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exporting HD by reference

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Bobby Mosaediexporting HD by reference
by on May 1, 2006 at 7:58:36 pm

here is my newest pet peeve about media100 HD... someone please tell me if there is a solution to this

i have a 6 minute program with a ton of cuts, dissolves, imported composistions, and audio tracks. I would like to edit the whole thing down to about 2 minutes for a web-version. What i typically do in m100i is exporta reference file, then re-import it and just cut it down from one big clip in a new timeline.

i try to do the same in m100 hd.
export by reference, then import. Media100HD will not fast-import its own reference movie!!! this is so ridiculous. then i tried dragging directly from finder to bin, made sure to import as 1920x1080i, still no difference. then used the applescript "render range to bin" and even doing that it has to rerender the enitire clip. a 6 minute video takles about 28 minutes.

i think this one has sent me over the edge. FCP+AJA is heavily breathing down my neck and dont know what to do anymore...


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Michael C.Re: exporting HD by reference
by on May 2, 2006 at 6:00:02 am

I've tested this with SD clips and the M100HD imports the reference .mov files fine.

I tested exporting a ref HD clip and then importing at SD. It has to render (obviously), but it ends up giving me an SD standalone clip. (Although I get a field dominance error?!? when re-importing, but the footage ends up looking right once it is in. Playing on the Quicktime player there are field issues.)

But, as you say, it doesn't look possible to import a HighDef M100 reference file back into M100HD. The system wants to re-render its own reference file. Probably a fixable bug, I'm guessing.

Quicktime seems to handle the HD ref file just fine, and I can take it into AE with no probems... Just not into the application that created it... :(

Good luck w/ your FCP if you go that way... In the NAB demo they showed doing just this exact "feature" in their demo.

I'm actually moving to Media Composer & Adrenaline...


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Bobby MosaediRe: exporting HD by reference
by on May 2, 2006 at 2:41:56 pm

I was actually trying to grab a seat at the avid university section where they were having a workshop on the new mac media composers... from what i saw it looked fantastic, but their pricing!!! 30k is good money for that system and i believe that money will be better spent elsewhere. Let me know how it compares to FCP and media100 when you get it.


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Michael C.Re: exporting HD by reference
by on May 2, 2006 at 5:25:21 pm

We have actually been using an Avid Express Pro bay (with attached Mojo) for any of our projects that were OK to deliver in Analog component (or worse). I've been waiting for the day that Avid looked to re-dedicate itself to supporting the Mac in a meaningful way... And that also meant bringing HD to the Mac Adrenaline. The finally did that and had a great showing at NAB I thought.

Going to Avid is a huge change for a M100 editor. The system really does make you think in a completely different way. It is actually pretty frustrating at first because some of the simplest things that you've done in the M100 are done so differently in the Avid. So, it takes a bit of time to get used to. But it is so much more versatile than the M100 in features, compatability and (eventually) speed of individual tasks. You can totally map your avid keyboard to work exactly like your M100 does... and then learn a few (a lot) more tricks and you're an even faster editor.

I made the switch in my head while cutting the same short film side by side on both a M100 and an Avid. For narrative work, the Avid is light-years ahead of the M100. It was so much easier to cut on the Avid. For montages, I'm still faster on the M100, but quickly catching up on the Avid. And in the end, my Avid montages look better because the effects and plug-ins are more readily available and integrated. Just last night I spend way too much time trying to get the M100 to speed up a section of a shot to fit perfectly in between two fixed out/ins of the same shot. On the Avid that's a drag and drop away.

I think you're safer in dulling the learning curve by going to FCP. You can still think in the same way as you do when editing on a M100. And FCP still is a similar match in features to the Avid so I wouldn't say one is "better" than the other. But in the end, I decided to go with the system with the longest professional history and the one I think will work the best for what I do.

The big price drop on the Media Composers was a bonus to me. You can now get the software only version of Media Composer (thanks Media 100!?? lol) for $4,995. And an SDI mojo (i/o box) attaches to that for another $2500-$3500 I think... If you want HD (DNXcel actually) and the Adrenaline instead of the mojo (for better i/o and hardware accelaration), it is about 18k.

I'll still keep my M100 forever... I've edited on it since '96... There looks to be some potential with the Boris aquisition. But I just don't get the feeling that, in the big picture, there are as many people paying attention to the future development of THIS system as there is over at Avid or Apple/FCP...

Did you figure out any solution on the HD reference import bug?


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Bobby MosaediRe: exporting HD by reference
by on May 3, 2006 at 3:35:16 pm

we too have been using media 100 since 98, and our editors have dabbled mroe in FCP than avid so the choice for us is obvious. i've always wanted to learn avid and was hopefully seeking this oppurtunity to get into it, but its probably not going to happen. as we recruit new editors the chances they know FCP are better than avid, so that works well in our favor.

If you get the top-of-the-line media composer with DNXcel for hte mac, do you still have to buy all of avids hardware? or can you use your existing xserve raid and keyboard and cinema displays?

No solution to the HD reference, i probably need to report it to media100. but i dont know how to go about doing that, which number to call or who to email. its all very frustrating


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Michael C.Re: exporting HD by reference
by on May 3, 2006 at 5:48:36 pm

I'm with you... I've gone through their site looking for places to report bugs... Best I can come up with is: customerservice@media100.com . But I've never gotten a response.

So I just post them here. Whatever...

If you get the top-of-the-line media composer with DNXcel for hte mac, do you still have to buy all of avids hardware? or can you use your existing xserve raid and keyboard and cinema displays?

No, you don't. You can still use any keyboard and monitor you want. I know Xserve should work for SD, and I'd assume for DNXcel (but I don't know). We just got a 6TB Terrablock ( http://facilis.net/24D.htm ) and I know it works great with Avid and FCP... And so far it has been great with our uncompressed 10bit M100HD stuff too.

Now that Avid's released their flagship editor as SW only, you don't *need* any hardware. In truth, you can still get Xpress Pro (now with a SDI mojo) and have a very capable Avid System (Standard Def) for about $4,000 (you'll still need a CPU obviously, but it will work on what you got). To get a highdef system, you'll need the Adrenaline hadware with a DNXcel card. That system doesn't do uncompressed HD *yet*, but the DNXcel codec is pretty versatile and looks great. I was always a M100 snob about picture quality vs the AVID... They finally got it right with DNXcel though. And since it is Avid, most broadcasters have no issues with the Avid HD output. I think you may have a rare instance of, say, PBS that REQUIRES uncompressed HD, no questions. In that case, it is seamless to move it to an Avid Symphony bay to "up-res". Or, with a bit more work, move it to the M100HD for online.

It made me pause for a while, but I've found that more people trust DNXcel then I'm worried about. And I still got my uncompressed HD M100HD system if it was ever an issue...

...but this reminds me of my "lossless" discussions with clients. LOL


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Bobby MosaediRe: exporting HD by reference
by on May 9, 2006 at 5:51:57 pm

ha! i knew there was a catch. no uncompressed HD huh? thats kind of flip flop of media 100 and avid from 10 years ago. media100 with "lossless" and now uncompressed with no compressed. well after many debates we ended up purchasing a g5 quad with a blackmagic multibridge extreme FCP system. pretty excited about it. should be arriving here in the next couple of weeks.

does anyone know if m100hd vers 11.0 will be a free upgrade?


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