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roberto pierson
final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 1:42:20 am

hi everybody, im edeting a documentary and adding subtitles; my quesstion is; is livefont a better way to go than to use the fcp text??
thanks
rob


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Arnie Schlissel
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 2:22:20 am

It would be best for you to us the Boris 3D text generator that's included with FCP. That gives you better quality text than FCP's "native" generator, plus it can more easily do outlines and drop shadows.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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Shane Ross
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 3:31:11 am

Well, I disagree here. The TEXT tool in FCP, when it comes to subtitles, it well suited. Easy access and simple...no separate interface to go into. I work on a HEAVILY subtitled show, and this is what we do. Lower thirds are all Boris Title 3D because of the need to have different font sizes in the same title, but for the simple text, I use the TEXT tool and the quality is fine.



Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Nick Meyers
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 6:04:32 am

what Shane says.
Boris and Livetype are ng for subtitles.


the best text tool for subtitles is Andreas Kiel's "Text Up Pro"

<http://www.spherico.de/filmtools/textUp/index.html>

this has many settings for adding outlines, bg boxes, and a dropshadow.
it can also be justified in any direction:
bottom, top, center (handy for text blocks)
PLUS it auto-wraps.
(not always perfectly, but it gets you there faster)


also handy for subtitling work is Andreas's "TItle Exchange Pro"
<http://www.spherico.de/filmtools/>
check it out.


nick



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Bouke Vahl
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 11:26:59 am

Have to disagree with Shane.
For subtitles you need a fixed anchor, shadow AND outline.
The standard FCP text generators don't do this.

Andreas' plugin is fine (as all the work he does).
There is also the free one that comes with my subtitle tool.
(Download the demo, it's free and you can rip out the Edit 'B text plugin)
http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=12
There is a demo video on that page as well.

When it comes to subtitling massive amounts,
a dedicated subtitle program will help tremendously.

One example, the mentioned automatic text breaking:
Subbits gives you control over your line break without moving the cursor, just CTRL arrow Up / Down will set the line break a word earlier / later.

This makes the quality MUCH better,
as your line break will be in a logical place.

vs
This makes the quality MUCH better, as
your line break will be in a logical place.

I'm always willing to help / support / answer questions about it, but not this week as i'm off on holiday.

hth,


Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro's


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Andreas Kiel
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 19, 2009 at 3:14:34 pm

Bouke is right.

Subbits is a real great tool to set up subtitles and it comes with a lot of options to make subtitles better quality.

TitleExchange is a more 'in-between' app it will allow to move subtitles around between several apps (including Subbits) or do batch changes of subtitles for a FCP project more or less regardless which generator you used.

And that's the reason why I always say Boris is a NO GO for subtitles - it's a closed system. If you need text changes there is NO way to do this with Boris in an automatic way. Also if you got your subtitles from another company or co-worker you will get a hard time to get them into Boris. Same thing if you want to get them out - maybe for second language - no way.
And that - I think - is bad especially for documentaries. So I disagree with the method Arnie and Shane mentioned to do anything with Boris when it comes to subtitles (if there only a few it's okay). In Shane's case it's maybe an option because they want to use different font sizes within same title (where I think it's not a good idea to do that for translation subtitles). The better alternative is to use Motion. You can create your own templates and go from there. Motion templates will allow to get all text out or in any way.
In any case the right settings will give good quality subtitles. The limitation of burned in subtitles is limited by out format/codec and not really by the generator.

So the way to go with FCP
First go and make a good plan. Think about 'more then one language' issues also upfront
Maybe you (or somebody else) use Subbits or BelleNuit to time and create your subtitles outside FCP. This has the option that you always do have some kind of backup of your subtitles.
You may also time your subtitles within FCP which can be more tedious. But you can do it or even just create empty subtitles a those places subtitles should start and use those empty ones as placeholder with either TitleExchange or Subbits to create a basic start timing you can give out to anybody for translation.
You even can just set markers and use them with TitleExchange.
It depends on your workflow - which needs to be planned carefully.

Generators to be used:
(to confirm Bouke - normally subtitles need a fixed anchor on the bottom of the screen)
use Bouke's free subtitle generator
use my free subtitle generator (Textup 2 - no wrap)
use my commercial subtitle generator (Textup Pro - wrap and more features)
use the commercial subtitle generator from DH
use a Motion Template, which never does have the option to anchor text at bottom, but you can create several - 1-line, 2-line etc.
Important thing is that any of these subtitle generators are 'open' so even without any additional software you can make easily changes within an XML exported from FCP with a text editor. Boris and some FX based generators won't allow that.*


Hope that helps
Andreas



*) I got a 'last minute customer' last night who was due on delivery with about 2000 subtitles to be changed within a timeline. Good luck for him that he didn't use Boris. With TitleExchange it was done within a few minutes and he met the deadline - probably still with not enough sleep.

Few days ago another customer from a social .org:
>I'm trying to get our educational video translated into Italian for a presentation in Italy tomorrow >night, and this will really help.
--
>Great - worked like a charm. Thanks again!
>We were able to screen material in Italy with your help.

This doesn't mean that you have to buy TitleExchange, Subbits or any other app and it doesn't mean that Boris is bad. It does mean that you have to plan your stuff.


Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools


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Joe Bender
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 20, 2009 at 6:42:53 am

@Andreas

I have a 60-min video in Russian and Kazakh subbed in English, with the subs timed manually in FCP, and need to change the font/size/position. I know that in principle I can export as an XML, strip the titles in TitleExchange, and reimport into FCP using a new template. However, I tried it with the demo version before deciding whether to buy TEP and couldn't get it to work. Can you lay out the workflow for me or point me to step-by-step instructions?

Thanks!

Joe


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Joe Bender
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 20, 2009 at 7:05:59 am

@Andreas

Apologies for the multiple post, I redownloaded TEP and think I figured out the workflow, but I can't test it because TEP won't let me export as an XML file. Is this a limitation of the non-registered version? If so, is there any way I can test the XML export without buying?

Thanks again!

Joe


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Andreas Kiel
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 20, 2009 at 5:17:25 pm

Hi Joe,

The reason you can't try XML is that TEP obviously was installed at your machine some time ago (longer than 30 days) and so TEP will always falls back to STL as output format.
I've uploaded a new version which ignores the old installation date(s), so download again and give it a try. If there are still problems, let me know.

Regards
Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools


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Fredy Schwerdtner
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 10, 2010 at 6:37:32 am

Hi Shane,
I've already read some of your posts around here. Tonight I was looking for some advice on subtitling and I stoped at this post of yours. I know it was written a year ago but I was just thinking the same : I've got tired of people talking about this or that software or plugins to subtitle a video / movie. I couldn't understand why a editing video software like FCP was not able to do it ? and moreover : Why people demonized so much the text generator inside FCP ?
I will give FCP a chance.

Thanks.

MacBook Pro 17"
2.5 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM
(2) External HD LaCieMac (400/800 FW and USB)with 500GB -(2) USB External HD Western Digital (in cases) with 750GB
OS X 10.5.7
Final Cut Studio 2


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Bouke Vahl
Re: final cut pro and livefont for subtitles
on Jul 10, 2010 at 6:47:39 am

[Fredy Schwerdtner] "I've got tired of people talking about t"

Kudos.
I would love to see more people acting like this, just try out for themselves and see what works and what not, before relying on other (most of the time biased or ignorant) random internet finds.

Having said this, you will be back if you are going to do battle with the FCP generators :-)



Bouke

http://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros


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