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Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.

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Tevan
Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 5, 2007 at 5:35:56 am

I have been working on this project for over a year with no problem. I currently have about 820 GB digitized, and about 150 bins/programs in the project, all on an external raid 3 SCSI drive. The drive still has 1TB free.

1. First thing I noticed was a slow performance in Media 100.
2. Tried to digitize to a bin and received a "can not add to bin due to parameter error" message. The bin had about 900 clips in it. Is there a limit for clips per bin? I opened a new bin and digitized to the new bin successfully.
3. Shut down normally. Started up and received the "media search" window looking to link footage even though I have not moved or deleted anything. Media search finds media and re-links everything correctly. I saved the programs, bins, and project with everything linked, but when I restart I have the same files missing again. Shouldn't media 100 only have to re-link once and then I can save it?
4. After this, Media 100 is running super slow.

First thing I did was unplug all cables and then replug. I trashed the prefs, media 100 folder, and reinstalled the software. I have everything backed up on a firewire drive. I tried opening the project from the backup drive, and it acted the same way. The same media files where missing, "media search" re-linked them, saved, restart, files still missing. This tells me it is not my external drive, correct? Can these files possibly be corrupt?

I made a new project with imported bins and programs from the old project, and tried opening the bins/program with the same results

I opened a totally separate project and received the same results.

I opened a bin and "deleted media and clip" of all the clips that where giving me the problems, and then re-digitized the footage. saved the bin, and reopened successfully. This seems like a nightmare if I have to go through my whole project like this. Even if I go through everything and fix it this way, its going to take forever. Is Disk Warrior something that can fix this?

On top of that, the system is still running super slow. I remember on my older OS9 systems I used to allocate more ram the bigger the project was. Is there something I am missing? I have 2GB or ram. Is media 100i 8.2.3a not able to handle a project this large?

The only thing I could think of, is it's a disc i/o error, but external SCSI drive is raid 3 and functioning correctly. I never recieved any warnings from it. Did I miss something? Did I maybe miss some prefs to deleate?

system:
Media 100i 8.2.3a
P6000 card
Dual 1.42 GHz Power PC G4
2GB Ram
OSX 10.4.5
Quicktime 7.0.4
single 23" monitor

1.8 TB raid 3 external SCSI drive

Project:
NTSC 720 4:3
32000 Hz
everything digitized at 150kb.
820 GB digitized
150 bins/programs

Media 100 user since 1997.

Thanks for your time and help.


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Tevan
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 5, 2007 at 7:22:08 am

I forgot to mention this as well. I found something I have never seen before. Inside my media folder there is a Media 100i Document named "Media index." The file is 2GB. What is this? Does it have something to do with my project being so big?

Thanks.


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Floh
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
by
on Sep 6, 2007 at 5:45:04 am

[Tevan] "2. Tried to digitize to a bin and received a "can not add to bin due to parameter error" message. The bin had about 900 clips in it. Is there a limit for clips per bin? I opened a new bin and digitized to the new bin successfully. "

Not sure about that, but of course it can be possible.

[Tevan] "3. Shut down normally. Started up and received the "media search" window looking to link footage even though I have not moved or deleted anything. Media search finds media and re-links everything correctly. I saved the programs, bins, and project with everything linked, but when I restart I have the same files missing again. Shouldn't media 100 only have to re-link once and then I can save it? "

Yes. Relink Media only adds links to the Media Locations folders (plus it does do some checking on the clips). Not sure why you get this each time.

[Tevan] "First thing I did was unplug all cables and then replug. I trashed the prefs, media 100 folder, and reinstalled the software. I have everything backed up on a firewire drive. I tried opening the project from the backup drive, and it acted the same way. The same media files where missing, "media search" re-linked them, saved, restart, files still missing. This tells me it is not my external drive, correct? Can these files possibly be corrupt?"

Do you have a copy of all your media files on your FireWire drives? If yes, you should try this with your SCSI drives turned off (not sure if you already did this), and try to relink the copies of your bins to the media files on your FireWire drive.


[Tevan] "Even if I go through everything and fix it this way, its going to take forever. Is Disk Warrior something that can fix this?"

You definitely should run diskwarrior or e.g. Apple DiskUtility on your drive to see if there is something damaged. I would guess that you have a problem with your drive, either a hardware problem or a directory/file problem. DiskWarrior should give you a hint about these kind of problems. And it definitely is a good idea to have/make a backup copy of all your media files. Harddrives are cheap, so there is no excuse on getting a FireWire chassis and some SATA drives for backup these days.

One other thing you could do is to split up your Media folder on your media harddrive. Maybe there is some limitation on media file numbers within a folder. Create a new Folder on the top level of your media harddrive, and move half of the clips from your project media folder to this new folder (while Media 100 is not running).
You also could move your "Media Index" document out of your media folder (keep it somewhere to move it back in case it causes problems). I have seen these thingies sometimes, but I am not really sure what they are doing. I think they are doing some translations for special characters/locations, so maybe it either is too big or damaged and will be rebuild on the next time you open your project.


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Tevan
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 6, 2007 at 10:02:53 am

Floh,

Thanks for your quick response.

