FORUMS: list search recent posts

Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?

COW Forums : Lighting Design

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
stan welks
Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 8:14:15 pm

I am going to borrow some lights to do some simple video interviews and still photography.

1. Would a KNO 4-bank or a Diva be better as a key? I plan to use foam core or a reflector for the fill?
2. Would you keep the egg crate on or remove it and put some type of flozier over it for diffusion?

Thanks.



Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 8:29:06 pm

1. Depends on your room/space/ambient lighting. If you can get the instrument relatively close to the subject, I'd definitely go with the Diva. If you have a big space, can't put your key very close to the subject, or have a lot of ambient light that you can't kill but have to overcome, then the 4 bank might be better in that situation.... but generally for interview setups, a Diva works well. And yes a 4x4 white foamcore bounce card is a good fill.

2. Well it just depends on the look you are going for. Egg crate and diffusion material are two very different modifiers, and do very different things. Diffusion is, obviously, going to soften the light. The egg crate doesn't soften light, but limits its direction (although the Diva is going to be fairly soft anyway). If you need to be concerned with spill, preventing as much of your key as possible from hitting your background environment, that's what the egg crate is needed to control. If you are not worried about spill so much but want a softer wraparound key for your subject, then yes, diffusion is the way to go. For that you are probably looking at Lee 250, some kind of existing silk you already have, frosted shower curtain material (my go-to modifier, couldn't live without it), or in a pinch, a white garbage bag.

If you want something akin to classic portraiture lighting for your interview you'll probably want a backlight (or bit of a sidelight), too... a small fresnel would be sufficient.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 8:44:18 pm

The room has about 14ft from the background to the camera, with a ceiling about 7.5ft above the ground. There will be a large white collapsible background that the person will be sitting in front of. I will be able to block most of the ambient natural lighting, though not all of it.

1.) Would you use the egg crates to control spill on the background along with the diffusion on top of that?

2.) I haven’t figured out how to light the background yet. I am not concerned with the detail, since it is a solid white background. Using KNO lights, should I try lighting the background with the 4-Bank(s) and using the Diva as the key?

3.) I was going to use a Hensel Integra 500 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894450-REG/Hensel_8815en_Integra_500... for the backlight.

Is there anything I should be concerned with mixing the KNO and Hensel lights? the Kno bulbs are True Match Flourescent lamps, the ones with the blue rings around the top and bottom of the bulbs.

Thanks!



Return to posts index


john sharaf
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 8:46:37 pm

For still work, strobes are always the best choice; much more light in case you want deep focus and very short flash duration for freezing the moment.

I've never liked Divas vs. traditional KF's which I consider a more stable color over time, and as they heat up over the day.
Of course the Diva's do dim which is sometimes the deal breaker, but of course there other ways to waste a KF.

I've recently discovered Quasar Science LED tubes which retrofit into the conventional KF units with these advantages:

1. Selectable Daylight or Tungsten (or even varied steps) with built in switch
2. Dimmable with squeezers without changing color
3. Long life (20K+hours)
4. 50% more output, such that a FourBank now has Six Tubes, and a TwoBank has Three Tubes

If you ever have the opportunity to use these tubes, you will eventually retrofit any conventional KF's you have. I even did my 18" Singles and WOW what a light that is!

JS



Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 8:57:51 pm

Listen to what John says, he's a sharp guy.

ALTHOUGH... I think I'm more of a Diva fan for interviews than he is. Then again, John is not only an expert DP but due to the kinds of projects he does he has resources and access to just about any and every kind of lighting instrument there is out there (and yes, the rest of us are jealous of that). Most of us don't though, and I think a Diva is a good choice in "make do with what you have" situations where we might be limited in the instruments available.

Then again, you might consider me all talk, as I don't use Divas at all presently. Any time where I might have used Divas in the past I now use LightPanels Astra instruments... which I love. I actually haven't used a Diva in a long time, personally... but was just speaking to the instruments that you have available.

As for "Would you use the egg crates to control spill on the background along with the diffusion on top of that?"... well, you can use both, but you got that backwards. You'd want to use egg crate on top of diffusion, not diffusion on top of egg crate. If you do it that way (diffusion on top), the egg crate is not going to do much of anything.

As for the Hensel for a backlight, I'm guessing you're talking about using that just for the still photography... as that is a strobe and not a continuous light. I'm pretty clueless there... not that I shoot stills that much, but when I do I never ever use strobes, I always use continuous lighting. I just don't know anything about strobes... I come from the film and video world and really only know continuous lighting, so that's what I use. Fortunately 99% of our work (or more) is motion, so I really don't have to worry about knowing anything about flash lighting.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 9:42:53 pm

Thanks for all the helpful info! I am only going to use lights that I can borrow, that is why I was trying to get an idea from you guys of what might work better from what I have available before going through the trouble of borrowing, setting up, etc.

