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paul colin
Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 2:32:34 pm

To All,
I posted this the other day but was buried under a flurry of many many posts. So I thought I'd try again.
Doing a show that's aprox. 40 min. TRT. It's a 1080i ProRes422 project.
The final product will be a SD DVD. Can someone please advise me as to the very best settings in Compressor for optimum quality.(especially the GOP settings)
I'm running FCP studio 2. The show will ultimately be projected on a large screen, so I would like to deliver the sharpest image possible.
Thanks in advance.

Paul Colin
Cezanne Studio, NYC

Mac Pro/2.6 Ghz/ 8 core/ 7GB ram/ Kona 3 card
Cal Digit 4 TB media drive


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Rafael Amador
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 3:40:07 pm

Paul,
This question have been answered here tree millions times.
Important is that you set "Frame Control: ON" and the resizing filter BETTER or BEST.
About the GOPs an that, if your program is 40 minutes and have only one audio channel, you may set Sort/Open GOPs and rise the Average data rate to 7,5 (7,7) and Max data rate 8,5 or so.
Rise the data rate of the AC3 over 300 Kbps. Great soung.
You may try to push more those values. I haven't tried for me works great for short programs.
Best,
rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 4:41:56 pm

"Sort/Open GOPs and rise the Average data rate to 7,5 (7,7) and Max data rate 8,5 or so"

Thanks Rafael,
I am familiar with the quality settings. But I was asking about the GOP settings: GOP structure/GOP size/OPEN or CLOSED found under the GOP tab.
I don't know whether changing GOP will affect image quality.
That was the essence of my question.

Thanks again for your help!
Best,
Paul



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Shane Ross
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 3:46:37 pm

[paul colin] "The final product will be a SD DVD"

Then just take your HD show into compressor.

#42 - Quick and dirty way to author a DVD

Shane's Stock Answer #42 - David Roth Weiss' Secret Quick and Dirty Way to Author a DVD:

The absolute simplest way to make a DVD using FCP and DVDSP is as follows:

1. Export a QT movie, either a reference file or self contained using current settings.

2. Open DVDSP, select the "graphical" tab and you will see two little monitors, one blue, one green.

3. Select the left blue one and hit delete.

4. Now, select the green one, right click on it amd select the top option "first play".

5. Now drag your QT from the broswer and drop it on top of the green monitor.

6. Now, for a DVD from an HD source, look to the right side and select the "general tab" in the track editor, and see the Display Mode, and select "16:9 pan-scan."

7. Hit the little black and yellow burn icon at the top of the page and put a a DVD in when prompted. DVDSP will encode and burn your new DVD.

THATS ALL!!!

NOW...if you want a GOOD LOOKING DVD, instead of taking your REF movie into DVD SP, instead take it into Compressor and choose the BEST QUALITY ENCODE (2 pass VBR) that matches your show timing. Then take THAT result into DVD SP and follow the rest of the steps. Except you can choose "16:9 LETTERBOX" instead of PAN & SCAN if you want to see the entire image.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 4:44:24 pm

Shane,
Thanks for your speedy reply.
I was asking whether there is a trick to choosing something special in the GOP settings in Compressor under the GOP settings tab.
Is there?
Best,
Paul




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Shane Ross
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 5:40:08 pm

[paul colin] " was asking whether there is a trick to choosing something special in the GOP settings in Compressor under the GOP settings tab. "

NO clue...what GOP settings?


Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 7:08:56 pm

Hi Shane,
There is a tab in the inspector labeled GOP. Under that tab there are settings: GOP structure, GOP size and Open or closed radio buttons.
That's what I was referring to.
Thanks,
Paul



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Brad Elliott
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 6:26:31 pm

In my experience I have gotten the best results with these settings.

IBBP
Closed GOP
size 15

MPG files for DVD need to be closed. Stand alone MPGs(muxed with sound) should be open.

