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Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?

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Christopher Hill
Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:21:37 am

Final cut has seen a large gap between it's last two refreshes and honestly the last one to FCS(3) seemed more like a service pack than an overhaul (just my opinion).

So for my own curiosity, I'm wondering why I should stick with FCS when Adobe's CS5 suite seems to trump it in every category. Most notably in Premiere with more native workflow support, support for import/export of Avid and Final Cut projects not to mention a nearly seamless workflow between it's suite of programs.

Can anyone point out why I should stick with FCS? Right now we use FC for our editing and DVDSP for our authoring, but all our graphics and motion graphics are done in Photoshop and After Effects. It seems almost logical at this point to switch to a completely Adobe workflow, but it would require quite some expense. So I'm curious what your opinions are.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:30:35 am


I haven't had any up close with CS4 or had a good look at CS5 but do you color grade and how does a program like Color compare to CS5 offerings?

I mostly grade/online so I chose FCP because it was not only the most common source of projects but also having grading tools like Color have kept me in the business of broadcast finishing where I am competing with DaVinci standards of grading. Just how well do projects from AVID or FCP translate into CS5?

Can you point out what makes you want to switch to CS5 other than FCP has not made huge improvements since FCS2 was released. What is CS5 doing that is a big improvement on FCS3.


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walter biscardi
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 7:21:24 am

With $995 Resolve the advantage of Color is negated. I\'m going to look at what I\'ve been told are amazing rotoscope tools on after effects tomorrow.

As for convincing you to stay on a platform, that\'s not our job. You need to choose what is right for your company, your market and your clientele. For me this will be adding one license of resolve and possibly one license of Avid Media Composer 5 though I have to learn more about interoperability with FCP. But I\'m still going to have 10 or more FCP workstations in the new facilty as the workhorse edit systems.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 5:22:34 am

I'm not sure what market you work in but if I told any clients I was editing and grading with Premiere, they would look at me and ask "what the hell is that? I don't have that installed on my laptop." Anyone else I work with would just laugh at me. Too many people have invested money into Avid and FCP(and the Color workflow) already. Besides, what's keeping you from using both Premiere and FCP at your studio?

Just because Apple hasn't had any amazing announcements about FCP at NAB doesn't mean that they won't have any announcements in the near future.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
Bunim-Murray Productions


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 5:30:22 am

[Christopher Hill] "I'm wondering why I should stick with FCS when Adobe's CS5 suite seems to trump it in every category."

Have you ever actually tried to accomplish anything in Premiere?

Have you ever actually tried to accomplish anything with Adobe Media Encoder?

Has any client ever actually asked you to do any work for them with Premiere?

If your answer is no to two or more of the questions above, then there's your answer.



David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 5:36:04 am

[Christopher Hill] "Can anyone point out why I should stick with FCS?"
I can't tell you why should you stay in FC.
I can tell you why I will stay in FC.
I'm a video editor,and FCS (with few extras) gives me all the tools that I need.
I'm in this business since more than 25 years and I've learnt of being cautious when a new "superstar" arrives.
I'm not close at all to any option better than FC (I would get Smoke if I would think is the tool that suits me), but I've been working with FC since v2.5 and I don't gonna start to shake because it seems that, after 16 or 17 years of development, at last PP had catch up with FC.
What is clear is that now is the time for Apple to move.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Ernie Santella
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 5:55:10 am

Of the fellow pro editors I know that have tested Premier, none have said they want to switch. Nuff said.


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 6:15:51 am

The choice is yours. The CS5 Master Collection can do everything FCS can do and more. The integration of the CS 4 products can not be beat in my opinion.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 6:28:02 am

[arc nevada] "The CS5 Master Collection can do everything FCS can do and more"

A tractor can do everything my car can do plus more. I can build a house with a swiss army knife, but I would rather use a power tool or ten. The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?


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Christopher Hill
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 7:04:36 am

@Michael Gissing - I honestly haven't had much experience with Premiere since their CS2 offering and I wasn't unimpressed back then, but industry standards at the time drove me to Final Cut which I've been using for the last 4 years exclusively. Our studio is very small and at the moment we don't do any professional color-grading outside of Final Cut.

The things that intrigue me about the new CS5 are the ability to work with Final Cut projects in Premiere without any re-rendering or converting as well as Premiere's ability to work with a wide variety of tapeless workflows natively and mixing and matching different formats in the same timeline without rendering. But the biggest draw as I mentioned is Adobe's proven track-record of seamless round-tripping between it's programs.

@Illya & David- The audience and client base we serve is such that they probably wouldn't know or care if we were editing content in Avid, Premiere or Final Cut. Not to say that our quality is sub-standard or unprofessional but that our clientele is not of the crowd that would notice such a difference nor bring us content specific to one platform. We have tested media encoder in the past in our workflow and while Compressor works better for us at current, we weren't unimpressed with the results.

@Rafael - Like you, I think it is time for Apple to get it's act together. It's just my opinion but I feel as though the many complaints that have been lodged against FCP by it's user base in the past have gone largely unaddressed. I'm hoping that they have some stunning announcements coming, but I'm not holding my breath.

All in all, thank you everyone for your responses. Some have been enlightening. I'm hoping that there are some fellow editors out there who have had their hands on a Beta or RC version of CS5 to offer some insight. My intent wasn't to start a flame war or intentionally "dog" on FCS but to ask a serious question and get some serious answers.

