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playback stops on its own with RED footage

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Joshua King Ortiz
playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 19, 2019 at 4:39:46 am

Hello,

I'm having an issue playing RED footage. When I bring a clip into the timeline, it plays for a few seconds and then stops on its own. It doesn't happen with the other clips in the timeline that are not RED.

I opened the console and it reported the following error:

PlayLoopThread::CheckForExceptions: Exception: AMAProducerTask::Execute: AMA Plug-In Unable to Provide Sample

Exception caught in APlayer::Play - Exception: AMAProducerTask::Execute: AMA Plug-In Unable to Provide Sample

Anybody know how to fix this?

Thank you in advance,
joshua

Joshua King Ortiz
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Dom Silverio
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 19, 2019 at 3:27:30 pm

Try changing the Source Settings, in particular the quality of the playback (resolution, debayer, etc).

If that does not work, see if a different version of the R3D plugin can fix it.


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Shane Ross
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 19, 2019 at 6:11:59 pm

Playing back Red Raw requires a lot of processing power. Is your computer up to the task? What are your system specs? What version of Avid MC are you running? Might also be related to why you can't transcode the footage...which would be recommended. I wouldn't try to edit Red native footage.

Shane
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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 20, 2019 at 12:15:40 pm

Hi guys,

I tried Dom's suggestion in the Source Settings and it didn't work.

I have a 2012 Mac Pro with dual Xeon 6-Core 3.33GHZ CPUs, an Nvidia GTX 1080ti, 64GB RAM, PCI-e SSD system drive...it should be handling at least one r3d stream no problem. Premiere handles RED footage on this same system without a hitch. And, even though Avid's playback performance is significantly worse than Premiere's with codecs other than DNx or ProRes, it still shouldn't be this bad. It literally plays for about 3 seconds and stops playing.

I think it has something to do with Quicktime and/or RED's AMA plugin. The activity monitor on the Mac also has an alert saying Quicktime OPServer (Not Responding) whenever I open Avid.

I'll try Dom's suggestion of re-installing the RED AMA plugin and let you know if that works.

Thank you for the help!

Joshua King Ortiz
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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 20, 2019 at 12:18:03 pm

oh, and the version of Media Composer is the 2019.8.0 and yeah, it has to be related my other problem of not being to transcode RED footage either.

Thank you guys!

Joshua King Ortiz
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Shane Ross
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 20, 2019 at 7:08:24 pm

Try going back to 2018.12.x...see what happens. Some people reporting sporatic issues with 2019. OR...go to 2019.11...sure to have bug fixes.

And just because PPro plays back native footage fine, doesn't mean Avid will. Completely different engines in them.

Shane
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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 20, 2019 at 10:55:20 pm

Sometimes that means the hard drive can't keep up either. What drive type and connection are you using? Can you move one of the files to another hard drive and try again?

Do they play with any other player such as Red's own player or RedCineX Pro, Resolve, Premiere Pro, etc?


Michael


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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 21, 2019 at 11:03:56 am

Hi guys,

So, I updated to 2019_11 like Shane suggested and it helped solve the playback problem. It still stops on its own at times, but it works much, much better, specially when I turn on proxy mode in the Settings and bring down the playback resolution to Best Performance in the timeline. I can get several layers going if needed with that setup.

Tried transcoding (which was the other big problem I was running into with RED footage) and I'm still getting an error (Exception: AMAProducerTask::Execute: AMA Plug-In Unable to Provide Sample) halfway through transcoding the first clip. Any suggestions regarding that?

To answer Dom's questions, the drive is a 4-bay 16TB USB 3 RAID and yeah, they play flawlessly in Resolve and Premiere...and now in Avid too ☺

Thank you for your help guys and let me know if you have any ideas on how to solve the transcoding error.

Joshua King Ortiz
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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 23, 2019 at 8:14:28 am

Hi guys,

So, I installed 2018.12.8 and it still not allowing me to transcode within Media Composer.

Is there some kind of setting that might be causing this? I'm trying to move back to Media Composer, but all of the problems I'm encountering (transcoding and playback issues with RED and Blackmagic footage mainly) is deterring me.

Thank you,

Joshua King Ortiz
Editor/Shooter

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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 23, 2019 at 3:28:17 pm

I'll try some files myself later today, but what camera version or other info can you give on your RED files? My test files are at least a year old and some are older. I can download some from RED as needed.