I just set up a 4-bank vertically without any diffusion or egg crate as a key and I used a collapsible silver reflector as a fill. I am very new to this so I do not know what I should be looking for. Does it seems evenly lit on the doll? Is it pretty flat? I'm trying to get soft portrait like lighting. I will be shooting interviews like video/stills with both adults and kids. I know the background is another thing I need to deal with though...

Attached is an image showing my setup and another showing just the resulting photo. Any suggestions will be very appreciated!



Return to posts index


stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 9:43:53 pm







Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 9:53:14 pm

Just a very quick observation to give you a couple of thing to tweak on...

You key light there is very high. I don't mean a little high, it's sky high, almost pointing down onto the top of the doll's head. Try lowering your stand a great deal. I personally like to put keys about at eye level, or maybe a little bit above. Sometimes with talent who wear eye glasses I'll raise an instrument up a bit just to get rid of the reflection... but just a bit.

Secondly, I'd try to put more space between your subject and the background. Sometimes we can't because we'll end up on location in a small room, but generally I'll try to put a fair bit of distance in there. I can work with five or six feet... 10 feet makes me very happy. If you don't have that separation, even with a plain solid background, it makes lighting very hard and your subjects always end up looking like they're lined up against a wall down at the police department getting a mug shot taken.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 10:02:24 pm

I wanted to lower the key, however, it is on an Avenger C-stand and I can not figure out how to lower it to the level of the doll (sorry I am very new to this). Is there some obvious way of doing this that I am missing? Please see attached.


Thanks!



Return to posts index


Todd Terry
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 10:22:09 pm
Last Edited By Todd Terry on Jan 27, 2017 at 10:23:37 pm

It's ok to be new, don't apologize for that... we were all new at one point (and sadly that point was painfully long ago for me)...

It's tough to do with that stand... you really have the wrong stand for the job. The center part (the telescoping part) is called the "riser," and the risers come in different lengths. That looks to be the longest of the three common lengths... whereas you could get away with the shortest.

If you have it, you could add a grip head and grip arm to the stop of that stand so that you could lower your mounting point... here is a very quick (and very very bad) drawing...


...but you might not have that hardware laying around, and it's sort of Frankenstein-esque overkill for one Diva (although I've personally rigged much much worse).

Best bet would be to see if you can beg, borrow, rent, or steal a shorter stand... C-stand or otherwise. Well, don't steal it, but find one somewhere.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 10:52:38 pm

Thanks for the suggestion. I added an arm and it seems stable, hopefully it is safe. The lighting seems much better. Can you give me any general thoughts or next steps? How would you suggest lighting the background? Is this possible with only one 4-bank or Diva? I'm just trying to minimize the stands in the small space.

Thanks again!









Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 27, 2017 at 11:04:06 pm

Much much better.

As for lighting the background... well, what is your goal? What do you want it to look like? Are you wanting a solid pure white limbo background? Neutral gray? Something smooth and even? Or something with shadows and texture? To know how to light it we need to know what you want to see. If you want just a plain even neutral gray background, you might be fine just as-is.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index


stan welks
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Jan 30, 2017 at 1:33:06 am

I spent some time adding a different backdrop, an ARRI 150 for the back/hair light, and two Divas to light the background.

1.) Does the back/hair light listed in the photos numbered #2 and #3 appear attached properly? Is there a better way of doing this? I just want to make sure it is safe.

2.) I want to light the background to create something similar to a soft/portrait look. Any suggestions based on the attached photo showing my complete setup?







Thank you!!!



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Using KNO 4-Banks vs. Divas for Key lighting?
on Feb 18, 2017 at 4:25:48 am

Stan,

That's NOT a very good way to rig a backlight.

On the circular part of the grip head, you see those different sized holes/slots? Those are designed to grip the circular grip arm itself. That way the pole is attached to the grip head and the whole arm is adjustable. With the part of the arm hanging over, you can slide the arm along to make it shorter or longer - and even MORE important the overhang of the arm can take a small sandbag or other weight to counterbalance the load and make the whole rig MUCH safer and more stable.

It's also CRITICAL to orient the grip head on the correct side of the stand/arm combination so that the load puts its weight on the side of the grip head that TIGHTENS on rotation, rather than an orientation where the weight can naturally LOOSEN the grip head.

BTW, you're making good progress. Keep working it. Good job.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]