Thanks

Chris Hill


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 11:19:01 am

[Christopher Hill] "@Rafael - Like you, I think it is time for Apple to get it's act together. It's just my opinion but I feel as though the many complaints that have been lodged against FCP by it's user base in the past have gone largely unaddressed. I'm hoping that they have some stunning announcements coming, but I'm not holding my breath. "
I agree with you.
This is a moment of decisions for Apple.
Is not just about the future of FC, but about the future of Mac.
Without FC, Mac Pro have no future.
The developments of FC have never been pushed by others NLE developments, and I don't expect Apple makes a fast movement just because the new CS5.
Personally I see this paranoia very little professional, and for the people that is crying because they think that took the wrong decision to go to FC 4 years ago, just think how would have been the last four years working with PP.
rafael
PS: After seven years of marriage, I don't gonna ask for divorce, just because one night the dinner in the neighbors house smells better than my wife's dinner.

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Eric Addison
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 7:14:24 am

What does PPro CS5 have that FCP doesn't - Mercury Playback Engine. See it work, then tell me that PPro hasn't gained ground on(or passed) FCP.

PPro works great for me - it's my goto NLE, and it's never let me down.

Quick story from this past weekend - on a shoot with my EX3. Over lunch, the client asked to see the footage. I pulled the SxS card, put it into my laptop, and without even copying the footage from the card, I cut together the first four scenes in PPro and showed him this "rough cut". It played back smooth with no problems - again, all playing native right from the SxS card...sorry - can't do that in FCP.

FCS has some great features, is dependable, and it has large market share. But I just got back from NAB, and a LOT of people were talking about PPro CS5. Before anyone just writes it off, you should really check it out - it's really amazing.

---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:05:13 am


Far from writing it off, I just want info about how it handles all workflow including grading and also integration with I/O cards. Just how good is the import from FCP, particularly translating FX, text, speed ramps etc.

Can it import say a project with ProRes codec and continue to work in that format? Has Apple licensed ProRes to them as an edit codec?

I will do some homework but any insights into these questions would be appreciated.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:21:04 am

Premier Pro CS5 or rather the CS5 production bundle holds a few very interesting features compared to FCS.

Modern foundation of 64-bit. How much this affects an editor I can't say, After Effects will be a joy giving all that RAM too and I could imagine certain areas an editor really can enjoy this as well. No more limitations!

Modern play-back with the Mercury Engine. This is something Apple should have "cooked together" with the advent of MacOSX 10.6 in my opinion but Adobe was way a head of them on the ball here.

Format-support is something FCP has been king in to some degree but at some point Apple decided "no native formats, all should be re-wrapped to Quicktime" (more or less). This and the native route has it's ups and downs but seeing some tech-videos of the performance Premier as with for instance RED-footage. Yes, it does make me look to that.

Integration between apps. We edit in FCP, Grade in Color and do most of our FX / Compositing in After Effects. With this in mind CS5 could be our choice of online.

I tested Premier CS4 and for me by no means was it for me a viable replacement for FCP but CS5 does sound intriguing IF they've sorted all the oddness out of the previous app (ridiculous slow time-line refreshing and what not). What is clear is that Premier is the underdog of main-stream editors. They are backed up by a giant (Adobe) but are competing with more or less two standards out there: AVID and FINAL CUT PRO. It's impressive to see the technical "highs" each sub-sequent version gets and it's quite clear that Apple in some areas need to get their thumb of of somewhere and get up to date.

My future workflow? If PPCS5 holds the water I'd either be going:

FCP > Color > Premier / AE > Output

or keep

FCP > Color > FCP / AE > Output

But use Premier as a bridge into AE for more complex scenes.

What CS5 is lacking is a Color-class grading solution. You do get something similar for AE as a plugin but that's not really the same thing as a stand-alone gradeing suite. On the flipside, DaVinci is now offering a VERY cheap software / GPU solution that should give Color a serious run for their buck. This renders this part of FCS less of a must-have.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Michael Gissing
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:35:40 am


Thanks Eric. Just the sort of informed comparison I was interested in.


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 18, 2010 at 11:05:52 pm


Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Michael Gissing on Apr 14, 2010 at 2:28:02 am


[arc nevada] "The CS5 Master Collection can do everything FCS can do and more"

A tractor can do everything my car can do plus more. I can build a house with a swiss army knife, but I would rather use a power tool or ten. The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?



Why not visit Adobetv or the adobe website and see first hand? Once you watch a few tutorials you might end up dropping FCS. I ditched Edius after seeing the tutorials and I do not regret it at all. Premiere Pro, DreamWeaver, Indesign, and Soundbooth all kick ass. I suggest you check out the Auto Compose feature of Soundbooth for starters.

Perhaps in another 10 years Aperture might integrate well with FCP and iWeb might integrate well with Aperture. Aperture might someday import native 3D objets from Lightwave, Maya and 3DS Max. You can wait for FCS to catch up to the CS4/CS5 Master Collection but I'm not going to. If you have access to the internet then you have no excuse to be ingorant of what the CS4/CS5 Master Collection can do that FCS can not. You may not need the Master Collection but don't try to pretend that Dreamweaver, Indesign, After Effects and Photoshop are not used everyday in the real world. FCS does not have programs for audio, video, film, print and the internet that integrate as well as the CS5 Master Collection. The CS5 Master Collection covers the whole multimedia spectrum FCS does not and probably never will.


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 2:57:12 am

"The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?"

