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Exporting Chapter Marks

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Gary Milligan
Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 15, 2007 at 7:13:02 pm

Since upgrading to HDe it seems I can no longer export QuickTime movies with chapter marks. It works when exporting as reference or self-contained files but the set-up levels jump around when it plays a transition or title. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Gary


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Kieran Matthew
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 15, 2007 at 9:57:14 pm

Hi Gary,

Off the top of my head, there are two ways you can get around this,

1. render a title over the top of your video with the render codec set to one of the DV codecs. You can then export by reference without the colourspace jumps, in a form that compressor likes. Chapters can then be enabled in the usual way.

2. Export by ref and use QT to strip out the chapter points as a text file. After a quick touch-up in text-edit to change .'s to :'s, this file can be imported into DVD SP to add chapter points to a track made from the chapter-less QT file.

There are other ways, but I can't think of any at the mo.

HTH

K


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SoftHarbor
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 15, 2007 at 9:59:05 pm

I'm confused by your description. By "set-up levels" do you mean the NTSC pedestal? What do your chapter marks have to do with transitions or titles?

I speculate that you have clips in different codecs, and/or your render codec is different from your clips' codec(s), and that you are seeing different color and luminance levels when you export your program by reference or self-contained to some other application. If that is the case, try re-rendering with the same codec as your clips, or export to QuickTime movie with the Color Range set to whatever your other application is expecting.


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Gary Milligan
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 15, 2007 at 11:47:16 pm

I guess it's just a matter of terminology but yes, I was referring to NTSC pedestal when I said "set-up levels". Kieran used "colourspace jumps" to describe the effect I'm seeing and his solution of rendering a title track over the video is one that I'll try. As for what chapter marks have to do with transitions and titles... nothing, but when I play the exported reference or self-contained file, that's when the pedestal/colourspace jumps occur (when the transition or title plays). I've used the same codec (ProRes422) for clips and rendering . I'm a bit confused as to why Media 100 claims HDe can play different codecs in the timeline - which it can - but in the end they all have to be the same if one wants to export by reference or self-contained without the colourspace jumps. It used to be so easy with my old xs sytem - much easier to set chapter marks in the timeline which would then export out and be read by BitVice (my compressor of choice). Anyone else tried to put chapter marks into their timelines since upgrading from Media 100i?... it's not as easy as it used to be... hopefully someone from Media 100 is reading this (hello David?)

Anyway, thanks for the helpful replies... it's appreciated. I know I'll get what I'm after one way or another but it's frustrating when upgrades seem to go backwards.

Gary


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Floh
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
by
on Nov 16, 2007 at 7:14:35 am

Gary, first, you can be sure that somebody from Media 100 already read your comments, and all input to the company is good. But I think it helps to be accurate about the problems you are seeing, since the easier it is to understand and reproduce a problem, the higher are the chances that something can be done about it.

I am not really sure why you think that adding chapter marks to a timeline is more difficult than in Media 100 i. Can you explain this a little more in detail? From what I can see it is 100% the same way, and we do that quite often.
Second, the "jumps" you are seeing in your exported QuickTime is most likely from different codecs in your export. Unfortunately there is not much Media 100 can do about that, since Apple decided to implement YUV->RGB conversion different than the rest of the video industry, and since QuickTime does a RGB conversion for all codecs the Media 100 codecs (and AVID codecs for example) are treated differently than Apples codecs.
There are ways to avoid that: either to use a single codec (or a family of codecs) for a project, both for acquiring and for rendering, or to do a QuickTime export from your timeline (instead of a by-ref or self-contained export), where you can choose if you want to export Video or Computer colorspace.




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Gary Milligan
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 16, 2007 at 11:21:57 am

[Floh] "I am not really sure why you think that adding chapter marks to a timeline is more difficult than in Media 100 i. Can you explain this a little more in detail? From what I can see it is 100% the same way, and we do that quite often."

In Media 100i, all one has to do is park the CTI where the chapter mark is to be, press Shift F6, and voila - the chapter mark is there. All that's needed after that is to enter a label for the mark in the Program EventStream window. Can't get much easier than that. When I do the same thing in HDe, the chapter mark appears at the beginning of the timeline and I either have to grab and drag it to where I want it or enter a timecode into the Marks window... and then of course give it a label. Definitely not as efficient. Also in HDe, regardless of which method I use to add marks (the Add button in the Marks window, the keyboard shortcut, or User Marks in the Tools menu) the resulting mark appears at the beginning of the timeline and has to be moved from there. But it gets worse - I really got annoyed when I had to go through this process to set a dozen or so chapter marks only to find that they all disappeared from the timeline when I closed and then re-opened the Marks window - what up with that?! They disappeared from the timeline (ALL marks, including Mark In & Mark Out), but the Marks window still had the list just as I had labeled them - unfortunately they all had the same time code (the beginning of the timeline). Oh well, at least I don't have to label them - just enter the time code... and then make sure I never close the Marks window again (is the sarcasm coming through?)

As for the second issue -
[Floh] "There are ways to avoid that: either to use a single codec (or a family of codecs) for a project, both for acquiring and for rendering, or to do a QuickTime export from your timeline (instead of a by-ref or self-contained export), where you can choose if you want to export Video or Computer colorspace."

I must apologize for saying in my second post of this thread that I used only ProRes422 throughout this project. I remembered just a short time ago that one shot was processed in After Effects and rendered using the Animation codec. This is the first project I've done on my HDe system that requires a DVD with chapter marks and I just wanted to make sure my usual workflow that works flawlessly in Media 100i would work for me here. As a test, I selected at random a short range of the timeline to export to see if the chapter marks would export as well, and (wouldn't you know it) that shot was included in the selection. Of course the different codecs would cause colourspace jumps - I knew that from reading it here on the COW a while back... but then I forgot. Apologies to Kieran and SoftHarbor... my bad. Next time you're in town the beer's on me ;-)

So aside from the dysfunctional chapter marks, I think I'm back on track with this one and I should be able to get it to the client on time - but I still question why the chapter marks show up in the self contained and by reference exports, but not the QuickTime. I won't lose sleep over it... just curious.


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Floh
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
by
on Nov 16, 2007 at 11:52:40 am

[Gary Milligan] "
In Media 100i, all one has to do is park the CTI where the chapter mark is to be, press Shift F6, and voila - the chapter mark is there. All that's needed after that is to enter a label for the mark in the Program EventStream window. Can't get much easier than that. When I do the same thing in HDe, the chapter mark appears at the beginning of the timeline and I either have to grab and drag it to where I want it or enter a timecode into the Marks window... and then of course give it a label."


Not really sure why this is happening on your system. On our systems it works as expected (Shift F6 places a chapter mark at the CTI position). What version of Media 100 are you using?


[Gary Milligan] "So aside from the dysfunctional chapter marks, I think I'm back on track with this one and I should be able to get it to the client on time - but I still question why the chapter marks show up in the self contained and by reference exports, but not the QuickTime. I won't lose sleep over it... just curious. "

Good question. I hadn


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Gary Milligan
Re: Exporting Chapter Marks
on Nov 16, 2007 at 4:06:49 pm

[Floh] "Not really sure why this is happening on your system. On our systems it works as expected (Shift F6 places a chapter mark at the CTI position). What version of Media 100 are you using? "

I'm using HDe 12.0.2 (NTSC) / OS 10.4.11 / QT 7.3

[Floh] "Good question. I hadn


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