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How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?

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Rob Youngberg
How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 4, 2019 at 7:33:29 pm

Hi, I have two questions on dealing moire during a shoot (not in post).

Our in-house corporate studio recently upgraded from the Panasonic AF100 to the Ursa Mini Pro 4.6K. We love it but we get a lot more moire, limiting wardrobe options. (It's the fun multi-colored moire that can't be eliminated with a blur in post.)

Our current way to detect moiré is to record a few seconds of a shirt, transfer the footage to a laptop and review it in Premiere Pro. (We may not see any on our monitor, but then we see it in Premiere.)

We plan to replace our old 17" 1080p monitor soon as well.

Does anyone know of a better, quicker way to detect moire while recording? A better monitor, for example? If so, any spec recommendations for a camera with SDI out, 4.6K resolution, or how to find one that does this? I've talked to monitor salespeople about my problem and they make me feel like I'm the only person who's ever dealt with this.

2nd question: do you have any recommendations on reducing/eliminating moire while recording? (Not talking about post techniques.) I'm aware of things like the Rawlite OLPF, but I'm wondering if there's a less-invasive option that's worked for people that doesn't cost $425.

First-time post here. Thanks in advance!


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Chris Wright
Re: How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 5, 2019 at 5:37:40 pm

Shooting RAW reduces moire over Prores as the moire is not burned in yet. The Rawlite OLPF is probably the highest quality option and it also includes a free IR filter built in. Cheaper options will visibly reduce contrast like Promist 1/8. To find moire, you'd want to accentuate the flicker effect. You can do this by recording a monitor from another video recorder and offsetting the framerate. The moire flicker will be very pronounced.


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Mark Suszko
Re: How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 9, 2019 at 3:51:59 pm

A no-cost option is to change the camera-to-subject distance, change your focal length. But obviously, this isn't always compatible with the needs of the shot.

Have you tried "de-tuning" the camera sensor at all? Sometimes, an artificial sharpening feature might be left on from another job, make sure that's off.


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Todd Terry
Re: How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 9, 2019 at 4:09:45 pm

Good technical suggestions from Chris and Mark... heed them both.

From a stopping-the-problem-before-it-starts standpoint, are you in a position where you can simply tell your subjects "Please don't wear that."

We do that all the time.

Obviously when we are shooting, say, a commercial, we have complete control over wardrobe, so it's not an issue at all.

In the corporate world, it's a little trickier of course, and you can't always do this... but many many times we have implored subjects, even CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, to simply wear something else. We've frequently shot with the very top dog at a $14 billion (yes, billion with a "B") company who has a penchant for buzzy glen plaid suits... and I won't hesitate for a second to ask him to wear something else, or take off his jacket, if needed. He makes more every 10 minutes than I do in a year, but my job is to make him look good so I feel free to speak up about it.

I'm showing my age with this story... but in the later years of The Tonight Show there was a period where Johnny Carson would sometimes wear this particular jacket, you'd see it pop up in his "suit rotation" every two or three weeks. It was a very busy black-and-white houndstooth, and it would moire and practically throb and buzz on camera (and imagine this in the old analog days on your 25" console Magnavox TV). It was terrible. Carson was the king of his show (and pretty much all TV) and was known for being fairly unapproachable, so I always suspected there were just no wardrobe people or even producers brave enough to say "Johnny, don't wear that, it looks terrible on TV." But someone should have.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Todd Terry
Re: How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 9, 2019 at 4:23:22 pm

Haaa... this might have even been the exact jacket....

https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/movie-tv-memorabilia/costumes/johnny-carso...

It is tempting....

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark Suszko
Re: How to See Moire (Moiré) While Shooting?
on Oct 9, 2019 at 4:27:03 pm

Well, he did sell those suits, you know... Still, you'd think he'd notice it himself, watching playbacks of his show.

Back in prehistoric times in Chicago TV, there was a certain sportscaster notorious for his really loud and ugly sport oats, which invariably would not only moire' all over the place, but give the camera shaders fits in other ways as well. It was especially fun to engage the chromakey effects while those coats were on the air.


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