I can tell you what FCP does better than Premiere. It's better at getting clients. Would you use Soundbooth rather than Pro Tools too?

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 5:15:39 am

Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Illya Laney on Apr 18, 2010 at 10:57:12 pm


"The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?"

I can tell you what FCP does better than Premiere. It's better at getting clients. Would you use Soundbooth rather than Pro Tools too?


Are you suggesting Apple's iWeb is superior to DreamWeaver? What program do you FCS users have to match OnLocation? Premiere and After Effect were two of the first programs to to edit the Red One's native R3D codec. You can even email the Red One team to varify this. With Premiere Pro I do not waste time transcoding into the Pro Res. I edit the native video codec files. All the CS4/CS5 programs integrate well with one another. As far as I know native Aperture files do not integrate with iWeb or FCP. So yea the CS4 Master Collection offers a far more superior multimedia solution than FCS. And yes, I would opt for Soundbooth over Pro Tools but you need to keep in mind that on the PC side Audition can also integrate with AE, Encore and Premiere just as good as Soundbooth can. And no, Pro Tools is not that great when compared to other audio editing systems. Sorry to have to bring the bad news to you but you should go to the Adobe website if you really want to get all the answers.



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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 6:10:39 am

This is a post production forum, not a multimedia forum so your finer points about multimedia don't even matter.

I'll state my point once again, FCP is better at getting clients than Premiere. Prove me wrong.

Here's another one, nothing in any of the Adobe collections can even compare to Color. I used to use After Effects and Color Finesse for grading years ago, so don't even argue with me about that.

Regarding Pro Tools, some of it's features are lacking, but when it comes to what matters, it excels. If you've ever worked in broadcast with tight deadlines, you'll know that any other DAW can't compare with it's editing and mixing speed. Other's are better in regards to music production(like Nuendo), but once again, this is a post production forum so that doesn't matter.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 7:23:33 am

[Illya Laney] "This is a post production forum, not a multimedia forum... "
In fact this is a video editing forum.
First time I opened PP was in 1996.
I was so disappointed that I never considered again editing in a computer till I met FC.
PP simply wasn't designed by video editors.
All that integration is great but even 90% of PP users do not need it.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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walter biscardi
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 2:59:49 pm

[Illya Laney] "I'll state my point once again, FCP is better at getting clients than Premiere. Prove me wrong. "

No it's not. It's the artist and the facility that gets the clients. Put a lousy editor in an FCP suite and you're not going to get any clients. Put a lousy editor in an Avid suite and you're not going to get any clients.

Clients are going to look at your reel. When I first installed FCP I lost clients because that was back with FCP 1.2.5 and Atlanta was an Avid town. Media 100 cost me clients too because the Avid editors had done such a great job of telling everyone who would listen how bad of an editing tool it was even though the codec was better than Avid.

Also, there are many more really REALLY bad editors using FCP than good editors so one of the things I still have to overcome is Producers who had a really bad experience with one of those editors who purchased the software, no clue how to use it, and assume that it was FCP that was the problem, not the editor themselves.

If clients come to you because you have FCP over Premiere, that's not a valid reason to use your facility. Most Producers have learned that all the tools are cheap and they are simply looking for the best artist at the best price. That's what wins and loses clients. The editing tool is immaterial.

As an Editor I'm looking for the tool that will be the most efficient and give me the most options and quality for the money. As of right now, both Avid and Premiere are more efficient with the tapeless workflow than FCP.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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Wayne Carey
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 3:59:13 pm

[walter biscardi] "No it's not. It's the artist and the facility that gets the clients. Put a lousy editor in an FCP suite and you're not going to get any clients. Put a lousy editor in an Avid suite and you're not going to get any clients."

Walter, this is partially true. I know this for a fact because we were courting a big client thru an ad agency and lost the account because we were not editing on Avid. Oh well....

FCP is a perfect platform for what our shop does. Avid is better for others, but not for everyone. The same holds true for Premier Pro. All of the software that is offered is geared to a specific application. Adobe is just trying to make a dent in the market by offering an all over package. Enough said...

We edit primarily on FCS3 but I use Adobe applications all day too. Yeah, Premier Pro has its place but not for everyone. I've used it a time or two myself. Its easier to do one off DV dubs, if needed. But that's just me.

It's not ONLY the tools that make money but skill, too. I, too, see lots of bad editing out there on every network but clients will get what they are willing to pay. If they want something for nothing, then maybe they'll have to settle for not-so-good editing.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Walter... But, its a total combination that makes a shop profitable, including your output to tape or disc.

Keep in mind, people... These are just tools of the trade. Just like a good car mechanic, they could have thousands invested in tools, but if they can't fix a car, what good are they?

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 11:20:09 pm

"No it's not. It's the artist and the facility that gets the clients. Put a lousy editor in an FCP suite and you're not going to get any clients. Put a lousy editor in an Avid suite and you're not going to get any clients. "

I completely agree, but you're talking about something completely different. I'm talking about FCP versus Premiere, not skill versus tech. It's a completely different conversation.

I'm also talking about right now, the current market, the present, not the future. I work in advertising regularly for Sony and Adidas where all the producers and DP's have FCP installed on their machines. In my market if I was editing using Premiere I wouldn't be working. If you think you could gain more clients using Premiere rather than Avid or FCP right now, then you're in a very special market.

