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Producer and HDV: a way to work

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Alessio Gemma
Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 3, 2007 at 11:23:46 am

Hello to everybody,
I recently bought a MacPro with a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card: I use FCP and Producer Suite (I come from MEdia 100i systems, so, for now, I'm not a good editor in FCP).
I'd like to find the best way to acquire my HDV tapes and edit it in Producer.
I know that I can downconvert my HDV tapes in DVCAM format and acquire them in SD: but I'd like to start with higher resolutions ans save my projects at least at 720p.
Well, my camcorder has HDMI output, and Intensity card is able to acquire from HDMI: so, I can digitize at full HD resolution (1920x1080/50i from HDMI instead of 1440x1080 from HDV) in FCP, export a self contained movie and than open it in Producer as HD project.
Do you think is a good way or there's something better to do?
Regards,
Alessio


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Floh
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
by
on Dec 3, 2007 at 11:58:01 am

First, I think you should let the guys Media 100 know that you need HDV support. They are listening to their customers.
The workflow via the Intensity Sounds ok. I would use ProRes as the Codec for this. You even should get Timecode from your FCP captures into Media 100.


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Alessio Gemma
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 3, 2007 at 1:18:10 pm

Hello Floh, I'm glad you answered me.

First, I wrote to David C (Dave) about HDV support on Media 100: so, I made my first step ;-)

About the workflow for Producer/HDV, I always use Apple ProRes as codec.
I made three different workflows, starting from HDV tapes: my final target is still, for now, a SD DVD.

1) Digitize through HDMI with FCP at 1080i, exporting a self-contained and then edit it in Producer as an HD project;

2) Digitize through Firewire in HDV and edit directly in FCP;

3) Downconvert from HDV to DVCAM/DV, digitize in FCP/Producer and edit in FCP/Producer;

Once edited, I export a self-contained and I use COmpressor to obtain my SD MPEG2 for DVDs.
Well, the quality is very good for all the three workflows, but the best one seems to come from the second one. Any ideas?
Anyway, I'd like to follow workflow number 1,: so, I can save the project in HD and maybe it could be useful one day.

The last thing I don't understand is the difference between Apple ProRes and Apple ProRes HQ: they are both 4:2:2 and 10bit depth.. but the first near 150 Mbps and the other over 200 Mbps... I'd like to know wich is the best choice for my workflow.

Regards,
Alessio


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Floh
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
by
on Dec 3, 2007 at 1:25:46 pm

[Alessio Gemma] "First, I wrote to David C (Dave) about HDV support on Media 100: so, I made my first step ;-) "
Very good. Dave is definitely the right person to speak to, and others are monitoring this forum also.

[Alessio Gemma] "1) Digitize through HDMI with FCP at 1080i, exporting a self-contained and then edit it in Producer as an HD project; "
You shouldn


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Michael Slowe
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 3, 2007 at 6:44:06 pm

Floh, as you know I currently upgrade my HDV (Convergent Design HD-Connect) and edit in Media 100 in HD. You suggest asking Media 100 to speed up their work investigating HDV editing but what we REALLY need is them to support the new Sony XDCAM Ex media because that is the camera which will blow HDV out of the water. Are they making any progress with this do you happen to know?


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Floh
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
by
on Dec 3, 2007 at 6:53:46 pm

[Michael Slowe] "You suggest asking Media 100 to speed up their work investigating HDV editing but what we REALLY need is them to support the new Sony XDCAM Ex media because that is the camera which will blow HDV out of the water. Are they making any progress with this do you happen to know? "

I think XDCam EX is really some steps ahead of HDV, but when looking at the sales numbers of HDV cameras I think it is pretty obvious that there is a big need of support for this format. And from what I understand XDCam EX is pretty much based on the HDV codecs (although an advanced version of it), so once HDV is supported I would guess that support for EX (which I really also would like to see happen) should be much simpler than it is now.
Maybe Dave wants to add something to this discussion, but I am not sure if there is anything to say right now. Anyway, the guys over there listen to their customers, and I really look forward to the announcement Dave promised for the coming weeks.



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Ajmetz
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 4, 2007 at 7:03:51 am

I'm really sad it's 2007, and we're talking about waiting for HDV support.

I remember shortly after I bought my 2nd hand Media100i, in late 2004, some friends of mine claimed they were editing in HD with FCP [early 2005], and I saw all they had were Z1s and FCP software, and were using a firewire connection, whilst at the time I was led to believe you needed


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Michael Slowe
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 4, 2007 at 10:04:56 am

Ajmetz, you can shoot with the Z1 in HDV and edit in Media 100 if you do as I do and use the great little box from Convergent Design to convert your media to HD and then you can acquire into Media 100 straight through in one function. There is also the added advantage of not having to cope with the problems caused by the GOP system inherent in HDV.

Floh, thanks for your reply, it's good to hear that in your (valued) opinion they will get around to dealing with the XDCAM Ex issue in tandem (hopefully) with their HDV work. I just hope it will apply to those of us still with the HDx hardware systems.


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Ajmetz
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 4, 2007 at 12:24:04 pm

Yeah, but I'm not gonna be in a position to afford HDe - and was shocked to see recently how pricey the Convergent Design boxes are too.

Hence looking forwards to a software solution in Producer.


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Alessio Gemma
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 4, 2007 at 1:15:54 pm

Hello,
I found my account dead today and I had to subscribe again to post some news.
Well, speaking about my 3 workflows, I found some issues on the downconvertion from my Sony V1E camcorder... If I set the camcorder to downconvert from HDV to DV, Media 100 Producer doesn't recognize the deck and doesn't want to acquire (even if in the Video Input settings it sees the camcorder as HDV Deck).
Other thing: the downconverted clip seems to be 4:3 and not 16:9... to solve these issues, do you think is a good choice to acquire in HD/HDV and then downconvert through software?
Regards,
Alessio Gemma


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Michael Slowe
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 5, 2007 at 7:24:09 pm

Alessio, I have encountered this problem and I think I got over it by downconverting the HDV from the deck direct to a DSR 20 DVCAM deck and then I could acquire the media as DV into media 100 through firewire. Media 100 does not seem to recognize the HDV deck because it thinks it is only going to emit HDV. To keep your downconverted media in 16:9 aspect select the 'squeeze' option in the deck menu.


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Alessio Gemma
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 5, 2007 at 7:42:28 pm

Hello Michael,
thanks for your reply.
I setted my HDV camcorder with the "squeeze" option during the HDV to DV downconvertion and I acquired the clip in FCP.

I'm really in trouble, because this clip appears as 16:9 in compressor and as 4:3 in QuickTime or Media 100...

When you acquire in Media 100 from the HDV downconvertion, do you set your project in SD 625i 16:9 or 4:3?

Regards,
Alessio


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Michael Slowe
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 6, 2007 at 5:34:11 pm

Alessio, I am in PAL land so my settings will be different but as far as your aspect ratios are concerned of course, if you want 16:9 your project has to be set 16:9 and the downconverted HDV (set to 'squeeze' remember) will come in at 16:9. You probably know that Media 100 does a great 'conform' if you are bringing in 4:3 to a 16:9 project.


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Alessio Gemma
Re: Producer and HDV: a way to work
on Dec 6, 2007 at 6:07:24 pm

Hello Michael,
I'm in the PAL land too and I posted a new thread about my trouble. Read here, I explained better my trouble and.. I hope you can help me.
Regards and thank you for your reply.
Alessio


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