There are a few issues to track here and they are slightly different. Avid's AMA strategy is to let camera manufacturers and third parties (like Nablet for Sony) create codec support as needed. In the case of BRAW, Blackmagic's camera team develops the AMA plug-in. In the case of RED, it is AVID who creates the AMA plug-in based on their SDK and will update from time to time as new versions of RED's SDK get released. It should also be noted that Avid's implementation does not offer the full feature set or all of the parameters available to them.

So in the RED R3D scenario, it is an Avid controlled pipeline and filing a bug with support "may" help get to the bottom of the issue faster.

In the case of BRAW, it's sort of middle ground at this point - the codec clearly decodes the file as you can play them. They updated the plug-in to properly handle the timecode, but now it doesn't transcode. Transcode is on the Media Composer side of things - as far as I know, a third party cannot control that part of the process. So there is an issue between the decode handoff and the transcode process which could be a BMD issue, an Avid issue, or both. Now as a customer of both, you're stuck in the middle while two customers who are partners, as well as competitors, work it out.

In order to get up and running now, the only solution is to use Resolve for BRAW transcoding to make your DNx versions for editorial - and optionally the same for RED RAW. Or you could use RedCineX Pro to create DNx media. In both cases, you have access to all the parameters for color/exposure/gamma management at your disposal.

I'll update as I try RED files in latest version of 2019.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 23, 2019 at 4:37:58 pm

I just did a quick check on RED R3D SDK versions available from the RED development page and the version declared in the Avid RED AMA from the Avid AMA download page and the latest Avid RED AMA version is listed as 7.0.7. According to the RED development page, the latest version is 7.1.0. The previous version is 7.0.8 which was released 7/20/2018, meaning 7.0.7 is almost a year out of date.

This may or may not be a factor, but certainly being a year out SDK wise for any camera/codec updates released since that time could be a factor.


Michael


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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 26, 2019 at 2:52:52 am

Thank you, MIchael!

Do we have any news as to when Avid is planning to update the Red AMA plugin? It could definitely be a factor if the coding for the plugin is outdated.

Still, though I'm sure it could be a factor, I'm not sure that it is the main culprit in this particular case because, if it was, it would affect most users trying to transcode R3D footage within MC, not just me.

For now my workaround is to transcode proxy MXF dailies in Resolve and relink to the Hi Res files when the edit is done, but I would much rather be able to do the whole process within MC.

Are there any macOs settings (I'm on High Sierra), Quicktime settings, or settings within MC that could be causing this?

Thank you for your help!

Joshua King Ortiz
Editor/Shooter

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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 26, 2019 at 3:00:03 am

As I mentioned it may be a contributing factor. You make a good point about others not experiencing this so unclear what the actual problem may be. I don't have any insight into Avid development and release schedule but it seems that this may be something to open a support ticket.

Do you know what camera and codec version and specs is being used?


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 26, 2019 at 2:27:05 pm

Also, how long are your clips? Something to test and might be telling is to break your linked masterclip into two subclips and try transcoding those to see if that succeeds or not.

Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Nov 29, 2019 at 1:45:55 am

Users are reproting successful BRAW transcoding with v1.6 of the BRAW AMA plug-in released yesterday at Blackmagicdesign.com

Michael


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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Dec 2, 2019 at 3:09:24 am

Regarding the BRAW plugin, yeah a user over at the Avid forums who has been in contact with Blackmagic gave me a heads up on the BRAW plug-in update. Will try it out and see if it fixes some of the bugs on that end.

Thanks Michael!

Joshua King Ortiz
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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Dec 2, 2019 at 2:37:23 am

Hi Michael,

The camera is the Red Gemini. I’m not sure what codec version it is though. How do you find that out?

The lengths vary, some are short takes without spanning and some are long takes with spanning. Both spanned and not spanned clips generate the error.

The first workflow workaround I tried was to create proxy dailies for each card in Resolve and bring them into the Avid with an ALE file. This worked at first and all of the sudden stopped working even when I created specific projects for each of the different frame rates.

Then I tried doing the same but with an AAF and, again, it worked at first and then, from one day to the next, now only the Video MXF file reconnects but not the A1 and A2 files, even though they’re all in the AvidMediaFiles folder and I tried everything from trashing the database files to have it refresh to tweaking every parameter in the terrifyingly dreadful Relink window. I also tried crossing my fingers and praying each time I hit the Relink button to no avail.