To address one of your other points, I'm sure there are a lot of lousy Premiere editors out there too, probably a greater percentage than professional FCP and Avid editors. The reasons should be obvious, one of which is the fact that they probably don't get nearly as much editing work than an FCP or Avid editor. I'm sure you'll agree, time and experience have a lot to do with most editor's skill.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 2:52:31 am

"I lost clients because that was back with FCP 1.2.5 and Atlanta was an Avid town. Media 100 cost me clients too because the Avid editors had done such a great job of telling everyone who would listen how bad of an editing tool it was even though the codec was better than Avid."

I just read your post again. Doesn't this prove my point? Just replace the words Avid with FCP and FCP/Media 100 with Premiere.

"I lost clients because that was back with Premiere and Atlanta was an FCP town. Premiere cost me clients too because the FCP editors had done such a great job of telling everyone who would listen how bad of an editing tool it was even though the codec was better than FCP."




Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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walter biscardi
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 3:13:07 am

[Illya Laney] ""I lost clients because that was back with Premiere and Atlanta was an FCP town. Premiere cost me clients too because the FCP editors had done such a great job of telling everyone who would listen how bad of an editing tool it was even though the codec was better than FCP." "

That was 1998 and 2001 when I had first a Media 100 shop and then the changeover to FCP. It's a different marketplace now and the tool doesn't matter so much as the artist.

In case you're wondering, I made the change from Media 100 to Final Cut Pro because at the time FCP could do 99 tracks of video and Media 100 only 2. It was more efficient to switch to FCP. My clients didn't care when I made the switch. But since I wasn't running Avid, I continued to lose clients until many producers started to realize that this is a pretty good tool and the person driving it is more important than the tool itself. They also appreciated that my rates were a good $100/hour less than most of the Avid shops.

If you require FCP to stay competitive, then you better keep using it. In my position and with my clientele (broadcast and independent features) they're here for me and my staff. They trust that I put the correct tools in place to get the job done as quickly and professionally as possible.



Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 3:33:42 am

I understand you're getting an Avid system, and I believe that's a good move, but are you going to try using Premiere with clients before FCS 3 comes out?

I'm not trying to be rude or smart with this question, just honestly curious to see what everyone's actually going to do in the next few months.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 6:57:01 am

Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Illya Laney on Apr 18, 2010 at 10:57:12 pm

"The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?"




Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Illya Laney on Apr 19, 2010 at 7:20:09 pm

"No it's not. It's the artist and the facility that gets the clients. Put a lousy editor in an FCP suite and you're not going to get any clients. Put a lousy editor in an Avid suite and you're not going to get any clients. "

I completely agree, but you're talking about something completely different. I'm talking about FCP versus Premiere, not skill versus tech. It's a completely different conversation.



Your original post stated can SC5 fans tell us what is better and how? Now you want to go FCP Vs. Premiere. OK, lets do it dude. If a client needs you to edit the Red One R3D codec with FCP you have to transcode the file into the Apple Pro Res. That wastes the clients time. With Premiere Pro CS4 I can edit the natvie Red One's R3D codec. CS5 will allow for multiple layers at 4K resolution with effects. I don't think FCP will accept the full 4K resolution. FCS and Color? Did you say Color? Both Premiere and After Effects can edit in the cameras native color space or 32 bit if you want boost it up. Premiere has almost all the PhotoShop tools. Are you suggesting Photoshop can not do color grading? Show me something you can do in Color that I can not do in Premiere. Keep in mind the titling system of Premiere blows the FCP titler into oblivion. Let's not forget Premiere Pro ships with Encore and OnLocation both. Also CS5 now has a screen writing program included. Premiere Pro can accept Avid an FCP files. Premiere Pro works on Mac and PC hardware both. Premiere Pro makes better use of the Mac hardware than FCP does.



Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Illya Laney on Apr 19, 2010 at 11:33:42 pm


I understand you're getting an Avid system, and I believe that's a good move, but are you going to try using Premiere with clients before FCS 3 comes out?

I'm not trying to be rude or smart with this question, just honestly curious to see what everyone's actually going to do in the next few months.


Dude, you do realize Avatar made use of the Production Premium don't you? If it is good enough for James Cameron's Avatar it should be good enough for any of your clients. You seem to have a hatred toward Premiere and it shows big time. You claim you are not trying to be rude or smart. I can not argue with that at all. If you wanted to be smart you could check out what the CS5 Produciton Premium has to offer at Adobe's website instead of needing me to make a list for you.







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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 9:39:14 am

Hi Arc,
Great advantages for the people that works with RED, for the people that mix formats, and for for the people that works for Hollywood. Pity I do not belong to any of these groups.

I see that you know very well PP ( I wonder if you are another Adobe's FC Forum Observer).
But, how do you dare to talk about FC when you have never put your hands on him?
That gets very clear just reading a recent thread of you:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/900391#900435

You shouldn't talk about what you don't know.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 11:48:33 am

My favorite is

"Premiere Pro can mix just about any type of codec you put on the timeline where as FCP needs everything converted to the Apple Pro Res."

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 7:04:55 am

Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
by Rafael Amador on Apr 20, 2010 at 5:39:14 am


Hi Arc,
Great advantages for the people that works with RED, for the people that mix formats, and for for the people that works for Hollywood. Pity I do not belong to any of these groups.

