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XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import

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jay RysckiXDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 7:20:28 am

I just came back to M100 with this trial version now that I am tapeless. Prep my clips using ShotPut3, Rename and organize in XDCAM Transfer, have M100 open and set with media destination folders, Codec is set for prorez 422 HQ and it will import one clip and crash. Over and over. Transfer continues on without M100. The clip that does make it into the bin works fine. Nothing seems to go wrong when same XD clips are imported into FCP. While I suspect this might be due to a new release, it is basic to having this product a functional tool. Been with M100 forever, can't stand the FCP. Need some feedback before I invest in this new tool. Is the M100 support crew reading this? Known Bug? Workaround?



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Floh PetersRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 1:19:19 pm

What OS version are you using? Which version of the XDCam tools? If the XDCam files are converted, can you import the converted files into Media 100? What framesize and framerate are your files in? This definitely should not happen.



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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 3:37:48 pm

What OS version are you using? SLep 10.6.3

Which version of the XDCam tools? Vers 2.12

If the XDCam files are converted, can you import the converted files into Media 100? Need to test this, but if this works, not the best scenario.

What framesize and framerate are your files in? 1920x1080 at 30P

This definitely should not happen. You're right about that...




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Floh PetersRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 5:08:33 pm

This works for me, at least with 25p footage. Can you post a short clip somewhere to have a look at? Or get in touch with Techsupport, maybe they can help here looking at your Crash Logsā€¦



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Gregg MichaelsRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 8:43:30 pm

I'm on Snow 10.6.3 and Suite 1.6, and I'm importing XDCAM-HD footage OK via XDCAM Transfer.

The footage is 23.98Psf though.



GM


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olof ekberghRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 9:32:56 pm

I use EX footage all the time in M100 suite 1.6 OS 10.6.2. No Problems at all.

My procedure:

1. Transfer from SxS using latest XD-cam transfer.

2. Open all the clips in FCP.

3. Pick the clips and parts of clips I need for project and export by reference (not self contained) from FCP.

4. Import the ref clips into M100 transcoding to ProRes422. Don't try to change the clips to SD at this point it does not work.

Usually this is all you need to do.

5. If I need to turn clips into SD (to use with a legacy project) I make a dummy timeline and drop the clips into it and conform them all at the same time. Then you can pull them out into bins labeled SD.

This may seem round about but it works great for me.
The nice thing about the FCP step is you can view the clips on your AJA/Matrox etc. external monitor and really do a good job shot sheeting.

I also archive all the clips at this time, and enter the info into a DB.

I hang on to the FCP projects and keep them with the SxS .movs I got from XDcam transfer.

Olof Ekbergh


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olof ekberghRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 9:38:10 pm

Actually I have 2 suites on 10.6.3 and M100 1.6. On 8 core Nehelam and an older 4 core.

Olof Ekbergh


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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 9:48:13 pm

I did the FCP>M100 workaround earlier and I know it works. Problem is that it adds time and reduces drive space for a process that should be one step. I work with the calibrated software plugin in FCP which eliminates the need to recompress the source XDCAM BPAV data. I have to recompress at the 422 codec to see the files to import them into M100. While this works, it is what I call janky at best, and broken at worst.

So, I went back and retested the direct from XDCAM Transfer to M100 after all this and it did import a small batch of short clips with no errors ( 5clips all less than a minute). Now I will clear all the test media, reimport the source, and see if it chokes.



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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jun 30, 2010 at 11:00:35 pm

It appears that my system(8core-2.8-12gbRAM) is hanging on clips over a minute long. The other thing going on is that it is writing two video movies for each clip imported.

One is a smaller file: Apple XDCAM EX 1080p30 (35 Mb/s VBR), 1920 x 1080 (1888 x 1062), Millions
16-bit Integer (Big Endian), Mono, 48.000 kHz
16-bit Integer (Big Endian), Mono, 48.000 kHz
117MB

Other is Big file: Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), 1920 x 1080, Millions
717MB

Not sure where these files work within the environment, but I do know that FCP has 1 .MOV file related to each XDCAM source file. When I import the same clip as a file from FCP I get the video and two audio .mov files in the M100 media folder.



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olof ekberghRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 1:18:01 am

The Apple XDCAM EX 1080p30 (35 Mb/s VBR), 1920 x 1080 (1888 x 1062), Millions, is the rewrapped EX file. This is basically what XDcam Transfer app does.

THe Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), 1920 x 1080, Millions, is the transcoded ProRes file, always much larger than the original mpeg 2 file from the camera.

The two audio files is the audio, the way M100 splits audio and video files.

