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Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?

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Jaeson KoszarskyVideo layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 13, 2011 at 9:47:44 pm

I'm working in Suite2.1 with RED5. My video clips on the timeline are all green screen. I applied a comp layer, put some animated movs in the background and logos & text in the foreground, like a thousand times before. Looks good in RED, looks good in Media100 before rendering.

After rendering, everything except the green screen video layer appears single-field. Only the green screen layer is sharp.

After trying a bunch of things (including rebooting), I tried just a simple text layer over the unaltered video layer and it yielded the same result.

Something is changed but I can't pin it down.

Jaeson



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Eric PelletierRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 12:52:24 am

I applied a comp layer, put some animated movs in the background and logos & text in the foreground, like a thousand times before. Looks good in RED, looks good in Media100 before rendering.

One thing I realized over time - if it can help - BORIS does not really work in Progressive, is your timeline progressive? Honestly, I don't know RED5, never worked with that. I work SD and HD on 1.1.3 - still - and my progressive videos look nice SD or HD in the timeline. I often put a logo overlays or text in BORIS. They look fine unrendered. But as soon as I render these titles or comps, the edges are not crisp, not anti-aliased. My workaround? No matter what my sources are, I work interlaced (not progressive). But it also depends what your Broadcast support is, but for me, going on TV, progressive material IN BORIS is nice only when interlaced.

Maybe you want to try changing project or files settings you use in BORIS into progressive, if needed.


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Jaeson KoszarskyRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 2:36:04 pm

Thanks. I reached the same conclusion with fresher eyes this morning. I usually work in interlaced mode and must have clicked the progressive option accidentally. After switching back to interlaced and re-rendering, everything was sharp again.

Does RED have a problem with progressive output in general or only in conjunction with Media100?

Jaeson



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Eric PelletierRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 3:01:31 pm

Good question for FCP or After Effects Boris users, i guess. I'm not a Boris user outside M100.

Maybe this PSF type of Timeline (Progressive Segmented Frame) is not compatible with Boris.

In media 100, PSF Program doesn't make your footage progressive. You could put any progressive or interlaced footage in a PSF or 601 Program, as long as you stick to NTSC or PAL with proper frame rate, aspect ratio, etc. In this case, progressive footage aired from a 601 timeline will look strange (not to say broken) as well as interlaced footage interpreted as progressive in a PSF timeline. This being said, in Suite 1.1.3, Boris doesn't always let the user specify how the media should be handled (Progressive, PSF or interlaced-601). I can't tell for latest versions, though.

But I think it doesn't really matter as long you going along with standards to broadcasters. The problem is for computer outputs, where your end results should be de-interlaced. And since you may have Progressive AND Interlaced footage in the same Program, well, you can imagine.


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Floh PetersRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 3:08:53 pm

Could you tell me what your settings were (SD or HD, framerate)? And was your source footage which you placed on the progressive timeline interlaced or progressive? I work with progressive (and psf) timelines quite often, and usually they look okay. I would like to try to reproduce your problem.



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Eric PelletierRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34:15 pm

If I may,

NTSC or PAL PSF Program.

Let's say I put in a progressive file (that I know is progressive and PSF fast imported in a bin) that mixes (fast dissolve) with an interlaced file (fast imported).
Add on top a Boris title, in which I import a logo (simple white logo with a 75% opacity, fixed position and fixed scale). Save. Back in M100, real time logo looks fine. Render it, even uncompresssed, and jagged edges show up. Obviously, square logos are not affected but the ones with curves suffer.

I could do the same thing in 601 Program, with nice rendered results.

Basically, in my version, it seems that Boris just doesn't understand PSF or Progressive titling.... but as I said before is PSF/Progressive SD program a standard? As far as I know, it's not. I might be from the «old school» but SD is interlaced with 4x3 or 16x9 anamorphic. Nerver experienced such problems with HD, though I always work interlaced 1080i.

Thanks for reading us.


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Jaeson KoszarskyRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 3:53:32 pm

I'm working in NTSC SD 4:3. When the program was in progressive mode, Boris titles rendered txt/gfx as if those elements were single field but the video layer looked ok.

When I first saw it, I thought the Media100 STOP MODE was set to DISPLAY FIRST FIELD or DISPLAY SECOND FIELD, rather than DISPLAY BOTH FIELDS.

Before discovering my error, I tried applying my txt/gfx in the video clip itself, as a title track overlay and as a composition clip overlay. All with the same problem in the Media10 progressive mode. Looks sharp un-rendered but not when rendered. I also when for something less complicated and used a simple text only layer and it exhibited the same problem upon rendering.

I also tried turning the RED "better quality field rendering" option on/off.

After changing the media100 back to Interlaced NTSC SD mode, the problem disappeared.

Jaeson



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Floh PetersRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 3:59:50 pm

Okay, next question: what codec do you use for rendering?



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Jaeson KoszarskyRe: Video layer renders clean but txt/gfx look single-fielded?
by on Sep 14, 2011 at 4:11:27 pm

Apple ProRes 422
Media100 Suite 2.1
OSX 10.6.7



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