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Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite

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Jim WisemanProblem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 1:37:49 am

Just installed the LHi board and am trying to playback material converted by Media 100 Suite 1.0.2 with XDcam Transfer. Imported as ProRes 422HQ. Can't come up with a playback setting that will play out via HDMI output of LHi to LaCie 324. It has 2 HDMIs, 1 DVI and 1 analog 15 pin input. This material plays back fine in Final Cut 6.0.6, same combo. Am I missing something on the settings? Have tried most all I think. 1080i 29.97 plays perfectly on this combo w M100, BTW. i.e., does 23.98 1080psf playback on Media Suite 100 via LHi HDMI?

Jim Wiseman


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Floh PetersRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 6:35:50 am

What settings do you use for playback in FCP? I personally don't have a LHi board, but if FCP can play it out without conversion Media100 should also.


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Jim WisemanRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:10:42 am

Hi Floh,

Sequence settings in FCP 6.0.6 are 1920x1080. 23.98. Pixel aspect square, codec ProRes 422HQ, Audio 48k

Media is 1920x1080 23.98 ProRes 422HQ Audio 48k imported w Media 100 Suite 1.0.2 via XDcam Transfer

This combination plays back fine on HDMI with FCP 6.0.6, but will not play throutgh LHi HDMI on Media Suite 100. All of this material plays back fine on the DVI input of the LaCie 324 monitor as well, with enlarged Source and Record monitors, just not on the HDMI input.

Have tried all combinations I can think of in project preferences. I am hoping some combination of settings that have worked w M100 Suite for others in playback of 23.08 ProResHQ from EX1 would come forth to try.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated, as I have a a lot of XDcam EX1 material at 23.98 I would much prefer to edit on the M100 Suite.

Jim Wiseman


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Floh PetersRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:43:29 am

Then I guess I cannot really help without a LHi. Maybe Wick and his guys can look into the issue.



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Jim WisemanRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 8:51:21 am

BTW, the LaCie monitor reports the 23.98 1080psf as 1080i, which is what i believe it actually is. Floh, if you don't have the LHi, have your or anyone else been able to playback 23.98 1080psf from XDcam. Trying to narrow this down.

Thanks,

Jim Wiseman


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Floh PetersRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 10:22:41 am

Yes, Psf is progressive media over an interlaced connection.



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Wickham StrubRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 1:21:59 pm

Jim,

A few questions that should help narrow it down...

Are you playing the exact same media from FCP as from M100? or are you importing separately into both NLEs and then playing back the respective media files?

When you write it "doesn't play", do you mean that it doesn't display on the external monitor, or that the media doesn't play at all? (I'm assuming the former)

You wrote that the monitor reports the 1080i, what does it report when FCP is playing the media?

~Wick



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Jim WisemanRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 6:56:38 pm

Hi Wickham,

Thanks for your response on what should be a day off.

The media is the same. Imported from Media Suite via XDcam Transfer, the standard method for both M100 and FCP. In M100, it plays back in the Source and Record windows of M100, but not through the LHi, at least at a rate the LaCie can display. The LaCie reports it most often as 26kHz Horizontal, 47Hz Vertical and shows a black screen or just a thin gray horizontal line across the center of the display.

In FCP 6.0.6 it plays fine, with the setups shown in the posted screen grabs. When LHi CP is selected and in Digital Out, Primary is 23.98sf , Secondary is 1080i 29.97 prior to selecting FCP as the controlling application. and monitor reports it as 1080i, which I believe is what you would expect from psf material. When playing from FCP it is indeed showing up without interlace artifacts, stepping through w arrow, 24 fps. not interlaced on monitor. LHi Control panel displaying Digital out or HDMI out changes to 1080i 29.97 both Primary and secondary when playing back w FCP.

I cannot grab a FCP screen showing CP settings on Digital Out or HDMI Out as Grab app changes the CP settings when it is active, but they report 1080i 29.97 in both settings when FCP is playing successfully to the monitor form 23.98psf timeline.

I have also posted a screen grab of M100 when unsuccessfuly attempting 23.98 playback. It also will not playback when Secondary of LHi CP is set to 23.98psf (no screen grab of this) If these settings are in error, please let me know.

It would appear that M100 is not allowing a 1080i stream (that is actually 23.98psf?) to be produced by the LHi, hence 23.98psf is not recognized by the monitor. This is my best somewhat educated guess after working on this for the past two days.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Link to Screen Grabs:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wiseman.jim/FCPScreenGrabs2398psfPlayback?authk...

Jim Wiseman


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Floh PetersRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 11, 2009 at 12:40:26 pm

[Jim Wiseman] " LHi Control panel displaying Digital out or HDMI out changes to 1080i 29.97 both Primary and secondary when playing back w FCP. "

I guess that is the reason. The Kona hardware can convert 23.98 material to 29.97, which is obviously what FCP is doing right now. This function is currently not supported in Media 100, as far as I know.
One of the most obvious reasons would be to monitor 23.98 material on a regular 29.97/NTSC display, using the Kona 3, LHe and LHi downconverters, but it looks like the cross-conversion of the Kona3 and LHi also should output 23.98 to 29.97 1080i, which is really good for being able to monitor this footage.
I think this would really be a good feature of the hardware to support in a future release.



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Jim WisemanRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 11, 2009 at 4:42:42 pm

Hi Floh,

Yes FCP changes the LHi to to 29.97i, even though it is actually putting out 23.98 in a psf "interlaced" stream. What I was seeing from FCP in that config was 24fps and non-interlaced stepping through frame by frame. Seems like M100 should also be able to do that. That is one area where AJA is a bit ahead on FCP, with the number of setups available for i/o. Is there any way M100 can gain access to that code, or mimic it? 23.98/24p editing is a priority for many of us. I don't ever plan to output to film, so 23.98 would be my first choice. It is very easy to translate to other international frame rates compared to 29.97i.

Toss ball to engineer/software guys?

Still happy to be back in the M100 interface. Editing seems like fun again!

Jim Wiseman


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Jim WisemanRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 22, 2009 at 3:07:42 pm

Hi Wickham,

Any idea when this 23.98 psf problem might be addressed, as it appears that without a solution editing in 23.98 psf (EX1, EX3) is impossible on an HDMI video monitor.

Thanks,

Jim Wiseman


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Wickham StrubRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 24, 2009 at 5:54:47 pm

I am not purposely dodging this question. I was just unable to get a meaningful answer on it yesterday due to folks being out sick or on vacation. I hope to have something to say about it on Monday.



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Wickham StrubRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 26, 2009 at 9:28:00 pm

Hey Jim,

Sorry about this... we had a temporary shortage of LHi cards in-house today so I was unable to do a "sit-down" with the engineer whose help I need on this one. The card is in my Mac now, but the Engineer's home with his family :-).

Tomorrow for sure,
Wick



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Wickham StrubRe: Problem w playback of 23.98 ProRes on M100 Suite
by on Oct 28, 2009 at 1:16:42 am

For the lurkers...

This one has gotten a bit harder to sort out than I had anticipated so Jim and I have taken it off-line for now. I'll post back when we have a better understanding of all the pieces to this puzzle.



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