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Media 100 or FCP

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LandofNid
Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 10, 2007 at 7:45:07 pm

Greetings fellow cowheads!

Forgive please this is the continuation of my post from the FCP Forum. I only post it here because I would like to know what Media 100 editors think as well. Thanks for your time!

I should give you some background on myself. I am a professional Editor/DVD Author with 3 years experience under my belt. The production company I am employed by works primarily in critical high end to middle end broadcast commercials, and corporate video. In short we work on whatever pays the bills. It could be shooting for the web one day and crewing a documentary the next. We are known in our market by a very good reputation. Production company's call and refer customers to us when they're stuck because we are skilled, knowledgeable and critical minded.

When I first started editing in college it was on Software Media 100. My school soon jumped to Final Cut Pro. (It was much cheaper and the new trend in the industry at the time.) I have always viewed myself as an editor. I am not a Final Cut Pro editor. I am an editor. It doesn't matter which editing software; I will learn, find the strengths and weaknesses of a program and edit with it.

Now I am at a crossroads so to speak. I currently use FCS1 and I have been happily editing on Final Cut Pro 5.1.2 for the past 2 years. I have not updated to newer versions because I was in the middle of large projects and due to posts on the cow about bugs, and issues. (Thanks to everyone who posted about this!)

Now I am at a point where I would like to update some programs. I will be buying Adobe Aftereffects CS3. I currently own Photoshop CS2, and Illustrator CS2. I have been happy with Final Cut Pro 95% of the time. I realize it isn't perfect but there is no such thing as a perfect program.

I have read extensively about the problems and issues involved with buying FCS2. Sure the open timeline is great however there are bugs in just about all of the programs. These issues range from longer render times (Motion 3) to anti-alias issues (Motion 3) and many others that I won't list. Any search on cow reveals some issues run into by users.

This question is for the FCS2 users out there. What is your consensus on the new upgrade? Is it worth it? My 3D motion graphics are created in Adobe Aftereffects because it works. I use motion 2.0 for quick and dirty effects, and Aftereffects for true 3D. I also author in DVDSP, and I am happy with Compressor. I use AJA KONA 3.3 to output for broadcast.

Is it worth me updating if there are specific bugs with programs that negate the advantage of updating to them? A $499 upgrade for two edit suites that will work most of the time isn't my idea of a great investment. I know there are some updates for FCS2 available on the apple website. Have these updates drastically fixed things? And why should I buy this update if I don't need Color, and DVDSP hasn't been updated at all?

I am working on two identical:

4 x 2.5 Ghz PowerPCG5
4 GB DDR2 SDRAM

Chipset Model: GeForce 7800GT
Type: Display
Bus: PCI
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: nVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0092
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 2152.2
Displays:
Cinema HD:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 2560 x 1600
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Display:
Status: No display connected

The way I see it I have three choices:

1. Update both edit suites to FCS2. Use Aftereffects CS3 for 3D and high end graphics.

2. Update one suite to Media 100 Producer or HD and one to FCS2. Use Aftereffects CS3 for 3D and high end graphics.

3. Update both edit suites to Media 100 producer or HD. Use Aftereffects CS3 for 3D and high end graphics.

Does anyone have specific thoughts or recent experiences with updating or jumping from FCP to Media 100? I realize this is alot to ask and I appreciate your time if you've read this far into my post. Any recommendations, thoughts, or brainstorming is not only welcomed but encouraged. What do you think of the new Software Media 100? Thanks in advance for your time and insight!

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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Floh
Re: Media 100 or FCP
by
on Sep 11, 2007 at 5:20:42 am

[LandofNid] "What do you think of the new Software Media 100? Thanks in advance for your time and insight! "

I think you probably are more interested in feedback about Media 100 by posting here? I just came back from IBC where Boris showed the new Media 100 Version 12 software, and it looks very promising. Not sure how much you know about the current Media 100 systems, but they are a different beast from the "old" Media 100 i systems. First, they run on the Aja boards, so if you have a Kona 3 you can get the Media 100 software to use your Kona board for video I/O. The old performance limitations of V8 due to the Vincent boards have been removed, so you get extensive realtime effects on the systems.
The main new features of V12 are support for various video resolutions (24fps up to 60fps in 720p and 1080p and i) with cross-conversion capabilities, and clip-based integration with Boris Red (which really is a great tool for compositing in the Media 100 timeline).

If you are familiar with the Media 100 i interface you will feel at home in the new Aja-based Media 100 system. The beauty of the very logical and intuitive interface has been carried over to the new systems, and all the new features like multiple realtime video tracks with full realtime alpha support have been integrated nicely. If you want to get a Media 100 software you definitely should get the version that uses your Aja hardware. While the Media 100 Producer is software only and does support FireWire I/O, the Media 100 guys also sell a software-only package for owners of the Kona boards. You will get an extremely stable and fast editing system with some great compositing features in V12, and of course a good connection to AE with the ability to move your timelines with all clips intact from Media 100 to AE for free.


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LandofNid
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 11, 2007 at 12:07:24 pm

Yes I am very interested in the new Media 100 particularly because I own AJA Kona 3.3. I won't need automatic duck to export my timelines directly to AFX and it's a very intuitive design. To my understanding editors designed it.

