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New HDe system- help.....

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Doug CalhounNew HDe system- help.....
by on May 12, 2009 at 9:45:16 pm

Hi all,

Just got the HDe system online and am having some problems. I've used a legacy system since the mid 90's and am hopeful for the new system.

1. I'm working w/component analog and have to disconnect my Yellow channel on the AJA breakout box "out" to digitize or the image jumps all over and loses "sync". I'm told it's an "EE"setting in my deck. I'm using a Sony DSR-1500A DVCAM deck. Once done digitizing, I can plug the green channel out cable back in and it plays through. Any input is appreciated. Both AJA and Media100 said ref video is not needed and that it's the deck.

2. The image quality is substandard both in DV acquire and component. I've digitized to Media100i, DVCPro50 and DV Codec with miserable results. I was advised to get the AppleProRez422 codec from someone with FinalCut.....anyone have it? I was shocked to hear not to expect the image quality of my old 8.2.3a M100i system due to the fact that the P6000 was a dedicated video board. Anyone have any suggestions?

If anyone is using similar components and wouldn't mind talking on the phone, I'd love a few minutes to go through the settings....it's got to be settings surely. This system should produce results equal to or better than the old i system which is still working here although disassembled in a few boxes.

Thanks in advance.
Doug



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Floh PetersRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 12, 2009 at 10:15:45 pm

[Doug Calhoun] "1. I'm working w/component analog and have to disconnect my Yellow channel on the AJA breakout box "out" to digitize or the image jumps all over and loses "sync"."

Hmmm, what Yellow cable? You have to disconnect Y (Luminance) from the deck input or you are creating a video feedback, which will cause the jumps. This is completely normal and I think it would also have happened with Media 100 i. There is not much you can do about it except e.g. getting a video patchbay, which makes disconnecting inputs easier.

[Doug Calhoun] "The image quality is substandard both in DV acquire and component. I've digitized to Media100i, DVCPro50 and DV Codec with miserable results. I was advised to get the AppleProRez422 codec from someone with FinalCut.....anyone have it? I was shocked to hear not to expect the image quality of my old 8.2.3a M100i system due to the fact that the P6000 was a dedicated video board."

This is simply wrong. The codec of the P6000 board was a hardware device, since CPUs in these days were not fast enough to compress or decompress PAL/NTSC video. It has been reworked in Software, so that clips digitized into Media 100 i codec should look exactly the same, regardless if they are digitized on a P6000 board or an Aja board. If you are seeing issues this is not something related to a codec. Both DV and Media 100 i should look good. How are you monitoring your signal? How are you getting the signal into the system? Compoenent? FireWire? What kind of format (PAL, NTSC)? It sounds like there still is something very fundamentally wrong with your system. You can expect the video quality to be much better than with Media 100 i.

If you bought the system recently you should have free techsupport from Media 100. Try giving them a call, since they are very helpful and they should be able to talk you through your problems. Or post some more details about your setup (cabling for input and output, where you are seeing the problems,…) and I try to get back to you with some answers.



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Doug CalhounRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 13, 2009 at 12:52:11 am

[Floh]Hmmm, what Yellow cable? You have to disconnect Y (Luminance) from the deck input or you are creating a video feedback, which will cause the jumps. This is completely normal and I think it would also have happened with Media 100 i. There is not much you can do about it except e.g. getting a video patchbay, which makes disconnecting inputs easier.

Yes Floh, luminance. I thought I'd need to run a ref of some kind for sync but AJA and M100 both said it wasn't necessary and that it was a deck setting relating to PB or EE. It happened with M100i but I ran composite to the ref and it was fine. Neither Genlock or Ref Loop out of the AJA Breakout Box to Ref satisfies the sync issue. I was told by AJA that the Genlock setting in the AJA Control Panel should remain in Freerun while digitizing...the fact that when M100 switches it to Video in is not correct but I've no idea? Will a blackburst generator solve the issue and if so, any recommendations? I always worked around with the i and am not sure how to resolve this.

[Doug Calhoun] "The image quality is substandard both in DV acquire and component. I've digitized to Media100i, DVCPro50 and DV Codec with miserable results. I was advised to get the AppleProRez422 codec from someone with FinalCut.....anyone have it? I was shocked to hear not to expect the image quality of my old 8.2.3a M100i system due to the fact that the P6000 was a dedicated video board."