I see that you know very well PP ( I wonder if you are another Adobe's FC Forum Observer).
But, how do you dare to talk about FC when you have never put your hands on him?
That gets very clear just reading a recent thread of you:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/900391#900435

You shouldn't talk about what you don't know.
rafael


I have used FCP many many times. My friend always has to convert AVCHD into the Pro Res. He hates doing it. He does not have the newest version of FCS so things may be different. He was able to drop and drag more native file codecs into Premire Pro than FCP. He was trying the demo version of PP on his Mac. He liked the demo of Premiere Pro. I am not saying FCP has to transcode all files into the Pro Res but Premiere will accept just about anything. We were not having the same luck with FCP. I am not saying Premiere can accept eveything but I have never had a codec that had to be transcoded into an intermediate codec. My system plays m2t files just fine.

Please explain what I don't know? If the codec played in FCP but not in Premiere I am willing to bet it was not Native HDV, AVCHD/m2t, MPEG, Quicktime or Panasonics P2 type codec. The only thing I can say is my system works and my friends Mac Pro had not one codec that Premiere Pro did not accept. I admit my friends Mac Pro accepted the m2t codec with out transcoding but it did drop frames slightly. He has two 2.66 Core 2 Duals. My system was playing m2t files in realtime with a 2.666 GHZ Quad Core. I am wondering if some of those folks had Core 2 Dual systems. If so then yes Premiere will drop frames when playing native AVCHD/m2t files at full resolution. I honeslty think it might be a Mac thing. The person stated he is using a Mac with Premiere Pro. I don't have any of the problems he had and my video proves it. So yes my PC with Premiere Pro can accept anything I throw at it thus far with out the need to transcode. I can even place a Flash file on the timeline. On the PC side Premiere Pro will even accept clipart files from the MS Office Suite.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 7:33:36 am

[arc nevada] "If the codec played in FCP but not in Premiere I am willing to bet it was not Native HDV, AVCHD/m2t, MPEG, Quicktime or Panasonics P2 type codec"

Arc,
I simply can not work with PP.
I shoot with the NANO-flash and PP doesn't support nothing else than the 50Mbps files.
Hopefully this have been addressed in CS5.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 9:46:30 am

Arc, is this really you?







I'm unsubscribing from this thread. Have fun on Youtube.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 11:55:43 am

"The real question is how well it does each task. Can any CS5 fans tell us what it does better and how?"

Stop taking this so serious. That was a quote from someone else. Re-read the thread.

My original statement...

"I can tell you what FCP does better than Premiere. It's better at getting clients."

You're advertising all of Premiere's features, not how it gets clients in current market. You still haven't answered the question.

To respond to your other points...

"If a client needs you to edit the Red One R3D codec with FCP you have to transcode the file into the Apple Pro Res. That wastes the clients time. With Premiere Pro CS4 I can edit the natvie Red One's R3D codec. CS5 will allow for multiple layers at 4K resolution with effects."


I was editing with R3D quicktime proxies over two years ago, before CS4 even came out, so NO, you don't have to transcode the file "into the Apple Pro Res" as you put it. The last job I did for LG, I was editing R3D proxies on set with my laptop 10 minutes after Hayden Panettiere finished shooting.

As far as the Mercury Engine goes, Adobe has been really quiet about the exact requirements for full real time 4K playback and effects. I know the price is going to be steep for a PC that can actually handle it and there aren't going to be any people editing 4K on a laptop with fire wire or esata. Just look at the requirements for a Resolve to grade 4K in real time, and that utilizes multiple graphics cards just like the Mercury Engine. Why would you edit with full 4K resolution anyway? I don't know any normal cards that support 4K to 4K monitoring with R3D besides the Red Rocket and that's not going to work on a Mercury Engine system.

In regards to Adobe, I know what it offers in regards to Photoshop, After Effects, and Illustrator. I do compositing, grading, and motion design for a living. As for Color, I think you should go to the Color forum and start talking about Premiere's superior grading capabilites.

What market do you work in by the way?


Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 7:40:58 am

I was editing with R3D quicktime proxies over two years ago, before CS4 even came out, so NO, you don't have to transcode the file "into the Apple Pro Res" as you put it. The last job I did for LG, I was editing R3D proxies on set with my laptop 10 minutes after Hayden Panettiere finished shooting.

As far as the Mercury Engine goes, Adobe has been really quiet about the exact requirements for full real time 4K playback and effects. I know the price is going to be steep for a PC that can actually handle it and there aren't going to be any people editing 4K on a laptop with fire wire or esata. Just look at the requirements for a Resolve to grade 4K in real time, and that utilizes multiple graphics cards just like the Mercury Engine. Why would you edit with full 4K resolution anyway? I don't know any normal cards that support 4K to 4K monitoring with R3D besides the Red Rocket and that's not going to work on a Mercury Engine system.


Adobe has not been quite about the system requirements. Infact they listed what cards are supported over 4 months ago. You are just too much of a Premiere Pro hater to go and get the facts.

The Red Rocket won't work with the Mercury Playback Engine? You are a silly man and not really worth my time. The Mercury Playback Engine eliminates the need for the Red Rocket dude. Why would I spend over $4,750.00 for the Red Rocket When I can buy a GTX 285 video card for $300.00? The Nvidia Graphics card does all the realtime. You do not need multiple graphics cards to playback 5 layers of native R3D codec. One Nvidia card does it all. You can use a $199.00 Decklink Card for NTSC monitoring and CC or use the Nvidia graphics cards HDMI port. You don't need the Red Rocket with Premiere Pro CS5. To make the statement that the Mercury Playback Engine does not make use of the Red Rocket lets me know you do not have a clue about what PP CS5 can do. Also you are only editing with proxie files because you have to. Why wouldn't you want to playback full resolution if your system could do it with ease? CS5 will edit R3D files as easy as standard DV. I can build a system with the GTX 285 video card for about a grand even. The GTX 400 series (fermie) should be getting aproved very soon.



