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Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p

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john lawlor
Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p
on Jun 15, 2009 at 8:36:27 pm

HI Forum

I'm having a little bit of an issue with my Sony EX1 camera. I am currently having a great time with the camera, everything is working so well, and the quality is amazing. The thing i love most about this camera is the speed of capturing the footage to my computer...pure genuis.


The issue that i am having at the moment is the frame rates etc. I am filming and editing 60p, which is fine, as i know that i can export to 30p at any stage if needed (most likely it will be exported to 29.97fps for a DVD at the end of the year). I shoot a lot of Slow motion stuff, action sports stuff, bikes mostly, and is is annoying having to change the video standard from 720p60 to 720p30 to avail of the S&Q motion option that the EX1 offers.

Here's my confusion... And the issue that i need clarification on...

What is the difference shooting 720p60, slowing down 50% afterwards in FCP, and shooting 720p30 with the S&Q motion set to 60? At the moment I cannot find any difference in the footage when it is slowed down on a 60p timeline in FCP. I have found that it is better not to frame blend when slowing down by 50%, as the frame blending option only adds ghosting when exported.

Of course there is the difference that you don't get audio when shooting 720p30 S&Q motion 60, but is there any difference in actual video quality, or quality of each frame recored at each of the settings?

To me, it seems pointless to change from 60p to 30p, only to up the frame rate to 60fps (which is what the S&Q Motion setting does) The end result of both of these options seems, to me, to be a time line which plays back footage at 50% speed, at 30fps.

Would this be an accurate description?

So Forum, Can anyone clear this debate up that I am having with myself.

Thanks John Lawlor


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Rafael Amador
Re: Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p
on Jun 16, 2009 at 1:38:48 am

[john lawlor] "What is the difference shooting 720p60, slowing down 50% afterwards in FCP, and shooting 720p30 with the S&Q motion set to 60?"
When you capture p60, you are using 35 Mb to write 60 pictures (1 second).
when you record 30p Overcrancked to p60, you are using 35 Mb to write 30 picture.
In the second case each picture can hold double data than in the first.
Each picture is compressed a 50% less when overcrancked.
For me it makes no much sense to record p60 when you are finishing in p30. Somewhere you have to discharge the half of your pictures.
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bob Pierce
Re: Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p
on Jun 16, 2009 at 1:14:41 pm

Rafael,
Are you sure about this? Overcranking (Sony calls it S&Q) with the EX results in a 60p file, just like a 60p file shot normally. How does this affect the data rate? Also, in overcranking we're not throwing away frames - we're using each frame to create the slow motion effect. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

Anyway, on the question of overcranking vs. motion effect in Final cut, there's also the effect of motion blur. Shooting S&Q allows you to use a slower shutter speed, which can add a nice smoothness to your slo mo footage.

Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.5 - Quicktime 7.5.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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Bob Pierce
Re: Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p
on Jun 16, 2009 at 1:19:08 pm

Just re-read the original comment. John was speaking of converting to 30p, which would result in throwing away half of the frames. When doing a downconvert to NTSC, you can work directly from your 60p master, which will result in a standard def video in which each field is derived from a progressive frame. No need to go to 30p.
Bob

http://www.lightstreamassociates.com

Mac Pro 2.66 - 8GB memory - Mac OS 10.5.5 - Quicktime 7.5.5 -
Mac Book Pro 2.33 Duo -
FC Studio 2 (Final Cut 6.0.4) - Kona Lhe
Adobe Production Suite CS3 -
Sony Multiformat 14" - Panasonic 42" Plasma -
Ikegami HLDV7 - PVW EX-1



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john lawlor
Re: Sony EX1... 60p vs 30p
on Jun 17, 2009 at 7:21:36 pm

Hi Guys

I have linked to two clips, both shot at different frame rates, but with both seemingly ending up with the exact same result.



Let me know what you think of either clip. I know they're compressed, but there is no stuttering on the 60p clip slowed down in FCP. I know there is probably a higher data rate on the 30p clip overcranked, but to the naked eye, i don't think it's noticeable.

Thanks for the sound advice.

John


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