I'm thinking about setting up a demo with Media 100 so I can see first hand it's capabilties. About a month ago I downloaded a demo of Media 100 Producer, and I was in hog's heaven. When I first started editing professionally Media 100 was our main editing tool. We jumped to Final Cut Pro about two years ago. The problem is finding good editors. We have plenty of work but not enough help. I will keep thinking this over and reading more posts. Thanks!



-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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Ajmetz
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 11, 2007 at 8:18:29 am

I believe you can also have Media100 and FCS2 on the same system, booting the relevant Kona drivers from different partions.

http://www.media100.com/news/duel_boot.asp



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Nickel
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 11, 2007 at 4:10:14 pm

I agree that this dual boot system looks great. I'm still plugging away in v8 and never had a problem. Still, as I look to the HD future and upgrading my edit system, it would convince me to stick with M100 solely if they added Apple Pro Res 422 and XDCam support. Any word on this happening?


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Floh
Re: Media 100 or FCP
by
on Sep 11, 2007 at 4:17:28 pm

[Nickel] "Still, as I look to the HD future and upgrading my edit system, it would convince me to stick with M100 solely if they added Apple Pro Res 422 and XDCam support. Any word on this happening? "

ProRes works natively in V11.6.3 and higher (both for acquire and playback, like any other supported format). I


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greg
Re: Media 100 or FCP
by
on Sep 11, 2007 at 8:09:01 pm

For me, I only know Media 100. So I bought Media 100HDe with the AJA Oem and then also bought FCP studio. I created a dual boot system. This allowed me to edit under tight deadlines on M100 while I learned the FCP interface. Now often I decide if I'll edit a specific project om M100 or FCP, depending on the show.

I have to admit, I'm more of a producer/director/editor, so I'm not reall an editior with alot of time to tinker. This system has helped me a great deal. It worf flawlessly!!!


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LandofNid
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 12, 2007 at 10:58:00 am

I've heard that Boris Red doesn't work properly. Is that true?

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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Floh
Re: Media 100 or FCP
by
on Sep 12, 2007 at 11:05:29 am

[LandofNid] "I've heard that Boris Red doesn't work properly. Is that true?
"


Um, that


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LandofNid
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 12, 2007 at 4:09:50 pm

I had heard from another media 100 editor who said "If I i thought Motion was bad...Boris Red is even worse...it doesn't work...and he didn't know how anybody used it."

Now this was about 2 years ago. I take it that isn't true now?

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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Floh
Re: Media 100 or FCP
by
on Sep 12, 2007 at 4:13:08 pm

[LandofNid] "Boris Red is even worse...it doesn't work...and he didn't know how anybody used it.""

Not really sure what he is/was speaking about. There are many people who use Red with Avid, FCP, Media 100 and other editing systems as well as the standalone version. Maybe he does not know how to use it? This would not mean that something is broken...


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LandofNid
Re: Media 100 or FCP
on Sep 12, 2007 at 5:25:40 pm

Anything is possible. Maybe it was the setup? Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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Ajmetz
Trying to sound like he knows about Red in OSX, by talking about Boris FX in OS9.
on Sep 13, 2007 at 4:44:52 pm

Trying to sound like he knows about Red in OSX, by talking about Boris FX in OS9.

I use Boris FX and Graffeti tonnes because it speeds up my workflow far more than exporting to After Effects and then reimporting, etc, but I often curse the versions I have, for just being arse. For instance, have a 3D sphere, and some 3D text - can you make the text spin around the back of the sphere? No. It just spins in a circle infront of the sphere. Doh!
Set up some wedges/starbursts extending from the centre of the sphere.
Put it all in a 3D container, because you want to move it left or right or something, suddenly everything changes, as all the spin and tumble attributes look different when its in a different position, so you have to go and figure out the z pivot crap (which should theoretically work, but doesn't in practise), or you have you do some maths to enter new spin and tumble parameters that compensate for the X and Y value shift. Good grief.
That's why I think Boris FX software is an arse.
But I'm still using it right this minute actually, as although its crudeness can make sophisticated effects a pain in the arse, it's still quicker than exporting a M100 clip or timeline to a different program, and then reimporting it in. The integration with M100 is top notch. And if I don't like how it came out, I just double click my composition clip in the timeline and make my adjustments.

I have Adobe After Effects, and believe it's much better than the Boris products. But since discovering the Boris products (and the fact they can use After Effects filters) I've barely used After Effects at all, as it's so convenient having Boris as a plugin in M100, it always feels like you're saving time, even if it can be a hassle in other ways, if you're trying to do something really complex with what's essentially quite a simple tool.

But hey - put this in perspective:
I've been talking about Boris FX 6.1 vs After Effects 5 both in OS9.
I'm sure both Boris Red and After Effects have moved on a bit since then!!!
Well - I should hope(!).
I used my Grafetti 1.x today in Media100i 7.5, and was absolutely shocked I couldn't put my text in a rectangle with rounded corners. Wtf? That's one of the most basic features of DTP. Why isn't it in my titling software? Only square corners were possible, unless I made a rounded corner image file and imported it. =P Pappity pap.


Anyway, I'm oldskool as you can tell. ^_^.


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LandofNid
Re: Trying to sound like he knows about Red in OSX, by talking about Boris FX in OS9.
on Sep 17, 2007 at 11:55:14 am

Interesting. Thanks for the informative post. I sure do appreciate it!

-Nicholas Bierzonski
Editor/DVD Author/Java Boy
http://www.finalfocusvideo.com


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