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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 5:35:53 pm

"Arc Nevada,"

You have until the end of the day today to update your account to your realname or we will be turning off your account.

Your argumentativeness and lack of answering direct questions that are posed to you -- besides being a PC guy who hates Macs and just loves to crap on them (something we have never tolerated here in the COW, regardless if it's people for or against Macs) -- is about to get you thrown out of here.

So, if you are going to make the assertions that you are, step up to the plate and own your words.

Arc Nevada is about to disappear from the COW.

Oh, and don't tell me it's because I am a Mac-freak, as I own a few of them, but the largest set of computers I own are Linux-based and I also have a few HP Z-Series PCs -- so, I wouldn't try that one were I in your shoes.

Lastly, you might try being a little more respectful in your comments, as fanboys -- whether of the pro- or anti- variety -- do not last long in Creative COW.

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net


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Matt Lyon
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 21, 2010 at 11:38:33 pm

Ron, have you considered a more general policy that everyone sign their posts with a full name, job title and location? I've wanted to suggest this even before this flame war erupted. Maybe this is too hard to enforce? I'm on another mailing list that does this and it seems to keep standards of decorum a little higher. (Not to suggest that things have gotten out of hand on this forum -- far from it). Maybe this would also encourage some folks to do a little more googling before posting about well tread topics.

Just my two cents,

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto


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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 11:48:33 am

[Matt Lyon] "Ron, have you considered a more general policy that everyone sign their posts with a full name, job title and location? I've wanted to suggest this even before this flame war erupted. Maybe this is too hard to enforce?"

We would love doing this but I am afraid that using a policy that restrictive would cut down the traffic to a trickle of what it is, and we could pull the plug on Bessie.

We have tried over the last 15 years of doing this, to find a balance between being restrictive enough to get most of the job done, while being loose enough to allow enough freedom that most people can self-regulate themselves.

Unfortunately, there always seem to be some whining anti-Mac or antic-PC fanboy in the crowd from time to time. Either side gets really boring quick.

Thanks for your feedback, Matt. It is appreciated.

Ron Lindeboom
creativecow.net


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walter biscardi
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 20, 2010 at 10:16:32 pm

[Illya Laney] "I understand you're getting an Avid system, and I believe that's a good move, but are you going to try using Premiere with clients before FCS 3 comes out?

I'm not trying to be rude or smart with this question, just honestly curious to see what everyone's actually going to do in the next few months.
"


Well, of course FCS3 is already here. It's FCS 4 we're waiting on.

Yes, absolutely I will be trying out Premiere as we will be ordering 5 copies of the CS5 Production Premium upgrades when they are released to update all our workstations. As I've noted before, we use After Effects and Photoshop daily and I also dabble with Illustrator and Flash so the Production Premium bundle makes sense. Premiere is part of that package and you better believe I will test it out to see how it compares to FCP and just how easily we can bring an FCP project into Premiere as a legacy project.

Will I throw it into production? Depends on how the testing goes.





Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

"Foul Water, Fiery Serpent" featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Mark Petereit
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 11:29:33 am

No, FCP just can't compete any more. That's why Steve Jobs scrapped the entire pro apps development team (you saw the announcement, right?) and diverted all the company's resources to developing iPhone OS 4. And no more Macs. The desktop is dead. Handheld is the future.

We have all pre-ordered CS5 for our Windows 7 machines. Frankly, I'm surprised this forum is still here.



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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 12:11:06 pm

Haha. I'm enjoying this DaVinci/CS5 hysteria. Something hasn't even hit the market, yet people are already deciding what to do...or trying to.

Modular anyone?

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/04/an-apple-patent-may-hin...

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
Bunim-Murray Productions


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 2:24:32 pm

Steve said what what? I thought he stated they layed-off external consultants and that the pro-suite of apps where going no-where.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:37:12 pm

"No, FCP just can't compete any more. That's why Steve Jobs scrapped the entire pro apps development team (you saw the announcement, right?) and diverted all the company's resources to developing iPhone OS 4. And no more Macs. The desktop is dead. Handheld is the future.

We have all pre-ordered CS5 for our Windows 7 machines. Frankly, I'm surprised this forum is still here."


Yes, FCS3 is so 2009!

Scott Sheriff
Director
SST Digital Media
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 11:43:27 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "Yes, FCS3 is so 2009!"

Come on Scott, you stole that from a post of mine from last week when I said "the animation codec is so 20th century." I expect a little originality...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

EPK Colorist - UP IN THE AIR - nominated for six academy awards

A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Allan White
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:41:18 pm

While I agree FCP development in particular (and Pro apps in general) are lagging, I don't think the "Entire Pro Apps Team" was laid off. The article I saw was some FCP engineers were laid off in Texas. Got a prooflink?

I, too, am disappointed in the lack of announcements at NAB. But then why release new MBPs, with Pro Apps prominently featured on the page?

I wondered, too, if Apple was just done with non-mobile devices after the success they've had in the last few years in that space. They've redefined how we'll interact with computers in the future. But then I realized: you can't build iPhone/pad apps without OS X on a Mac computer.

