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Chris Dukes
SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 26, 2019 at 1:18:27 pm

Hi,

Has anyone heard of 256GB CF2.0 cards having trouble with 4K shoots that are over an hour? Meaning, recording 4K continuously (no cuts) for over an hour can result in artifacts and skipped frames. I've heard this a couple of times from DPs, so I'm just trying to see if it's legitimate or just a rumor.

Thanks,
Chris

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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 27, 2019 at 3:13:02 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Mar 27, 2019 at 3:14:18 pm

I have one of those, I had it skip on 1080p60 footage, but did a full format and haven’t had issues with it. I could try rolling for an hour at 4K and seeing what happens.


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john sharaf
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 27, 2019 at 3:33:50 pm

I've come to learn from ARRI that the SanDisk Extreme Pro cards are highly susceptible to failure, especially at high data rates and long clip lengths. The issue is heat and the damage it creates. What ARRI has done is create a test jig that their cards are subjected to and report that as many as 25% fail. They charge a premium for their cards that are "qualified" this way, and they are the only cards I use now for my own work and especially for rental. I understand that most folks buy their kits with cheap price being the most important characteristic, but in the case of media, I would advise otherwise

JMHO

JS



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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 28, 2019 at 1:17:07 am

[john sharaf] "I understand that most folks buy their kits with cheap price being the most important characteristic, but in the case of media, I would advise otherwise"

Sandisk is not cheap media.


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john sharaf
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 28, 2019 at 3:05:33 am

Yes it is compared to the Arri certified version



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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 28, 2019 at 5:02:23 pm

[john sharaf] "Yes it is compared to the Arri certified version"

It's the same card, just one of the ones that didn't fail Arri's tests. Doesn't mean it will never fail though. On top of that, I can't even purchase one, because it's limited to Studio-B&H professional customers.

Even so, it's still the same card that Sandisk sells, it's not like a different brand or manufacture. They just rigorously test it and slap on a comfortable margin. There's buying cheap eBay CFast cards, then Sandisk, then this is the next level. It's why you can't just up and order one.


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john sharaf
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 28, 2019 at 6:31:25 pm

HI Gary,

Maybe B&H won't sell it to you, but ARRI will

The point is that not even two Sandisk cards come out of the factory the same. This is similar to why there's so many bad LED lights, inconsistency in their production and low standards in many light manufacturers in choosing (or testing for) qualified elements among the stock they bought. Those manufactures that are very choosy charge more. It's logical to pay more in the professional environment for reliability.

The failure problems should only occur with long takes at high data rates from codec and/or framerate. If these are your norms, consider to use the qualified cards for anything especially meaningful or commercial, or if this is something you do only occasionally, buy one or two especially for those purposes.

And you're right, we still have failures, but they're mostly with the older Lexar 256 cards (3600x) which they would replace, or refund most of the cost, until recently with Lexar no longer making the product and out-sourcing the refund process. Now it's like going to the dentist's office!

JS



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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 29, 2019 at 7:18:19 pm

[john sharaf] "The failure problems should only occur with long takes at high data rates from codec and/or framerate. If these are your norms, consider to use the qualified cards for anything especially meaningful or commercial, or if this is something you do only occasionally, buy one or two especially for those purposes. "

Nothing is 100%. If a user purchases the more expensive ARRI certified card, what will ARRI cover for you if the card loses a take or a whole set of takes?


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john sharaf
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 29, 2019 at 7:58:18 pm

Well yes, in that case you're screwed, except they'll give you a new card

JS



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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 30, 2019 at 1:30:28 pm

So what I'm hearing is that ARRI representatives claim that 1/4 of Sandisk CFast cards fail, and yet they will sell you the same Sandisk CFast card that they have certified, at a much higher cost and if it fails, they'll just replace the card? Something tells me that the 25% number may be exaggerated, since there is financial gain by spreading a bit of FUD, and clearly Sandisk CFast cards are what ARRI chose to sell their more expensive "now thoroughly tested!" versions, not Lexar or Angelbird.


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john sharaf
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 30, 2019 at 2:33:07 pm

Gary,

I should have given up on you a long rime ago, but I'm compelled to correct the misstatements and inaccuracies you continue to state.

For one thing Lexar no longer makes the 3600x cards, presumably because of the high failure rate.

ARRI could care less about the money they make selling media; their interest is to minimize their users problems with third party devices that are qualified for use in their products and they have no reason to lie to me about the failure rates they determine by scientific testing.

No one is out to get you or unreasonably profit from you. These are issues that all heavy data rate users must contend with. It's ultimately an issue of the proper tool for the job and suffering the expenses involved. There is no free lunch, that's why there are the myriad choices of cameras and media available.

To state a fact, the most reliable (and coincidentally the most expensive) media is that made by CODEX and that's why ARRI, Canon and Panasonic all collaborate with them on their high end cameras, and per Moore's law, even their media keeps coming down in price while increasing speed and capacity over time.

A perfect example of this is their new "Compact Drive 1TB (CA08-1024)" for the ARRI Mini LF which is "only" about $2300US. While this might seem expensive to you, for professional users used to paying twice that amount for the same capacity is is "cheap".

JMHO

JS



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Gary Huff
Re: SanDisk Extreme Pro CF2 256GB write speeds + skipped frames w/4K shoots
on Mar 30, 2019 at 4:41:22 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Mar 30, 2019 at 5:18:24 pm

[john sharaf] "For one thing Lexar no longer makes the 3600x cards, presumably because of the high failure rate."

That's not a misstatement or an inaccuracy of mine, John.

[john sharaf] "ARRI could care less about the money they make selling media"

That's not a misstatement or inaccuracy, John. That's your personal opinion.

[john sharaf] "No one is out to get you or unreasonably profit from you. "

There are people who are out to profit. Your statement is, on its own merits, incorrect. It may or may not include executives at ARRI, but you literally just said, "No one". You can leave the hyperbole out of it.

[john sharaf] "To state a fact, the most reliable (and coincidentally the most expensive) media is that made by CODEX and that's why ARRI, Canon and Panasonic all collaborate with them on their high end cameras"

I said that ARRI has chosen Sandisk for its certified CFast cards. So that is not a misstatement or an inaccuracy of mine, John. Why did you open your post with, "I should have given up on you a long rime ago, but I'm compelled to correct the misstatements and inaccuracies you continue to state" and then not do any of that?


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