my comments are accurate!
but if it truly does rewrap 60i footage to 30p footage, then there is no advantage to record in 1080p60 if you want 1080p30.


Return to posts index

Mick DienerRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 4, 2011 at 4:07:38 pm

Thanks Randy. The thing is I'm wanting to shoot in 60p because progressive has superior resolution (full progressive frame height) compared to interlaced (60i).

The question is -- why would converting a 60p clip to 30p (or playing a 60p clip in a 30p sequence) cause a notable increase in "moire" noise? Increased motion stuffer would be expected (and I even like it!) but the vibrating noise around fine lines -- why should that increase when FCP or Compressor presumably is just dropping every other progressive frame?

(See my original entry for more details of my workflow experiments.)


Return to posts index

Jeremy GarchowRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 4, 2011 at 4:22:32 pm

[Mick Diener] "Thanks Randy. The thing is I'm wanting to shoot in 60p because progressive has superior resolution (full progressive frame height) compared to interlaced (60i)."

But 1080p60 is a hard format to edit and deliver. Why not shoot 1080p30?

As far as the moire, I'd double check to make sure both your media and timeline are tagged as progressive.

Jeremy


Return to posts index


Mick DienerRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 4, 2011 at 4:48:40 pm

Thanks Jeremy. See below.

"But 1080p60 is a hard format to edit and deliver. Why not shoot 1080p30?"

I agree...see my original posting. The problem is the Panasonic Tm900 (like the TM700) doesn't shoot 30p. Only 60i and 60p. But I am hoping there is a way to convert the 60p clips to 30p without the introduction of moire noise.

"As far as the moire, I'd double check to make sure both your media and timeline are tagged as progressive."

I double-checked both media and sequence settings -- and yes, the media clip is definitely progressive and the timeline sequence is set to 30p.

I saw a reference on another forum here that mentions these 60p Panasonics use "intra-frame compression" to fit the 60p data into the pipe. I wonder if that could explain moire problems occurring when every other frame is dropped to convert 60p to 30p?


Return to posts index

Jeremy GarchowRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 4, 2011 at 5:06:51 pm

[Mick Diener] "and yes, the media clip is definitely progressive and the timeline sequence is set to 30p."

Is the field dom set to none? Are you watching this on an external broadcast monitor through a capture device? If not, then you aren't seeing the real picture.

[Mick Diener] "I saw a reference on another forum here that mentions these 60p Panasonics use "intra-frame compression" to fit the 60p data into the pipe. I wonder if that could explain moire problems occurring when every other frame is dropped to convert 60p to 30p?"

I'm not entirely sure how that camera works as I have never worked with it or investigated but there's no doubt there's probably some juju going on. It would be interframe and not intraframe as it's AVCHD.

I still wouldn't shoot 60p to deliver 30p. Why throw out half your frames and create unnatural motion?

If you insist on shooting 1080p60, I'd use Compressor to make the files.


Return to posts index

Rafael AmadorRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Apr 4, 2011 at 5:19:25 pm

Hi Mick,

[Mick Diener] " I started by dropping these 60p files into a 30p sequence on FCP to see what would happen. The result is the expected increase in motion stutter (which I'm totally fine with) but ALSO a troubling and puzzling increase in horizontal and vertical moire."
What do you mean "horizontal and vertical moire"?
Moire happens where there are patterns of fine detail in the Y' channel (those Y' high frequencies are interpreted as Chroma producing that annoying ever-changing-color on shirts with thin stripes or dots).

FC should be just dropping half of the frames. You lose half of the "temporal resolution", but the spatial resolution (pixels size) remains.
Anyway, working with a non-standard format (yet for FC) and with applications like ClipWrap, is difficult to be sure about how the Field Order has been managed.

This little script may help you:
http://www.google.es/searchclient=safari&rls=en&q=Rewrap2M4V&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF...

You should try as well MPGStreamclip to go Prores 1080p60 to p30.

rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index


inanc tekgucRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Jun 2, 2011 at 6:56:30 am

I have a PAL version of TM700.
It is possible to shoot with 1080p24. You just need to choose the Cine Mode. It reduces some of the capabilities of the camera, like the intelligent zoom, but still the quality is very good.
I don't know how many fps Cine Mode will give you on NTSC. But it solves your problem of 60i not having the optimum height of pixels.

Once you shoot in 24p, FCP7 recognizes the files on the SD card when plugged to my MacBook Pro i7. You can log and transfer (not log and capture) and even give sequence number to your videos to keep the names unique, because TM700 resets the sequence of .mts files everytime you format the card. I noticed that FCP also uses ProRes 422 when importing these files. So they are not native AVCHD, which is fine as editing is said to be easier on ProRes (except the 8-10 times multiplied file sizes).

Problem is, if you transfer the .mts files to your computer then try to log and transfer, FCP does not recognize the .mts files. I could not solve this issue. Any ideas?

So far for my project, I had started with shoowing in 1080p50. I converted those using ClipWrap2.2 with ProRes 422 Proxy (any other ProRes made the files too big and I quickly ran out of 500GB space).

When I bring them onto FCP by "import" and drop them on a sequence to set the sequence settings to fit the footage, it seems to give me 50p on the sequence. Not sure though. How to check?
Then I can export using 720p to ensure others can view it in different places. The original 1080p50 .mts files stay in my archive as high quality recordings which can be used in a year or two on more qualified versions of FCP.

Yet, I hear what Rafael says, so now, I started shooting with Cine Mode to avoid above step and also to use less memory space.

My question would be how to combine earlier shots that have been shot in 1080p50 and newer ones on 1080p24, on the same sequence?

Also, would it be better to shoot on 50i and then convert this to 24p or 30p? Is that possible at all? Or is my Cine Mode approach best choice I have?


Return to posts index

Peter van DijkRe: 1080 60p into FCP7
by on Sep 19, 2011 at 7:35:46 am

Finally, a solution!

Panasonic released september 5th 2011 a AVCCAM Importer for Mac.
https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/desk/e/avc_download.htm#avc...

I can play my 1080/50p recorded clips now in Quicktime, and so can do everything that you want with it.
Drag into FCP bin, cut directly with the MTS, or even better (for me) open in MPEG Streamclip, export selections to ProRes 422 HQ , open that in Cinema, conform to 25fps!



Return to posts index

Post removed.

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2016 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]