IBBP is the best setting for compression.


Brad


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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 6:40:08 pm

Thank you Brad.
That's the info I was looking for. And in your experience will this be the best setting for files originating as HD?

Thanks again and best,
Paul



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Brad Elliott
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 9:34:25 pm

Paul,

15 frame IBBP GOPs are going to give you the best quality for either SD or HD
.
I have never compressed MPGs for DVD without using IBBP. I can't think of an application for DVD that would call for anything but IBBP if you want it to look as good as possible.

I don't usually compress GOPs at less than fifteen but I know experts play with GOP size and data rates to compress the most footage and have it look the best. I've have never delved in it that far but I think it is usually done by people using really expensive hardware encoders.

Brad



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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 9:58:57 pm

Thanks Brad, I'll try with this configuration



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Michael Sacci
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 9:41:36 pm

GOP setting doesn't have that much to do with quality. So you are worrying about the wrong thing. I never mess with it.

From 1080i 40 minutes the best (and FASTEST) codec settings are,

For the Field Dominance - Keep it as UPPER (this may sound wrong but since your source is UPPER it will play correctly in SD.

Encode: CBR 7.5 Mbps (when you are this high it is a waste of time to use VBR and high VBR rates can and will cause playback problems on DVD-R. This is also greatly speed up the encode. This is a win-win for you, better and faster.

There is normally no need to turn on Frames for downconverting but you may want to do a test both ways. Frames is a time killer.



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paul colin
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 15, 2009 at 9:58:10 pm

Thanks Michael, that's a big help.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 16, 2009 at 1:58:53 am

Hi Paul,
The more "I" frames (original) you set, the better your movie will look but you will need to rise the data rate accordingly to sustain more "I" frames. Think that with a "IP" structure you have one "I" every two frames, instead of one every 15 with the standard GOP.
What I recommend you is to use Open GOPs. BitVice and CinemaCraft set them by default. And never
use CBR.

[Brad Elliott] "MPG files for DVD need to be closed. Stand alone MPGs(muxed with sound) should be open. "
This is not correct. I master the DVDs with Short/Open GOPs and works perfect.


Best,
rafael




http://www.nagavideo.com


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Brad Elliott
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 16, 2009 at 3:24:30 pm

Rafael,

All of Compressor's presets are closed GOP.

I have read that closed GOPs are recommended for DVDSP and that closed GOPs are required for multi-angle DVDs.

Am I mistaken?

My opinion on short GOPs is based on our hardware encoding card's presets. 90 minutes or longer use shorter GOPs while 60 minutes or less have 15 frame GOPs.

What advantages have you found in using shorter GOPs?

Brad



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Rafael Amador
Re: Compressor settings for HD to SD
on Sep 16, 2009 at 4:04:58 pm

Hi Brad,
You need to duplicate the preset and set "Video Format" to NTSC or PAL. Don't let it in Auto. Then you will be able to tweak the GOPs.

[Brad Elliott] "My opinion on short GOPs is based on our hardware encoding card's presets. 90 minutes or longer use shorter GOPs while 60 minutes or less have 15 frame GOPs. "
Right. Long GOPs means less "I" frames. You can low the data rate so you can put longer movies in a DVD.
Short GOPs means more "I" frames. There are more original pictures that are used as refference for compression and de-compression. You can achieve more quality.

I told you, is interesting to use Open GOPs. Closed GOPs have one "I" frame that is the "reference " frame.
With Open GOPs, each GOP use his "I"frame, but also uses the GOP before as reference.

[Brad Elliott] "I have read that closed GOPs are recommended for DVDSP and that closed GOPs are required for multi-angle DVDs. Am I mistaken?"
DVDSTP doesn't care much about the GOPs. Only in the case of Multi-angle DVDs there is the limitation that you points. As I told you, by default BitVice and CinemaCraft works with Open GOPs.
Are you making a multi-angle DVD?
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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