No, Mac development hasn't stopped. It's no longer the very core of their business, but it won't go away soon. It's just going to change... how many years before the iPad OS matures and we're editing, Minority-Report-style, on a powerful 50-core multitouch display? Probably less than we think.

- Allan White, Video Producer, Luis Palau Assoc.

Quad 3Ghz Mac Pro, 10GB RAM, X1900 GPU, XSAN, CatDV Server


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Steve Connor
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 12:09:11 pm

If, as the rumours suggest, Apple is rewriting FCP from the ground up then I would imagine that is no small task. If we are going to get a new FCP then it'll happen when it's ready and we all have to make our planning decisions without knowing when.

For me PPCS5 is looking pretty good, however I'm very interested in the new edit tools in Avid MC5.



Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Wayne Carey
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 1:46:51 pm

Just as Walter said above...

These are all just tools that we need to use at different times. They all do something different. Fine. That's a good thing. Keeps the cost to us down and let's us pick and choose what we need. CS5 has tight integration, FCS3 not so much so.

As a 20 year veteran of this industry, I use different tools for different outcomes. When compositing images, sometimes I will use FCP, if its a simple composite. Sometimes, I'll use Motion. Mostly, I use After Effects. It just depends on the complexity and the tools needed to get that particular job done. That's it.

Unless you spend megabucks for a seriously high end edit system, you'll have to pick and choose what best fits your needs. It's just that simple. Ask yourself, what am I going to need to get my job done, and choose based on that.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com


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Dan Brockett
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 2:12:39 pm

Christopher:

If anything, I would be taking a serious look at AVID MC5, not Premier. Premier has always been a hobbyist application primarily. Not saying it is bad, it is not and the Mercury setup looks pretty cool, if you want to edit on a PC (shudder). If I was going to edit on a PC, it would be on an industry accepted standard tool like AVID. A lot of FCP editors are considering switching to AVID if Apple doesn't improve FCP soon, although we are back to sketchy integration with external apps. Now that AVID MC5 works with QuickTime though, you could feasibly keep using Motion, Soundtrack Pro, etc. along with AVID. Now there is an idea.

Premier has never been and may never be accepted as an industry standard. I would still want to use what the rest of the industry uses if I am doing work at a pro level. If you are a hobbyist or an "island" and NEVER interact with other systems and editors, colorists, sound designers, Premier is a good choice.

Dan

Providing value added material to all of your favorite DVDs


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Jeremy Doyle
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 2:34:36 pm

I'm guessing most FCP user are in the same boat as I am. I edit in FCP, but use AE and Photoshop daily. Because of this I have both the FCS and Adobe Production Suite on my machine. I'll be making the upgrade to CS5. By default I'll be getting PPro. My thought is that there are thousands of people that have PPro already installed and just never use it. Now with the mercury engine, it might be a time to give it a try. Heck, it is even supported by the Kona 3 in my box.

If you don't like it you can go back to FCP. What's it going to hurt to try it. I'll have a full copy of PPro on my machine regardless. Doubt I'll use it as FCP is kinda the standard, but it will be there to play with if I get an itch.



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Allan White
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:46:28 pm

I've heard they'll have to do this to FCP to get all the Carbon out, which they'll not support much longer. Adobe had to rewrite the CS apps - they've got leg up on that part. They really understand how to build good 64-bit Cocoa apps now.

Planning decisions: there's a sore spot with me now. Whatever its faults (and there are many), Adobe at least telegraphs its intentions and some features so people can plan (and look at the way they kick out some betas like Lightroom). Jobs' need for secrecy and grandstanding plays well in the consumer space, but us people who, you know, use their apps for a living have to live on rumors and wishes. It's just not compatible with their consumer-space attitude. It makes it really hard to plan.

At least I don't have to feel like I have to upgrade right away (since I don't know when that will be). I can let others shake the bugs out (which we all know CS5 will have). But, it'd be nice to know when stuff was coming - and whether we should stay on the FCP platform at all.

- Allan White, Video Producer, Luis Palau Assoc.

Quad 3Ghz Mac Pro, 10GB RAM, X1900 GPU, XSAN, CatDV Server


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Blayne Gorum
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 2:56:47 pm

For What it's worth: http://macsoda.com/2010/04/13/steve-jobs-next-final-cut-studio-will-be-awes...



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T. Payton
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:00:34 pm

I think utilizing the GPU for video editing will be revolutionary for our industry. However, Adobe didn't invent this stuff, they are just the first with a shipping product.

Apple created and is pushing the standard of Open CL which is a hardware independent version of Nvidia CUDA ( what the Mercery Playback engine is programmed in). Apple knows the future is in the stuff, I would just be patient while Apple creates a shipping product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL

Snow Leapord was the first OS to ship with Open CL last August, we are still just waiting for the development to catch up. Search on YouTube for some Open CL demos and you'll see some of the potential.

As a fellow who does about half print work and half video, After Effects CS4 on the Mac is stellar, but not without a few hickups. The rest of the creative suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Media Converter), is getting to be a bloated mess over the years. I can't even quit any of the apps anymore without those apps crashing (apparently a widespread problem.)

I'm not trying to throw Adobe under the bus, but I just think that any software is not without its problems.

If you are a FCP user and attracted by the great promise of the PPCS5, I would just give Apple a few months and see what they will offer.

My 2 cents.

- T.



------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Steve Connor
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:07:20 pm

Hadn't seen that quote from Steve Jobs, gives me some hope!