[Floh]This is simply wrong. The codec of the P6000 board was a hardware device, since CPUs in these days were not fast enough to compress or decompress PAL/NTSC video. It has been reworked in Software, so that clips digitized into Media 100 i codec should look exactly the same, regardless if they are digitized on a P6000 board or an Aja board. If you are seeing issues this is not something related to a codec. Both DV and Media 100 i should look good. How are you monitoring your signal? How are you getting the signal into the system? Compoenent? FireWire? What kind of format (PAL, NTSC)? It sounds like there still is something very fundamentally wrong with your system. You can expect the video quality to be much better than with Media 100 i.


The signal is NTSC SD component in 525i 29.97 (601 4:3) brought in Media100i Codec as well as DV, DVCPro(25mb/s), DVCPro50 (50mb/s) and again over Firewire again minus the Media100i codec. The signal is monitored out composite from the deck to the monitor. These are the only codecs not grayed out that I can select. The video flutters a bit during camera tilt and is not clean. I'd agree, something is fundamentally wrong.


[Floh]If you bought the system recently you should have free techsupport from Media 100. Try giving them a call, since they are very helpful and they should be able to talk you through your problems. Or post some more details about your setup (cabling for input and output, where you are seeing the problems,…) and I try to get back to you with some answers.


I'm editing on a MacPro Nehalem 2X 2.66 Quad Core Xeon with 8 GB Ram, AJA drivers v 6.0.3. The only things installed are Media 100 and AJA Drivers. Been on and off the phone with M100 today. They stated my settings are correct, to try the AppleProRez 422 codec and to not expect the image quality to be as high as with the i system! I'm dazed and confused....



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Wickham StrubRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 13, 2009 at 2:42:04 am

Hi Doug,

I wasn't on the phone with you today but I did try to help Jon a bit with your problem.

I think something may have been lost in the translation re: your old M100i system vs. your new system. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the hardware codec of the legacy system will have better image quality than the modern software codec as a rule.

Floh's right, something else is wrong. Further, as a new customer, you are entitled to free support. We can definitely figure this one out. I will call you tomorrow.

~Wick



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Floh PetersRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 13, 2009 at 8:55:31 am

[Doug Calhoun] "Will a blackburst generator solve the issue and if so, any recommendations?"

Most likely a BB generator will not change anything here. You should check if you can set your deck to PB instead of EE, and if this changes your problem, but I think not. As far as I know you have to disconnect the Y from your decks input.

[Doug Calhoun] "The signal is NTSC SD component in 525i 29.97 (601 4:3) brought in Media100i Codec as well as DV, DVCPro(25mb/s), DVCPro50 (50mb/s) and again over Firewire again minus the Media100i codec."

What is your souce footage? DV? Then if you do a transfer via FireWire from tape into DV inside your Media 100 system, the files you get are identical to the material on tape. There is no transcoding/recompression/rewrapping or anything done to it, just a 1:1 copy of the digital data from tape to your HD. So if your source is DV (orDVCam or DVCPro25) it does make sense to acquire into the native codec.


[Doug Calhoun] "The signal is monitored out composite from the deck to the monitor"

For playback, you are now going via component out to your deck, and from there via composite to your monitor? Try to connect your monitor directly to your Y out cable on your Kona card, and set the video out from Media 100 to Composite&Y/C. This way you should see on your monitor how the output from the system looks. Then we at least know if you have a problem on the way into the system or back out again.

For mastering to DV you can again use the FireWire connection, regardless of the codec of your material on your timeline. So if you e.g. mix Media 100 i codec, ProRes, DV and other codecs on the same timeline you still can output it to DV over FireWire.




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Doug CalhounRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 13, 2009 at 1:51:27 pm

I will do so and reply. Thanks all for your help so far, look forward to getting it running the way it should and editing.



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Doug CalhounRe: New HDe system- help.....
by on May 13, 2009 at 7:16:13 pm

In the deck controls, under Setup menu-> video control-> STD/NON-STD, I switched to "Forced Non-Std". It now seems to have settled the machine into a cooperative editor. The deck had an STD issue apparently....;)

I'll keep you posted, now gotta find an old install disc and get my leaders/trailers back....



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