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ajay bhadresa
LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 9:36:32 pm

Hi all,

I've just updated my old JVC CRT monitor to an FSI LM-1760W monitor and just had a question regarding audio sync.

I'm running a Kona LHe card and have connected to the FSI monitor via HD SDI and I'm monitoring the audio from the XLR out of the Kona to my mixer. I've recently noticed that the audio is behind the FSI monitor by a few frames and if I enable the internal speaker on the monitor then it's fine. I have tried using the built in audio disembedding feature on the monitor but the resulting audio seems quite poor in comparison to the XLR out from the Kona (although if I do this then the audio is in sync). Is there anything that can be done to correct this? I've heard a rumour that AJA may be implementing an audio delay feature, would this help? Funnily enough I'm also running an Avid Mojo on the same system but the audio is fine with that.

Many thanks!


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ajay bhadresa
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 9:45:29 pm

Incidentally, I've set the monitor to the fast processing mode too.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 9:48:34 pm

Simply change the frame offset to 0 from its default of 4.



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ajay bhadresa
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 10:12:00 pm

Hi David,

Thanks for the reply. My frame offset is already set to 4 and if I'm otherwise mistaken that seem to alter the sync between the Canvas and the monitor.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 10:17:44 pm

[ajay bhadresa] "My frame offset is already set to 4"

Read more closely my friend... I told you to change it to "0" from "4" as I showed you in the picture. I knew yours was set to 4 because that is the default, and it is wrong if you're running audio through a Kona card.

[ajay bhadresa] "if I'm otherwise mistaken that seem to alter the sync between the Canvas and the monitor."

No! That fixes your issue. Just do it...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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ajay bhadresa
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 10:58:42 pm

Hi David,

Apologies for not reading your post correctly :-) I've changed it to 0 and the issue still occurs. If I mute the Kona output and listen to the built in speaker then it is in sync.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 19, 2009 at 11:47:17 pm

That's very odd Ajay. Setting the frame offset to "0" typically fixes the Kona sync problem instantly for all users. Meanwhile, you should leave it set to "0". That is the proper setting.

Next, if I were you, I would uninstall and then reinstall the Kona drivers. That might clear up your issue. There is an uninstall utility that came with your driver and you can find it in the Kona directory in the Applications folder.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Carsten Orlt
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 12:49:39 am

The one thing that confuses me is that you say the audio is behind the picture of the FSI.

Normally LCD's cause at least a 1 frame delay so your audio out from the XLR's should be 1 frame ahead?

Yes and the only 2 solution are: if the FSI compensates the audio out from the embedded SDI signal internally, or as you say a video delay adjustment for the Kona (as Aja has in the ioHD drivers, which I have)

and your correct the audio offset in FCP only adjust the canvas to external video delay. It does NOT adjust video-audio sync issues within external signals.

Cheers

Carsten


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 1:48:58 am

What format are you using and what format is going to the monitor?


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ajay bhadresa
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 10:44:04 am

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. Does anyone know if AJA will be adding the delay option to the LHe card software at all? I would use the built in audio disembedder on the monitor but the quality is really bad. The current project I'm working on is a DV Pal Project and the monitor is set to 625i25 8bit.

Thanks


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 1:41:35 pm

[ajay bhadresa] "Does anyone know if AJA will be adding the delay option to the LHe card software at all?"

Not sure if they are planning to, but you can certainly email them and politely ask them if they might include it in a future update.

Does the delay happen with any other format? With DV PAL and an FSI monitor, the image is getting scaled, deinterlaced, and aspect ratio corrected, plus whatever other processing is being applied before being displayed.

Jeremy


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walter biscardi
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 1:49:10 pm

[ajay bhadresa] " I would use the built in audio disembedder on the monitor but the quality is really bad"

Are you feeding the audio outputs from the monitor to your speakers or just trying to use the on-board speaker? The on-board speaker is not great, but it sounds great if you feed the output to high quality audio monitors. We've tried that here and it sounds the same as if we're feeding from the Konas.



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Jason Boucher
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Dec 2, 2009 at 8:44:14 pm

Walter,

Are you feeding your audio to speakers though your FSI outs? With a mixer in between? Any known differences between this and the silly analog RCA outs on the K3Box?

As posted on another string, I'm finding best sync with DVCPro 1080i with a 4 frame offset.

THanks!
Jason

greydogcreative.com


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walter biscardi
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Dec 2, 2009 at 9:13:45 pm

[Jason Boucher] "Are you feeding your audio to speakers though your FSI outs? With a mixer in between? Any known differences between this and the silly analog RCA outs on the K3Box?"

I use the Digital out of the Kbox through to an ADA 4 converter to my Mackie Mixer to the speakers.

The analog outputs on the KBox are not silly actually, they're just fine to feed to quality speakers and many people do this.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
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Jason Boucher
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Dec 3, 2009 at 1:27:03 am

I know they're not really silly, it just always struck me funny to see them on a piece of high-end equipment. (I know the KBox is only a couple hundred bucks, but analog XLRs seem like a much better professional connection)

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll have to try it out through the FSI, just for kicks. That ADA converter seems the best way to go.

Thanks again Walter.

greydogcreative.com


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walter biscardi
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 2:47:57 am

You will require an offset of 1 to 3 for the FSI monitors. For 720p we run 1 or 2 I think, and for 1080i I think we run 3.

This is due to the processing.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post

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David Roth Weiss
Re: LCD Sync issues
on Sep 20, 2009 at 4:41:58 pm

[walter biscardi] "You will require an offset of 1 to 3 for the FSI monitors. For 720p we run 1 or 2 I think, and for 1080i I think we run 3.

This is due to the processing. "


That's good to know, I will store that in memory for future reference.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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