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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T. Payton
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:14:43 pm

Okay, I'll throw Adobe under the bus....

As I was writing my post a few minutes ago the infomous "Adobe Updater" popped up and wanted to update Acrobat Pro. In the middle of that it got "stuck" and left a dialog box on my screen that was unresponsive. The only way to remove it was to restart my Mac Pro.

Hopefully CS5 will be better.

Oh before I go I should point out that the only software that I would call bullet proof is Avid/DigiDesign ProTools. Never ever had a crash or a problem in 10 years. And they are slow on the upgrade, typically taking 6 months after a OS is released to certify it on a system, and when they certify it, it really works.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 4:37:10 pm

Steve Jobs comment (if true) gives some hope.

Regarding AVID vs FCP I don't see any difference really. We've had odd bugs hit us in our Protools setup and I had numerous crashes in our AVID setup at my old jobb when FCP was still gaining ground. From my experiances every system has it's good and bad days. FCP 6 / FCP 7 / AE CS4 have been stable enough in my book. AE CS3 was pretty horrible compared to AE7 though, but that might just be our particular setup / OS at the time.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 5:00:14 pm

I wouldn't invest in anything Avid. Have you seen their balance sheets?
I'm glad CS5 is coming out soon. Lights a fire under Apple a bit more to get the "next gen" right.

Kevin Monahan
60 Blu-ray Templates for Final Cut Studio 2009
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author - Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro


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Craig Shields
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 6:52:57 pm

Yes, that's exactly what competition does. It's a good thing. I'm not so sure that I would trust Adobe about now with PP. Last time they had a major beef with Apple, they recommended the PC (see PC Preferred), took their ball (Premier) and went home. Now there is this Flash thing. Mmmm... I don't know.



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Allan White
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 14, 2010 at 8:49:43 pm

Ha!



And, "[The] Folks who left were in support, not engineering. Next release will be awesome."

We'll see, but you think he'd trumpet something to the users. His attention is clearly elsewhere.

- Allan White, Video Producer, Luis Palau Assoc.

Quad 3Ghz Mac Pro, 10GB RAM, X1900 GPU, XSAN, CatDV Server


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Michael Gissing
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 15, 2010 at 1:31:45 am


Wow it is easy to spook the horses.


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Mark Petereit
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 15, 2010 at 12:18:14 pm

LOL! After we remove OS X from all our Mac Pros and bootcamp them all to Windows 7 so we can run CS5 we're all going out to celebrate by going cow tipping and snipe hunting.

Anyone want to come along?


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David Chai
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 15, 2010 at 9:18:48 pm

Don't forget to add that $1,500 Nvidia Quadro card to take advantage of that brand new Mercury engine. If it wasn't for Final Cut Pro, we would still be paying $50,000 for AVID (not that there's anything wrong with AVID). Final Cut Pro is an awesome work horse and I'm sure everyone here has made many hours of programs with it without having to mortgage the house.

Premiere CS4 has been buggy and slow, and while CS5 looks amazing in some areas, especially AE, I see no need to abandon FCP for Premiere. Apple have a lot of little areas to improve on, but they have a very solid product, and the new version will only be better.


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arc nevada
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 16, 2010 at 7:01:40 am

I think Avid was very expensive in the past. FCP was a way to edit film for less money provided you we not doing highend Special Effects. The Adobe Production Premium may start to take sales away from FCS because it is 64 BIT and integrates well with all the other Adobe products. FCS will get better but how long before FCP integrates with Aperture or iWeb integrates with Aperture? I used to use Edius but the integration of the Adobe Products made me switch real quick. There are some good tutorials at Adobe's website to see how great the integration is. Premiere is not a bad editor and is very much like FCP GUI wise. The Mercury Playback Engine will let you edit much faster. More graphics cards will be supported for Mercury before the CS 5 products ship.




The above link might be of some interest.


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 7:58:16 am

"The Adobe Production Premium may start to take sales away from FCS because it is 64 BIT and integrates well with all the other Adobe products."

What market do you work in by the way?

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 9:22:17 am

[Illya Laney] ""The Adobe Production Premium may start to take sales away from FCS because it is 64 BIT and integrates well with all the other Adobe products"
90% of PP users don't understand the difference between a 32 and 64b system.
Well, they understand that is the double of bits:-)
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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Illya Laney
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 9:29:54 am

I was quoting Arc, the 64 bit statement wasn't mine.

I agree, most Adobe users have no idea about the difference between 32 and 64 bit and I don't think anyone's going to migrate to Premiere just because of that. People still don't even really know how stable it's going to be.

Motion Design, Color, Editing
Simulated Wood Grain Cabinet Inc.
(Seriously though, that's the name on the paycheck)


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Rafael Amador
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 19, 2010 at 10:35:46 am

[Illya Laney] "I was quoting Arc, the 64 bit statement wasn't mine."
I know.
We have to understand that the PP boys haven't had much to cheer about and now they are excited. Seems that some how they blame FC for this 10 years of frustration.
I promise, when the next FC release, don't to go to the PP forum to shout that FC is again better than PP.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bruce N. Goren
Re: Does FCS hold a candle to Adobe anymore?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 4:20:42 pm

I had been using Premiere exclusively for a few years, but after moving to San Francisco it became clear to me that in this market most of the work requires Final Cut Studio. Both are great applications which will continue to improve over time. I'll keep using both going forward.

Bruce N. Goren
"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"
John Wooden, Basketball Coach


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