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Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer

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RoRK
Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 4, 2006 at 3:27:45 am

Hi All

I am having major issues trying to sync an Invig layer to a solid in AE. There is some auto orientation going on in Invig and that screws things up quickly.

What I am trying to achieve is to have a video play inside a simple circle/square that is rotating. I am using AE's camera.

Is there a way to automagically have invig not do its auto-orientation manovres? Or are there parameter settings to have an invig object be set such that it 'removes' the orientation so that I start with a straight-on, into the camera look.

Thanks in advance.

Roland Kahlenberg


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Jon Okerstrom
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 1:57:20 am

Hi Roland,

I'm not 100 percent sure I get what you're asking, but will give it a shot.

When you check the use comp camera box in Invigorator, this causes the invigorator camera and the AE camera to be linked by what amounts to an expression which you can't see. It allows you to make it look like 3D objects in the Invigorator layer exist in AE's 3D space when they really don't. You might want to take a look at my just-posted tutorial on reflections, in which I have Invigorator objects appear to be sitting on an After Effects 3D plane, and maintain the relationship even with an AE camera move.

If you uncheck the "use comp camera" box, the Invigorator camera behaves independently from the comp camera. You can animate the Invigorator camera if you want. Regardless, the Invigorator layer behaves like any other 2D layer in After Effects.

There may be some circumstances when you make the Invigorator layer a 3D AE layer without the "use comp camera" option. The trick is to keep the layer oriented toward the comp camera. I think you could use an expression to do that. Many years ago, Chris and Trish Meyer wrote an article about it, if I recall correctly. I believe this may have been published before the "use comp camera" option even existed. If you don't keep the layer oriented toward the camera, the illusion of 3D breaks down pretty quickly.

Does this help?

Jon





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RoRK
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 5, 2006 at 2:20:41 am

Hi Jon
Thanks for the reply. All sounds good but I'm still clueless as to how to get an Invig layer to sit still and face the camera full-on.

This job entails sending out a rendered MOV with a 3D frame done in AE+Invig - a simple y-axis rotation. Client doesn't have Invig. Client wants to have a video layer playing within the Invig object, the 3D frame.

I was hoping that I could send the baked MOV together with an AEP which has a Solid that has the same settings as the Invig. layer. The Solid would be used as a matte for his video. The problem is that I can't find a way to get the Solid's settings to match the 3D rotation of Invig's 3D frame.

When I tried to use an Expression, I merely pick-whipped the values from the Invig's Layer Set parameters onto the Solid's 3D parameters - this doesn't seem to work cos' Invig automatically does some orientation internally and I can't find a way to set it off or to find parameter settings to offset this initial orientation.

Thanks for the input thus far.
Cheers
Roland Kahlenberg







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Jon Okerstrom
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 2:51:56 am

Hi Roland,

I think I'm starting to get it.

As for the creating the solid to be used as a matte...why not avoid the expression issue entirely. You could simply replace the 3D frame you've created in Invigorator with a plane primitive of the correct size, and use matte color to generate a matte for the movie. The movement of the plane would match the movement of the 3D frame.

Once you have that, you would have to pin the corners of the movie to the matte shape so it maintains the right aspect ratio as the rotation happens. Put the Invigorator movie over the top and it should work.

This might be a different way to get it done.


jon



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serge
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 4:27:02 am

Hey Roland,

Nice to see you around.:-)

If I got you right you can't for any reason map the video on your Invigorator object. Right?

If this is the case and you would like to only provide a movie of a rotating 3D frame (In an AEP) and let your client place a movie in this frame. The easiest way would be to use the tracking feature of Invigorator pro 4.0.

Have a look at the following movie and let me know if it's what you are after: http://www.nyc-visual.com/Video_Frame.mov

The red screen is a solid layer that your client would easilly substitute in the aep with his movie. No matte no hassle. If this is what you want just let me know and I will guide you step by step and send you an example.

Salut.
Serge

"InvigoMany" Available here:http://www.nyc-visual.com


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RoRK
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 5, 2006 at 11:06:29 am

Hi Jon
>>The movement of the plane would match the movement of the 3D frame.
That won't work cos' then the video will not be rotating along with the matte and frame. I would like to have the video to rotate together with the frame.

Serge, I'm using 3dot5 right now. So no built-in tracking options for me via Invig. And it may actually be easier, from the client's point of view to have a matte. That shouldn't be a problem to create. The problem is providing sort of a placeholder where the client can simply perform a layer replacement action.

Serge, there must be a better/simpler way to do this without requiring tracking. No? This could be a programming/interface design issue. I find it strange that there is no way to get an invig model to behave exactly as any other AE layer - that is without and auto-orientation happening.

What do you suggest? Besides upgrading? Thanks for the input thus far.
Cheers
Roland Kahlenberg




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Serge
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 8:23:07 pm

Hey,

Please send me your animated aep including your object. It would be easier for me to see what went wrong and maybe find an alternative.
serge_01 at msn dotcom

Salut.
Serge


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serge
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 8:53:55 pm

I forgot!

Here is a project: Check it out to see if you are not missing something:
http://www.nyc-visual.com/Video_Frame.sit

Salut.
Serge


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RoRK
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 5, 2006 at 10:30:20 pm

Hi Serge. This seems to work. I went through the entire process, even pretended to be the client. :-)

Only issue was that the fill layer was upside down - not a real problem cos' setting the y-scale to negative solved that easily.

I then tried to replicate what you did with the Main Comp that you sent but fell short of reaching the desired target.

So, pray tell. How did you get it to work???

Thanks a bunch for the kind assistance.
RoRK


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Serge
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 5, 2006 at 11:42:29 pm

Hey dude,

Here are the steps:

- Make sure your create a square pixel comp.Very important!
- When importing your ai file make also sure that the "Move Object to Center" box is checked.
- In the scene preview windown switch to camera mode and choose "Front" from the view menu. Don't alter the position of your object/set or it wont be centered anymore.
- Create a camera layer and switch off the Auto Orientation.
- Create your 3D solid layer.
- Now check the Use Comp Camera for Invigorator.
- If you want you could tie the Set rotation parameters with an expression to your solid layer as I did in my example. I just like to work this way.

As I already said you could send me your aep so I can pinpoint the trouble in case you still have problems.

Let us know how it goes.

Salut my friend.
Serge



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RoRK
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 6, 2006 at 2:55:59 am

Hi Serge
Thank you very much. I got it to work although there was still some minor tweaks to be done. After mucking around and having had enough of it, I had a thought that the solution had to be something like what you outlined - do this, this, and that, but dont do this, and do these in this sequence.

Salut!
Roland Kahlenberg


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Serge
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
on Oct 6, 2006 at 3:18:28 am

You are welcome my friend!

It's always a pleasure to give a little back after all what I learned from guys like you or Jon.

Salut.
Serge


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RoRK
Re: Expression to link Invig model to AE's Layer
by
on Oct 6, 2006 at 2:57:57 am

Hi Serge
Thank you very much. I got it to work although there was still some minor tweaks to be done. After mucking around and having had enough of it, I had a thought that the solution had to be something like what you outlined - do this, this, and that, but dont do this, and do these in this sequence.

Salut!
Roland Kahlenberg


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