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Rip Van Winkle just woke up

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Steve Ford
Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 19, 2011 at 6:57:25 pm

I've had my head in the sand up until this week and had no idea what had happened to FCP. Towards the end of the year I will have to make a decision whether or not to stay in FCP when we update our system.

It has been six years since our last update and I'm still running FCP version 5.0.1. We still have two tape decks that I will need to continue to draw footage from, so deck control and digitizing is a big issue to us.

I do mostly short videos or commercials and spend most of my time in After Effects and just use FCP as a compositor. Here are my questions, should I jump ship or not. Second question, if I do jump ship... which way should I head? I don't know much about Premier or Avid and can only learn from the sales materials available on line.

I could really use some help on this one and any input is greatly appreciated.


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Andrew McKee
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 19, 2011 at 7:48:21 pm

If you require good integration with After Effects and the ability to use lots of already owned 3rd party hardware then Premiere is probably the way to go. You can possibly even open FCP5 projects, or at least XMLS from FCP. Personally, I'm an offline editor and Avid just feels the most seamless to the way I like to work. It also has the ability to dynamically trim an edit (which Premiere and FCPX do not), and I couldn't live without it. But in terms performance and workflows, Premiere is an attractive option.

Andrew McKee
Editor/Colourist
Avid Certified Instructor - MC5.5
Apple Certified Trainer - FCP7
Pixelwizard.net


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Steve Ford
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 19, 2011 at 8:45:47 pm

The hardest part of this situation is the extreme lack of knowledge I'm facing. Dropping your shoulder and grinding away production for the last several years have left me out of the loop. I have no idea what you mean by dynamic trim editing so I sit like a bobble head with a blank stare. Is there a demo explaining that function so I could better understand why it's so coveted?

Bottom line, this new system will be the one I have to live with for the next half dozen years. My current one is running on System 10.3.9 and can't be updated so I could never update any of the software past 2007. The new system will be purchased by the end of this year so I'm looking for any insight I can get.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 1:12:37 am

Hey Steve, I'm in a similar situation, and am migrating my own rig to Avid over the next year or so. It is a decision that makes complete sense for me in the environment I work in. In fact, I really should have brushed up on my Avid skills a few years ago, but I've been pretty lazy about it. For you, though, Premiere might be a better choice.

Quick questions:

What is your i/o card, what other hardware are you running, and what kind of Mac are you on? Or, I guess, what kind of hardware are you planning on upgrading to?

In your environment do you need to interact with other editors or editorial companies?


Here are some other forum threads that might be of use:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/914989

http://community.avid.com/forums/p/88537/502550.aspx


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Steve Ford
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 1:27:52 am

Hey Chris
No IO card, I've been on the same Mac G5 for the last six years. I've been editing on FCP and use Firewire to digitize and deck control. The next system will be on a system built from the ground up. We have to stay on Mac and I am the only editor on staff. I have two other people on staff... one that is our web guy and the other who does graphics. We are all on mac and pass files back and forth. As of right now, we don't work with other facilities, but that may change though I'm not hanging my hat on it.

The upgrade will be the latest mac tower, and I will update to the latest AE which is the program I live in, I've been using FCP to compile movies for final sweetening and export.

What I'm going to have to do is research the pros and cons about AVID and Premier.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 1:36:11 am

Hey Steve!

I've been very happy with my decision to go with Avid (though I also have Premiere), but from what you've said, my guess is CS 5.5 is where you really want to be. You will find the editing metaphors more like FCP and the integration with AE is extremely tight. My 2 cents, anyway.

I should add that both offer free trials, tough you will need your new machine to actually test them out.


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Andrew McKee
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 5:58:04 am

Sorry, dynamic trimming isn't all that coveted generally. Its just the ability to play a cut point and then pause to move it to the new position using JKL (so to watch in realtime whilst you adjust the cut). I was just pointing out that its only tiny things that tend to make people go one way or the other.

I would recommend you find someway of testing these out before buying. In terms of system, they both require similar things so maybe buy that first, download the trails and take 30 days to figure out the best one for you? But from what you've said I would expect Premiere is going to be your best option.

