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Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...

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Alessio GemmaProducer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 10:52:57 am

Hello to everybody,
I used a Media 100i system for many years and now, changing my old Mac, I use Producer..
My target is still SD-DVD, starting from DV/DVCAM footage. With the old system, I obtained very good quality in DVD: I exported in SCM (encoded with the Media 100 PAL codec) and then I compressed to MPEG2 (CBR or VBR depending on the clip lenght).
Now, I do the same with Producer: I export to SCM (encoded with the Apple ProREs 422), use Compressor to obtain the MPEG2 files and then the DVD authoring (without any re-coding).
Well, the DVD quality I obtain is not good...
Any ideas? I miss something?
Alessio


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FlohRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 12:01:45 pm

[Alessio Gemma] "Well, the DVD quality I obtain is not good... "

What kind of problems are you seeing? How do you view it? On a CRT Video monitor, or on an LCD/Plasma/Computer Screen?
Have you set the field order for your source material correctly in Compressor (Upper Field First for PAL material)?


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Alessio GemmaRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 1:13:15 pm

Hello Floh,
thanks for your quick reply.
Well, my clips flicker a lot when there's a rallenty or there're fast changment on the scene: in add, it seems like an aliasing effect on the objects border... when the camcorder is fixed, the scene is good but when the camcorder moves I can see an aliasing and, sometimes, a flicker effect.
I don't use any crop, because I found that additing a crop in a MPEG2 compression can add a lot of flicker.
Well, I see my final DVD on Computer LCD, CRT TV and LCT TV... but the worste case id on CRT TV, where the flicker effect is stronger.
In Compressor, I always set the field dominance to "top-first" even if it should do it automatically when you choose MPEG2 PAL.
Maybe, have I to set a shorter GOP? Now, GOP is setted to IBBP structure anf the GOP size is 12.
Regards,
Alessio


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FlohRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 1:20:00 pm

No, the MPEG2 GOP structure for DVD is fixed, you should not change these settings. I think from what you are describing you need to interpret the field order of the incoming file. It sounds like your incoming files are not interpreted correctly, and therefore the resulting field order is wrong. What version of Compressor are you using?


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Alessio GemmaRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 1:35:04 pm

Ok, I use the last version, Apple Compressor 3, coming with FinalCut Studio 2.
I export from M100 Producer in SFM and I obtain a ProRes 422 encoded clip: then I drag it in Compressor and I add a a setting structured as follow:

File format: MPEG 2
Extension: m2v (allow job segmenting checked)
Video format: PAL 25fps 4:3 top-First
Quality (it depends, VBR 2pass or CBR): maximum bitrate NOT over 7,7 Mbps.. I use a target of 6,5 Mbps: motion estimation is always setted to best
GOP: IBBP (closed checked), GOP size 12, pattern IBBPBBPBBPBP
Extras: no extras

I hope these info can tell you something.
Regards


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FlohRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 1:47:53 pm

It is very important that before you add the settings to the clip in Compressor, you need to select the clip and specify the field order of your incoming clip. Select the clip and set the field order to "Upper Field First" in the Information window (if you are using PAL ProRES material).
After you have set the field order you can apply the output settings. Usually I do use the 2pass Apple->DVD->Best Quality settings without modifications for quick DVD copies.
If I need DVDs with excellent image quality I use BitVice for MPEG encoding, since it usually produces much better results than Compressor.


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Alessio GemmaRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 2:43:55 pm

Wow Floh! You were right about the clip settings: I never did it before additing the Compressor settings.
I'll try this afternoon and I'll post the results: maybe it can help other people.
Just other things: have you an idea beacuse if I crop the movie than I obtain a very poor mpeg2? Maybe have I to set the crop to mantain the proportionality between height and width and both divisible by 8?
I visited BitVice website and I want to try that coder: but I've a MacPro Intel Xeon based, I didn't see any support for this computer.
Regards and thank you very much!
Alessio


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FlohRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 2:51:03 pm

[Alessio Gemma] "I visited BitVice website and I want to try that coder: but I've a MacPro Intel Xeon based, I didn't see any support for this computer. "

BitVice does run on a MacPro (under Rosetta), and while it definitely is slower than Compressor it does give better results.

[Alessio Gemma] "Just other things: have you an idea beacuse if I crop the movie than I obtain a very poor mpeg2? Maybe have I to set the crop to mantain the proportionality between height and width and both divisible by 8?
"


Somewhere the image has to be scaled up to full video resolution (720*576) again if you crop it. Basically the only way to get somewhat decent results is to do it in AfterEffects/BorisRED/Shake by scaling up the image part you want to use to full PAL resolution. So instead of cropping your image you scale it up in a PAL comp to show only the area you want to use. Then you do the MPEG encoding from the resulting file.
If you do a real cropping by reducing the resolution you have to rely on the DVD players ability to scale the files up to full PAL resolution, and usually the DVD players hardware is not really optimized for doing that (since it is not necessary for most of the content).


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Alessio GemmaRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 3:31:54 pm

Yeah, you're right... I always do the upscaling in After Effects, starting from a 720x576 composition: I hoped there was an easier way to do the same and I thought that Apple Compressor could do it. You've to add more processing if you use AE for this porpouse.
Anyway, I'm agree it's the best solution I found for this issue.
Thanks a lot Floh, I'll try the new compression settings and the BitVice encoder.
Best Regards from Italy,
Alessio


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Alessio GemmaRe: Producer 12: ProRes to MPEG2 poor quality...
by on Nov 26, 2007 at 1:45:41 pm

Excuse me, I miss something in the Compressor settings:

** Encoder **
File format: SD-DVD

- Frame Controls: none

- Filters: None

- Geometry: None

- Actions: None

Regards


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