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external hard drive to work w/ Producer?

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GSW videoexternal hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 4, 2008 at 5:25:35 pm

Hey folks,
I wrote the cow about this a few months ago and didn't get very far but after finally having some time to troubleshoot, I figured I'd revisit it. I've got a couple of Producer 11.6 setups (one on a MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo (2.4GHz) and the other on a MacPro desktop Dual-Core Intel Xeon (2GHz) and I assume I'm going to need to get an external hard drive to digitize my media (SD) to via firewire from a Canon XL-1. Any suggestions of a suitable external drive? I've read Media100's recommended (& tested) drives but they are all $1500 RAIDs.

The problem I'm having is although my Macs have the appropriate internal hard drive space (300 GB) to digitize footage for a couple of projects at the time, I guess they are not fast enough to work. I'm getting syncing issues when I digitize clips of longer than 15 minutes. Once I playback a long clip and it gets to around the 15 to 20min mark, there's a noticeable difference in the audio and video (I assume syncing issues.)

Feedback I got from my last cow posting said I shouldn't be digitizing any media to my Macs internal drives even though they are different from my boot drive. They said they didn't think the internal, serial ATA drives were fast enough. Oddly, I have been using a G4 Media100i (Vincent) ver8.2 setup for years with an external Seagate firewire drive w/ no issues.

I was thinking it may be a situation where it was DF vs. NDF issues. The XL-1 is 29.97 so I set up my preferences and projects in DF. I've tried different codecs too (Media100i, media100HD, DV.) One thing I did do to troubleshoot was to import some footage from a MiniDV/SVHS combo deck which (supposedly is 30fps) and I didn't have any syncing issues. ??? Any thoughts?

I'd love to be able to use these 2 workstations but until this gets resolved, they will sit and I'll continue to work on my ver8.2 system. Sooner or later I want to take the MacPro desktop and get an HDe/AJA setup going on it but I'm at a state university and money's tight right now.

(By the way, I have no valid tech support.)


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Kieran MatthewRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 4, 2008 at 5:54:38 pm

Hi GSW,

[GSW video] "Feedback I got from my last cow posting said I shouldn't be digitizing any media to my Macs internal drives even though they are different from my boot drive. They said they didn't think the internal, serial ATA drives were fast enough."

Really? I've Raided 3 of the 4 bays in my MacPro and use this exclusively for video. I've had no opportunity to give compressed HD a real-world test, but the numbers stack up and it was handling 10 bit uncompressed quite happily. You won't get much luck digitising to the internal drive of the laptop, so you will still need a external there.

I would recommend the G-RAID FW800 500Gb. I was usuing this as a mobile RAID for several suites working in SD on 8.2.3. Some real time issues occasionally but overall, it worked well.

BUT. I don't think the issue you are seeing is drive speed based. Media 100 will give you a specific error if it can't stream the data of the discs quick enough. What you are seeing seems much more like a bug, probably to do with the drop-frame issue you mentioned.

K


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GSW videoRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 4, 2008 at 6:02:38 pm

Thanks for the tip in the hard drive Kieran. I have had the MacBook Pro for a few months and that's the machine I first started having this problem on so when I recently acquired a MacPro, I wanted to see if it did the same thing. It does. ??? I hope it's a bug. That means I'm doing the right things and it's something that can be addressed. ???


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GSW videoRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 7, 2008 at 4:14:16 am

also wondering if hooking camera up to the firewire 800 port instead of the 400 port would cure this or if 16 bit vs. 12 bit audio would have anything to do w/ it. ???


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Chris ClephaneRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 9, 2008 at 4:45:44 am

Just a few thoughts.....

1. Sync issues. Look up LOCKED vs. UNLOCKED audio in reference to DV recording (see following link).
This may be where your problem is.

QUICK ARTICLE ANSWER: If you are transferring unlocked DV audio over firewire and processing the audio clips independently of the video...there may be the potential for some drift issues on long sequences/clips.

http://www.dvformat.com/htm/features/2000/8_00/dv_format_faq.htm

Based on that (and having experienced similar problems in the past) I would be SHOCKED to discover your hard drives (in ANY configuration) were causing sync issues. Ususally ANY type of driv e problem triggers messages from the Media100 application. Media100 has ALWAYS been good about self-reporting drive speed issues and the like. (APPLICATION ERROR: source drive too slow, etc.)

One way TEST your setup (in relation to the aforementioned article). Redigitize your footage ANALOG. (Use the composite with analog audio.) I bet good money that your "drift" problem goes away when you work with THAT footage.
***Ok I just re-read your configuration and I see you have no M100 hardware on your macpro. TEST it by digitizing the footage analog into your Vincent 8.2 system and bring it into the producer SW. I would venture to guess that the sync problem goes away. At this point you would need to adjust the record settings in your camera (switching to a locked audio format) and your firewire transferred footage into Producer should then be fine as well.

2. We use Maxtor (1TB) external FW drives with M100Producer on our laptop. The Maxtor unit has 2 500gb drives in it that can be striped RAID 0. This provides a pretty consistent 60MB/second which is just fine for most laptop work. It is significantly faster than the single drive firewire drives..most of which deliver a consistent 25-35MB/second.
We use a firewire converter on the FW400 port for monitoring to an external tube (tv/monitor) and put the Maxtor drive on the FW800 port. Its a great setup on the road.


Good luck.


PS. (SHAMELESS SALES WARNING!) FYI-We have several Media100 8.2 P6000 lossless (and non-lossless) with DV cardsets with SDI and BOB's that we could sell you for (not much) if you want to upgrade the Vincent system.....






I edit video. I post sometimes.
I fix things. I eat marshmallows.
I play drums. I drink scotch.
I like TV.

Done typing now.


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Andrew MehtaRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Jan 9, 2008 at 10:38:01 pm

PS. (SHAMELESS SALES WARNING!) FYI-We have several Media100 8.2 P6000 lossless (and non-lossless) with DV cardsets with SDI and BOB's that we could sell you for (not much) if you want to upgrade the Vincent system.....

>>Might be interested in some of that myself.
andrew at united games dot co dot uk.
Ta.



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Robert SlenkerRe: external hard drive to work w/ Producer?
by on Mar 21, 2008 at 2:38:59 pm

An update: I've still never solved my problem of digitizing long clips (over 20 min) and not getting the audio and video out of sync towards the end. I bought a G-Raid FW 800 500GB external drive to digitize media to and the problem still happens...every time. The footage comes from MiniDV tapes recorded using a Canon XL-1 camcorder. Camcorder hooks up via the FW800 port on the front of the Mac. One person mentioned locked vs. unlocked audio but I see no settings in the camera's menu to determine this. I'm set to 29.97 DF SD mode. It's very frustrating when I've got a smoking Mac Pro (Intel) desktop w/ Media 100 Producer 11.6 and I can't use it for my work. At our university, we record primarily event videography (plays, concerts, seminars, etc) to run on our TV channel. I still have to rely on my Mac G4 Media100 8.2 system. It's never failed me. If this is a bug it may not have been seen because I assume everyone generally produces programs w/ short clips assembled together...not a 55 min lecture shot w/ one camera....sort of CSPAN style.



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