Andrew McKee
Editor/Colourist
Avid Certified Instructor - MC5.5
Apple Certified Trainer - FCP7
Pixelwizard.net


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Job ter Burg
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 2:20:33 pm

I think it's safe to say that compositing is NOT Avid's forte, and that it is Adobe's.


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Steve Ford
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 2:36:51 pm

I am concerned that one of the complaints I've heard about Premier is that the editing interface is cumbersome. That is the last thing I want. How do create complicated graphics in AVID? That is the largest advantage Premier boasts, but will the trade off be a much slower editing interface?


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Chris Harlan
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 8:19:05 pm

To quote your initial post: I do mostly short videos or commercials and spend most of my time in After Effects and just use FCP as a compositor.

With that in mind, I would think the choice of Premiere would be relatively clear. Premiere's editorial functionality is more like FCP than Avid. You can open old FCP files in Premiere. AND, the lion's share of your work is in AE, which links very tightly with Premiere in the CS suite. As I've said, my get away is Avid, but that's because it fits very nicely with the kind of work I do. I do, however, understand the allure, and am quite enjoying re-uping with Avid.


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Mike Most
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 20, 2011 at 3:51:51 pm

It's probably equally safe to say that editing is NOT Adobe's forte, and it is Avid's. Different companies, different histories, different perspectives, different areas of concentration.


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Jan Maitland
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 21, 2011 at 1:26:33 am

Steve

One other thing to note is that Avid's Media Composer software is currently on-sale for $995, a sale price which will end on September 30th. Adobe is offering an equally competitive price for their product as well, though I'm less familiar with the time-frame of their sale.

Since you're already using Adobe's Creative Suite (which includes Premiere Pro) it may behoove you to buy the Media Composer software at its sale price since you're unlikely to see it that low for quite some time (it's typically $2,995).

I agree with Chris' statements about the fundamentally shorter learning curve when jumping from FCP to PP and while what you've read about PP's interface being somewhat cumbersome is true, I haven't found it in any way disruptive to my FCP-style workflow.

Having said all that, I did, in the end, choose Avid's Media Composer as my "new" editing system following the FCP-X apocalypse because it just feels so much more "solid" than either PP or even the recently deceased FCP-7.

While Media Composer is considerably less "sexy" than either FCP-7 or Premiere, after having just recently completed my third TVC project in it, I now can't imagine going with any other software solution (i.e. PP or even the old FCP-7). It's just that good...at editing. For graphics? Meh, not so much.

Best of luck with your decision and please let us know which route you take.


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Job ter Burg
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 21, 2011 at 10:32:33 am

It's typically $2495 (not 2995) for the boxed version (including 3rd party apps bundle: Squeeze, BCC etc). Download is like 2295 but excludes the 3rd party package.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 23, 2011 at 7:13:18 pm

Just as an FYI - the boxed version of Media Composer includes Avid FX and Boris Continuum Complete filters. I think the Avid Production Studio bundle (the third party software) is still available as a separate download for a few hundred bucks if you get the download version of MC.

Avid FX is Boris RED, so it gives you way more advanced effects and compositing tools inside MC than MC alone. Also Automatic Duck or Boris AAF Transfer gives you some nice tools to move between After Effects and Media Composer. Lastly if you have BCC in AE and BCC in MC, then Boris AAF Transfer will translate the effects data between the two hosts for most of the BCC filters.

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Eduardo Serrano
Re: Rip Van Winkle just woke up
on Aug 23, 2011 at 11:34:47 pm

Hi,

Even tho I'm now an offline editor, and I basically work on avid mc everyday because I really like it. I have been a motion designer in the past and like you lived in AE and used fcp as a compositor.

There's no question about it. Get Premiere. I was very snobbish against premiere on the past, but the ui being cumbersome is not true anymore, at least since the "pro" version came along. You can still work with s lot of layers like fcp did and it's very similar. And you get full 64bit with the cuda acceleration that will help you in AE. And just the dynamic linking should be your killer feature. Come on, I used to dream about that on my designers days.

But yeah... Take a look on the premiere to fcp tutorials videos on the net.

Avid is amazing for editing offline and althought it is a very capable compositor, it's a bit cumbersome and not really intuitive for someone that comes from a graphics background.

Cheers,

E.


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