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firewire or y/c out

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Williamfirewire or y/c out
by on Jul 19, 2005 at 7:14:34 pm

I have a M100 5.1 and digitize my footage via a digital VTR y/c out into the M100 y/c in. Would firewire actually yield better picture quality? I have a P6000 board so would need to get the daughter board to firewire my footage. But would the quality be that much better?
Thanks.


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Jim WiglerYes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 20, 2005 at 12:54:46 am

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...


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John BuckRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 20, 2005 at 2:04:50 am

william

another option

why not wait until the new M100 Software only version is released commercially (its in beta release now and you can download from M100 site) which we expect to be firewire native i/o and use that?

it would give you hundreds of improvements from Vers 5 and you would also get the latest speed bumps. of course you'll need a G5 and it will rob M100 of a DV option sale but to get the best bang for your buck (i am allowed to say that) i would wait

john - buck
velocite.net


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WilliamRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 20, 2005 at 1:24:51 pm

Thanks for the replies....questions: 1. using the daughter DV board to the P6000, will I be able to adjust the input controls (brightness, black, color, phase) as I input via firewire?. 2. Does the new M100 software mentioned require a new board?
Thanks, again.


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Wayne V.Re: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 20, 2005 at 7:58:13 pm

Answer to question one... no, no, no. No TBC controls on a firewire signal. What's on the tape is what you get in the computer. you'd have to color correct as you edit (add render time to your session).


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John BuckRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 20, 2005 at 11:44:43 pm

question 2 - yes the new M100 is a new board and unless you have an extension chassis to place it in, it wont work with a G4. It simply doesnt fit.
So you may be up for a new G5, new graphics cards and new software BUT make sure you weigh up these costs versus the daughter card P6000 option. That deal is very old and you are buying old albeit great technology. I'm not aying dont do i t- I did a few years back and it has given one of my suites greater flexibility bu tjust be aware that it may be better to make a big jump as you have waited so long!
john


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Lukkee ChongRe: Media100SW
by on Jul 21, 2005 at 3:48:36 am

Like the name implies (Media100SW), it has no board set, but will have firewire input/output on its release I am informed. The Media100HD has a board set but needs a G5 dual 2.5 or 2.7 and has no firwire.
lc


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Jim WiglerNo firewire? Really? And no analog audio?
by on Jul 21, 2005 at 6:26:42 pm

The more I learn about Media 100 HD the more I'm reluctant to invest in it.


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Lukkee ChongRe: No firewire? Really? And no analog audio?
by on Jul 21, 2005 at 7:09:56 pm

Please check media100.com for details. Media100i and HD systems work great for me and the projects I do. You should find the system that suits your needs.
Cheers,
lc


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Lawrence MarshallRe: No firewire? Really? And no analog audio?
by on Jul 21, 2005 at 11:46:13 pm

One other little "surprise" is that you'll be investing in more than just a new boardset and breakout box for M100 HD. You'll also have to invest in a analog-to-digital audio converter, since the breakout box does not take analog audio. Unless you have a digital mixer, you'll need a A/D converter to get audio in - and a digital-to-analog converter to get the audio out.

Also, M100 HD no longer offers an internal proc amp... the digitizing window that allows you to adjust video levels on the way in as you digitize. If your deck does not have a proc amp built in (the Sony UVW decks, for example, do not), the signal goes in just as it exists on tape. You can still color-correct and level-correct *after* digitizing, but I really got used to correcting stuff as much as I could on the way in before digitizing.

Larry Marshall


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JennyRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 24, 2005 at 2:14:00 am

Okay, I am confused. I have a G4 Mac with M100ixr vers 7.3 w/ P6000 board. What will give me the best quality, digitizing and outputting? Using my firewire in/out the P6000 board or using the SVHS y/c cable in the breakout box? I was told the SVHS y/c cable was better quality than the firewire. Please help, thanks.

In fact can someone tell the order from best to worst quality? I thought it was: component, y/c, firewire, and composite.


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Wayne V.Re: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 25, 2005 at 10:33:35 pm

Some people say firewire is better from DV tape because you're keeping an all digital signal path. The bad part of that is a) no proc amp controls on input and b) color space is 4:1:1 (4:2:0 in PAL). This comes into consideration if you are doing a lot of compositing. The s-video line (even though its being converted from digital to analog a) gives you proc amp control on input and b) is upconverted to 4:2:2 color space. This is a little misleading because there still isn't "enough" color to do real high end compositing, but you might see a little difference if you pull a chromakey from the s-video signal. Hope that helps.
Wayne


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FlohRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 25, 2005 at 10:37:56 pm

[Wayne V.] "The s-video line (even though its being converted from digital to analog a) gives you proc amp control on input and b) is upconverted to 4:2:2 color space. This is a little misleading because there still isn't "enough" color to do real high end compositing, but you might see a little difference if you pull a chromakey from the s-video signal. "

Actually the Media 100 i FireWire input is also upsampled to 4:2:2 when the signal moves into the Media 100 codec chip. Everything inside Media 100 i (unlike HD or sw) is in the "native" Media 100 i codec, which is 8bit 4:2:2 independant of which input you do use. But uprezzing a 4:1:1 (or 4:2:0 signal) does not make much sense unless you recompress it (e.g. for effects, transitions, anything that needs to render). A keyer does not gain anything from converting a signal recorded at 4:2:0 into a 4:2:2 or 4:4:4:4 signal.


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WilliamRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 26, 2005 at 7:34:37 pm

So, aside from the proc amp control, how much better is the captured pix quality of 'firewire in' compared to 'y/c in' (into the M100)?


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Bobby MosaediRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 27, 2005 at 3:02:54 pm

simply put, you will have the least amount of picure loss and quality if you do firewire in and out. i use firewire in so i get the best picture quality possible when outputting to beta. and if there are any of you still digitizing analog video at 640x480, just stop. start all your programs at 720x486. this will allow you to mix your dv footage with analog video.

firewire is great, i just wouldnt use it as way of controlling my deck. if your deck has rs422 control, use that instead, but still use the DV port for video + audio.

if your need to control the gain from your audio on your dv tape, id digitize analog audio set at 48k, so you can set your levels properly if they are not good on the tape.

is there a way to disable 640x480 options in the hardware settings? i want to prevent people here from making those mistakes when trying to mix analog footage and DV footage.


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JennyRe: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...
by on Jul 29, 2005 at 6:34:47 pm

Okay, well I did my own tests.

I digitized my last job with y/c and re-digitized it again with firewire DV. First of all, when digitizing with y/c I really missed having the deck control or time code I had with DV. The digitizing did not automatically stop at the end of video like it does when digitizing with DV, y/c stopped at end of tape.

Next I put both clips on time line and cut between. I noticed dramatic differences. The y/c audio was much too low, also the video was more saturated, darker and no detail in blacks. Over all, I prefer the DV firewire.

Thanks to everyone who responded.


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