I have not tried the M100 internal XDcam trans. But like I said you can transcode hundreds of files at once from the rewrapped mpeg file to ProRes as long as you don't try to conform them in any way at the same time, by importing into M100. I do this every day, it works great. If you try to conform at the same time M100 will choke. At least Suite 1.5 did.

Try just doing it this way, if it does not work then there is some software problem in your computer. If it works, then there is something wrong with the M100 XDcam plugin.

When I get time I will try to import straight from a SxS card into M100. Busy right now though.

I always use a MBP SxS slot to transfer the files to an external HD with the XDcamTransfer app. Then hook that drive up to my suite and transcode as I outlined earlier onto a RAID5 for editing.

I hope this helps you trouble shoot.

Olof Ekbergh


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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 1:42:17 am

This is what I also find to be true. I also suspect that the problem is with the way M100 and XDCam Tx play together, in this case they do not.

It is so much more streamlined as far as file size and sheer numbers of items in FCP. While I could live with the audio being split off as it has forever, I can't justify the additional overhead of using two programs to do the job of one, and look at a 1.4GB file in M100 while the same file in FCP takes up 225MB. Not a very friendly equation. Unless there is some way I am missing to get the final M100 file sizes down coming out of XDCam Tx, then it just does not compute.



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olof ekberghRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 12:41:47 pm

Jay,

I find that in order to work efficiently with XDcam footage in FCP I have to transcode it. Otherwise I am forever rendering to see how things really look.

So the way I look at it is do the transcode up front in M100 and then work really fast. FCP will let you edit the mpeg video but you have to render all the time, even cross fades, it drives me crazy. In M100 even titles play real time in full res. This is a huge plus for me.

I see the compact mpeg files as tape, great for archiving. But not a good editing codec.

So this is why I like to sometimes even do very simple rough cuts in FCP and then bring only the footage I need into M100 as ProRes or whatever.

This works really well for me anyway, I use both programs for what they are good at.

I would love be able to edit the mpeg files in M100 and I have talked with M100 about this. It may happen in the future. But the reason M100 is so fast at editing is the very efficient architecture, and currently it does not work with long GOP codecs (I can see why).

Life is always a compromise. I use at least 10 different programs and plug ins when editing and delivering my projects. All have strengths and weaknesses. M100 is incredible fast and efficient at what it does, in my opinion.

Olof Ekbergh


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Floh PetersRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 12:51:36 pm

[olof ekbergh] "The Apple XDCAM EX 1080p30 (35 Mb/s VBR), 1920 x 1080 (1888 x 1062), Millions, is the rewrapped EX file. This is basically what XDcam Transfer app does. "

The other option you could do is to let the ClipWrap software do the transcoding to ProRes 422 as well as the rewrapping. This way you end up with only one file instead of 2; it still will be larger than the original stream, though, but it is much easier to edit ProRes footage than MPEG2 streams.



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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 4:03:51 pm

Thanks for all the feedback on this examination. While I have deep understanding and respect for the M100 environment, I struggle with the incomplete "solution" that the Suite 1.6 delivers. I have hung on to the SD M100 model a year longer than I thought I could get away with and continue to produce content on it.

But I am done with tape now. I am happy to compromise to produce the same results I deliver now, compelling content. Where I see the challenge is in the sometimes convoluted media management area. M100 has always let me excel in this area, the current tool falls short primarily with challenges in sorting out files for archive. When the digital model truly emulates the tape model for restoring footage, I'll be there. In the meantime, this cobbled together approach to integration could use a champion. Calibrated Software has some good ideas, but they are still short on the execution.

If Suite 1.6 could overcome the XDCam conforming choke point, I could live with the results. What I have trouble justifying is sacrifice I make in creative editing energy, every time I need to put the computer geek hat on. M100 has let me leave that hat on the hook for years. I'd like to leave it there...

thanks again to all...


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Matthew MullenRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 1, 2010 at 4:15:46 pm

Jay,

Are you getting the crash only when importing directly from the SxS cards? I don't believe we have any of these in house to test with.

What is the nature of the crash, does it produce an error report?

If it does could you please send it to mattm@borisfx.com or support@media100.com

-Matt M.


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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 11:23:53 pm

Hey Matt- Did you get my email?



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jay RysckiRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 11:28:11 pm

Hey Flo,
ClipWrap does not support the XDCam files in native format



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Floh PetersRe: XDCAM Transfer crashes Suite 1.6 on import
by on Jul 2, 2010 at 11:51:50 pm

Sorry, I got lost somewhere. I thought you were speaking about AvcHD



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