So, I ended up using a workflow similar to the one I use with Premiere, which is transcoding to Quicktime ProRes proxies in Resolve and then reconnecting at the end when picture is locked and ready for color. This is pretty straightforward and bypasses the reliance on the MediaFiles folder, which has been working when it wants to. I’m hoping it works because otherwise I'll have to redo everything in Premiere.

Today, I opened the project and found that the audio on all of the clips all of the sudden doesn’t work. The Audio mixer meters show there’s sound. Everything in the Audio Project settings with the Blackmagic card looks goods. It just decided not to work. So I'm spending the day trying to trouble shoot that instead of working and haven't found a fix for that yet, so I'll have to open another thread for that.

All in all, this is my first time using Avid since I learned it in film school and the experience has been full of errors, gotchas, hiccups, and obstacles even when I follow step by step workflow instructions. I was planning on switching from Premiere to Avid because Premiere crashes way too often for my taste, but now I don’t know. But after this experience I’m not sure. I can’t have something work one day and not the next. The inconsistency and unreliability I’m experiencing in this project makes me very uneasy about using it as my NLE of choice, as much as I want it to for other reasons that make me like Avid.

Thank you again for all of your help on this, Michael!

Joshua King Ortiz
Editor/Shooter

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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Dec 3, 2019 at 3:03:58 pm

If you open the R3D file in RedCineX Pro and select "Metadata" from one of the menus it will tell you camera, version, codec, compression, etc.

As far as the overall experience, Media Composer is much happier with native file formats and external dailies process. Over the years it has opened up to more formats, but there is still what is considered "native formats" and not native. If you can transcode/consolidate to it, it is native. That being said, AMA's promise is to be the conduit of externally supported formats but can be hit and miss in some cases.

Also, I may have missed it the first time, but there are mixed frame rates in which Media Composer has changed the best methods of handling over the years. Legacy wise, you had to create a project that matched that rate, transcode, open bin in the native project, etc. In more recent versions, it is handled in transcode settings whether to preserve native rate, etc. I can't recall off the top of my head whether it allows keeping frame rate, but changing resolution.

But, making your DNxHD proxies externally should just work. Are you syncing double system audio in Resolve or just transcoding the camera originals? I have to admit that I prefer using RedCineX Pro to make proxies. It automatically creates an ALE and AAF in additon to all the proxies. Move proxies to MediaFile folder, drag and drop AAF into bin, and optionally merge ALE.

Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Dec 3, 2019 at 3:11:39 pm

If you want to send me a link to download one of your R3D files, I can see if it works for me. It may be something system wise that Media Composer is not happy with, but hard to tell seeing as MC can link to it and play it somewhat while other applications have no problem with it.

What resolution is the file?
what is your project type?
Have you set Media Creation settings to be half good, half, 1/4, etc. to decode a little easier?
Are you working with proxy setting in Project window?

There are a lot of different places to look which makes it confusing, but once you know where to look these settings may help.


Michael


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Joshua King Ortiz
Re: playback stops on its own with RED footage
on Dec 6, 2019 at 8:59:21 am

Hey Michael!

I tried to upload one of the spanned files to my Google Drive to share with you but my internet is running really wonky for the last few days for some reason and after uploading for a few hours it gave an unable to upload error.

As far as camera settings, it is a Red Gemini shot in 4096x2160, Redcode 7:1 compression, IPP2 pipeline, REDWideGamutRGB color space, Log3G10 Gamma Curve.

Here are the answers to your questions.

Are you syncing double system audio in Resolve or just transcoding the camera originals? No, just transcoding the originals and then synching in MC.

What resolution is the file?
4096x2160

what is your project type? Do you mean what are the settings for the final deliverables? If so, they are ProRes 422 (QT wrapper) and H264 (mp4 wrapper) 1920x1080, 23.98fps.

Have you set Media Creation settings to be half good, half, 1/4, etc. to decode a little easier? The Import settings in the Media Creation window were set to DNxHD 36 (OP-Atom wrapper) and Linked Source Scaling Quality was set to Full.

Are you working with proxy setting in Project window? Yeah, I tried with and without the proxy setting in the project window.

I have to admit that I prefer using RedCineX Pro to make proxies. It automatically creates an ALE and AAF in additon to all the proxies. Move proxies to MediaFile folder, drag and drop AAF into bin, and optionally merge ALE. Wow, that is great to know, I did not know that. It sure saves some steps. Thank you for the tip!

Again, thank you for all of your help!

Joshua King Ortiz
Editor/Shooter

https://vimeo.com/joshuakingortiz
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4298076/
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