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One little nice thing I miss about Tiger

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Mark PalmosOne little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 20, 2007 at 9:22:40 pm

Hello all,

In tiger, you can set a keyboard command to show the Dock, and then once it is showing, you can press the < and > keys until you find the application you want, then you press Enter and whammo, your app starts, no mouse necessary - just like one can do so gracefully in Windows XP...

But in Leopard if you show the Dock, the arrow keys do nothing but select desktop icons.

I have also noticed that many times when a requester pops up, you cannot toggle between the three or four options via the tab key, though this does with the shutdown requester.

In windows pretty much everything has a keyboard command, and usually if there is a popup requester you press Alt-and then the first letter if the word.

Seems weird. Are the guys making macOS sleeping? There is so much power but basic stuff, ease of use stuff is just plain missing.

Tips graciously accepted!
catcha later
Mark.


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DM FloydRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 20, 2007 at 9:36:10 pm

I hate Leopard...why can't I download a file from email(non .mac account thru safari) and not have it add a .html extension to it so it unuseable. I have tried everything...none of my products are compatible, like my wacom tablet....built for mac intel or ppc...what about us on power mac G5s just trying to upgrade. Leopard does not come with any ilife products, gone is iphoto, idvd, imovie...I have to buy iLife for an extra cost and iLife'08 stinks from what I have read...photo booth crashes everytime it opens...this product is very unstable.



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Jeff CarpenterRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 21, 2007 at 6:05:38 pm

iLife came with your Mac. Use the original installation discs that came with the computer to re-install them. You can choose which programs you want to load and which you don't.

iLife '08 is much better than the old one, but if you're determined to stick with what you're used to, you can get the old versions back this way.


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John DavidsonRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 21, 2007 at 6:52:43 pm

iLife '08 is a must-have upgrade, in my opine. Some folks hate the new imovie, but I use final cut so it's not that relevant to me. Integration with dot mac and iphoto's web gallery setup is nothing short of great.

I'm about 80% into Leopard. The nagging 20% will likely be fixed in the 10.5.2 update expected to come by macworld.


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Darby EdelenRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 26, 2007 at 6:22:26 am

[Mark Palmos] "In tiger, you can set a keyboard command to show the Dock, and then once it is showing, you can press the < and > keys until you find the application you want, then you press Enter and whammo, your app starts, no mouse necessary - just like one can do so gracefully in Windows XP..."

The keyboard shortcut to access the dock for keyboard navigation is not the same as the keyboard shortcut to show/hide the dock by default. The default show/hide combo is cmd-opt-d and the default combo to use the keyboard to navigate the dock is ctrl-F3 (in Tiger anyway).

[Mark Palmos] "I have also noticed that many times when a requester pops up, you cannot toggle between the three or four options via the tab key, though this does with the shutdown requester."

I think this is something that needs to be supported by the application. For example, in 10.4.11 this is possible in Text Edit but not possible in Adobe Photoshop CS.

[Mark Palmos] "In windows pretty much everything has a keyboard command, and usually if there is a popup requester you press Alt-and then the first letter if the word."

The same thing is usually true on a Mac. Return defaults to the... default button. Esc is usually 'Cancel.' Cmd-d is usually 'Don't Save.' And so on, but again, these are determined by the application and not the OS.

[Mark Palmos] "There is so much power but basic stuff, ease of use stuff is just plain missing."

*ease of use stuff is just plain different.

Things that make perfect sense to someone who is familiar with Windows don't make sense to someone familiar with OS X, and vice versa obviously.

Darby Edelen
Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA


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Darby EdelenRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 26, 2007 at 6:24:23 am

P.S. I think it's great how the issues/questions raised by the original poster were largely (not entirely) ignored and the thread was used as an opportunity to complain about Leopard. Nice...

Darby Edelen
Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA


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Mark PalmosRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 26, 2007 at 10:56:28 am

Hi Darby

[Darby Edelen] "The keyboard shortcut to access the dock for keyboard navigation is not the same as the keyboard shortcut to show/hide the dock by default."

yeah, i got that a couple of days ago, and it one CAN access the dock icons without a mouse.

you misunderstood what i meant about the menu commands in windows vs osx. In windows you dont have to know the keyboard shortcut commands to be able to access them, every single menu has one leter which is underlined, and when you press ALT-letterunderlined, the menu expands. Down arrow moves the highlight to browse the items you want. Right arrow moves you to the next menu etc, so you never have to use the mouse to access commands, even if you dont know the keyboard command in Windows.

AFAIK there is no way to do this in OSX, its not different in OSX, it is missing! (and there are several other missing elements in OSX)

I wonder why a professional application like Photoshop or Final Cut would not allow you to use the keyboard to toggle between options on the requester pop ups? In windows there is no choice, the user always has the full power of what is available, and like the menu paradigm, all pop ups have a keyboard shortcut to get there quickly, like ALT-C to cancel, ALT-O for OK etc...

Its not just a question of "different ways" of doing the same thing - in these examples OSX seems retarted as there is no way to do it without a mouse. (AFAIK)

Mark.


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Darby EdelenRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 26, 2007 at 4:42:08 pm

[Mark Palmos] "Its not just a question of "different ways" of doing the same thing - in these examples OSX seems retarted as there is no way to do it without a mouse. (AFAIK)"

I told you that if you're in a Save dialog, Return = Save, Esc = Cancel and Cmd+d = Don't Save as one example. Even though Photoshop doesn't support tabbing between buttons it supports these key combos. In the Shutdown dialog you mentioned, Return = Shutdown, Esc = Cancel, R = Restart, S = Sleep. These key combos are determined by the producer of the software (outside of return and esc), but are often incredibly obvious.

There are standards for how an application is supposed to look and behave under OS X, but it is up to the person who creates the application to follow them.

I have worked flawlessly without a mouse on my Mac in the past, it's just slower. As I said before, it takes familiarity with the system. By the way, ctrl-F2 allows you to navigate the menu bar with your keyboard.

Darby Edelen
Designer
Left Coast Digital
Santa Cruz, CA


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Craig AlanRe: One little nice thing I miss about Tiger
by on Dec 30, 2007 at 8:44:33 pm

Thanks for F2 and ESC hints. Mousing in a save dialog window to the cancel button (and then mousing back to my place in the source window) has always been a pain. Control F2 is a great way to browse all the menu items in any app when you have forgotten or don


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