I have all the media files backed up to the firewire drive, and I did turn off the SCSI drive and try to relink the media to the firewire drive with the same results. That is what was telling me it was not the external drive that was giving me the problem. I talked to my local dealer, and they instructed me to bring the G4 in to run diagnostics. I brought it in and everything passed. My next step was going to be caling Media 100 tech support, but then I saw your reply.

I had already tried everything you instructed except for the last comment.

I first removed the "Media Index" file, then split up the media folder. I started up Media 100 and instantly noticed a difference. Everything was running fast again. I opened a bin and "Media Search" relinked everything as usual. I saved, and restarted and everything came up with no "Media Search." The project was totally back to normal.

I think you are correct about the Media Index doing some sort of translations. I now have 2 media folders each with about 400 GB and everything is running smooth. There is no "media Index" file in either folder.

Judging from this problem, it is safe to say that Media 100i 8.2.3a on a Dual 1.42 GHz Power PC G4 does not run smooth if you have media in one folder over 820GB. It seems like Medai 100 should have given us the heads up on this? Have you ever encountered this problem before? How does the Media 100 HD systems fare under the same situation?

Thanks for saving me the time/headache Floh.


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Floh
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
by
on Sep 6, 2007 at 8:54:40 pm

[Tevan] "Judging from this problem, it is safe to say that Media 100i 8.2.3a on a Dual 1.42 GHz Power PC G4 does not run smooth if you have media in one folder over 820GB. It seems like Medai 100 should have given us the heads up on this? Have you ever encountered this problem before? How does the Media 100 HD systems fare under the same situation?
"


Usually I don


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Tevan
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 7, 2007 at 12:31:35 am

After everything was working normal I wanted to get to the bottom of it and figure out if it was in-fact a corrupt Media Index file, or just too many files in on Media Folder.

I unplugged my good SCSI drive and plugged in the old back up firewire drive with the old single Media Folder to do some tests. It still had the "Media Index" file in the single Media Folder. I took out the Media Index file and every thing still ran slow. I then noticed a new Media Index file pop up in the Media Folder. The new Media Index file was only 2 MB. As I opened various bins/programs I noticed the Media Index grew in size. That tells me this is definitely some sort of directory translator like you where saying.

Still with no Media Index file, it ran slow. So I split the media on the firewire drive and everything ran smooth again. The problem is definitely too many files in the Media Folder.

I remember when I first stared using Media 100 I was instructed to make separate Media Folders for audio and video to digitize to. Is that still true with my current system?

Everything is running smooth. I just wanted to get to the bottom of it.

Thanks.


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David C.
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 7, 2007 at 3:07:25 am

It's good practice to not have all of your eggs (media files)in one basket (media folder). There are no limitations that we know of with the system in the way you are presenting it to the list. But 8.2.3 is way long in the tooth (it's been 5 years now-- WOW!), and when the product was released there was very few, if any, storage systems that reached the capacities you are working in. Because of this we did not test a system similar to your system so I'm not sure how we could have given a heads up. Beside that your system was working and is now working again, so it seems like things are OK and something was corrupted. That happens with any program. Best practice for any system (Media 100, Avid, FCP, whatever) is to keep your document files within reasonable sizes, and keep your media folders to reasonable sizes. Remember to back up your documents regularly.

Dave


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Tevan
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 7, 2007 at 4:46:03 am

Dave,

Thanks for responding. I'll follow your advise. I purchased 8.2.2 via the Media 100 tune up a year and a half ago. Not five when it was originally tested, but I understand what you are saying. I myself never thought I would be workling with such a big project in SD.

What is a reasonable size for documents? My largest document is a Program that is 2.2 MB. The program itself is 2 hours 22 minutes. Is that pushing it?

What is the "Media Index" file?

Thanks for your time/help.


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Ajmetz
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Sep 7, 2007 at 7:07:33 am

"The program itself is 2 hours 22 minutes. Is that pushing it?"

^_^ My programme is 2hours 35minutes, and I'm in OS9.
I do find things slow a little when working in such a long timeline, but it's no big deal. That said, I generally work in smaller programs, and then copy and paste all the parts together into a long one once done. Likewise, you can always copy a range out of your larger timeline, to a new program file, work on it there at full speed, and then paste it back to your longer timeline afterwards.

Regarding Media, none of my hard drives are as big as yours, and my current project spans a number of them, so is split up over multiple hard drives.


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imageco
Re: Floh. System slow, and looking for media that is alreday there.
on Oct 10, 2007 at 2:37:22 am

You did everything I would have done.

I have 4 Media100 systems. So I have a little experience with Media100 problems. And believe me when i say there have been numerous issues.

Once I had horrible problems similar to yours but my files were relatively small. We were producing TV commercials primarily. I had a bad cable going to my external RAID. It took me forever to figure out what was going on. Go figure. When external drives start going bad, it can be a nightmare. Don't be so quick to blame the Media100. Look at everything and I mean everything.

The idea that the fellow had about breaking your project into smaller pieces and then combining later on into a final larger project sounds like how I might have approached such an enormous project.

I've done 2 hour projects off my 8.2.2 system and not missed a beat, but I am operating off a gigabit ethernet server running on 4 - 250gig drives operating on Windows NT. (I guess Windows OS is good for something?) I definately think out of the box.

Good luck.


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