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Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?

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Carmi Weinzweig
Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 9, 2019 at 7:38:32 pm

Seems like standalone Fusion is not EoL (Fusion Studio 16). Any thoughts on the upgrade? Anyone at NAB have a chance to play with it or talk to Blackmagic about it?


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 9, 2019 at 9:18:41 pm

Fusion 16 is the Resolve Fusion module ripped out and standing in for the real standalone Fusion ... which we now have to assume is effectively dead.

Fusion now stands in relation to Resolve much like Apple Motion stands in relation to FCP X - it's a humble helper application, there to provide titling and basic VFX and mograph support.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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David Mathis
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 9, 2019 at 10:13:36 pm

I respectfully disagree. This version will be of use to anyone needing to do a higher compositing workflow without having to use Nuke or After Effects when Motion is not the right tool for the job. Motion is really designed to be an extension of Final Cut Pro X though it can do other tasks for something simple to intermediate in some situations. The question now is whether or not Adobe will lose some market share. My prediction is that a few will migrate to the BMD side of the pond. Will it be significant? It is a wait and see game.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 9, 2019 at 10:20:39 pm

The point to consider here is that Fusion has been a tool for high end VFX artists since the last century. It was built specifically for that purpose and it served it very well. That group of users will be extremely dismayed. This is a major downgrade for Fusion and those users will now definitely desert it. That might not include you, but let's not dismiss them quite so casually.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Shawn Miller
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 12:17:42 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "The point to consider here is that Fusion has been a tool for high end VFX artists since the last century. It was built specifically for that purpose and it served it very well. That group of users will be extremely dismayed. This is a major downgrade for Fusion and those users will now definitely desert it. That might not include you, but let's not dismiss them quite so casually."

It's unfortunate, but I think you're right Simon. Fusion is fantastic... but what incentive do long time VFX users have to stay with an application that's only seen one update in 2 years and virtually no marketing? Especially when they work in an industry that changes so quickly and is so heavily dominated by Nuke? Without those experienced artists, what will inspire new users to even try the standalone application?

Shawn



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 7:37:53 am

Yes, you're absolutely right. There has been no move to enhance Fusion specifically for VFX users and all the work has gone into dumbing it down and making it a module within Resolve.

However, Fusion 16 - the new standalone version - really does mark the end of the road. Note that the latest standalone version was Fusion 9, so the jump to 16 is very telling- it's all about alignment with Resolve.

And the key thing to notice is that Fusion 16 now doesn't look like Fusion at all - instead it's simply the Resolve Fusion Page offered as a standalone application. That's a massive change and a very damaging one. The Resolve Fusion Page UI is very poorly suited to complex VFX projects and that is now clearly now the target - the aim has been to bring it as close as possible to the Resolve UI for better integration.

The whole point of the "old" Fusion UI model was to give you total flexibility:



The "Fusion Page" model replaces that with a locked down set of limited options:



But the real issue is that while Nuke continues to set new benchmarks, Fusion has long since given up on doing any of the catching up it needs to do, so it's really now a tool from another older era. Of course you can still do great work with it but who at the cutting edge is going to forego the advanced functionality of Nuke? Everyone hates the Foundry business model, but that doesn't stop it being the totally dominant player in this market sector.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Shawn Miller
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 4:13:14 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] " Everyone hates the Foundry business model, but that doesn't stop it being the totally dominant player in this market sector."

Agreed on all points, especially this! I'll continue to use Fusion Studio for as long as it's useful, but I don't have a lot of faith that it won't become BMD's Shake.

Shawn



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 5:15:52 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I'll continue to use Fusion Studio for as long as it's useful, but I don't have a lot of faith that it won't become BMD's Shake. "

Oddly I think it's pretty certain that BMD are not now going to drop Fusion because it's now so tightly tied into the Resolve application - for example, rather than build a proper title engine for Resolve (which it has always needed) it looks as though they have decided to leverage Fusion title comps to offer ready-made presets.

However in a sense, they already have killed it off in its original essence - like the Borg, they've "assimilated" it ;-)

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 5:17:25 pm

In a very real sense the use of Fusion as a titling engine very closely mimics the FCP X/Motion relationship. Would you agree?

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Shawn Miller
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 7:10:18 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "In a very real sense the use of Fusion as a titling engine very closely mimics the FCP X/Motion relationship. Would you agree?"

I do agree, that's what I meant about Fusion becoming BMD's Shake. It seems like they're taking the parts of the application that are useful to editors, and downgrading the program to a helper application (as you pointed out). I like what they've done to make Fusion more accessible to a wider audience, but I think they're missing an opportunity to develop Fusion Studio into the kind of hero VFX application that can do everything that Nuke does, at a fraction of the price.

What are your plans for compositing software going forward? I've heard good things about Natron. ☺

Shawn



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 7:32:25 pm

[Shawn Miller] " I like what they've done to make Fusion more accessible to a wider audience, but I think they're missing an opportunity to develop Fusion Studio into the kind of hero VFX application that can do everything that Nuke does, at a fraction of the price."

I absolutely agree. It seems so unnecessary to adopt the strategy that it can only be one product and that must be the dumbed down version. Why not allow the two to exist in parallel?

You'd have thought that R&D work put into making a truly top end version of Fusion would filter back down the food chain and make the overall "Resolve" offering stronger. Not to do this seems to me very short-sighted.

They're putting a huge amount of effort into ramping up what Fairlight can do - the latest version has some incredible new features. Why not a similar push to drive Fusion back up towards the top end of VFX?

I fear that Grant for all his many talents just isn't remotely in tune with the VFX world - he's not interested, so the development is never going to come.

[Shawn Miller] "What are your plans for compositing software going forward? I've heard good things about Natron."

Yes, Natron looks very promising. But I have to admit that my VFX needs are sufficiently modest these days that Fusion 9 still just about covers them. The problem is that learning this stuff so you can work as fast as you need means a serious investment of time and you need to make that investment wisely. If I were doing a lot more VFX, it would be ridiculous to consider anything other than Nuke ... and that's a really big shame. The market really deserves better than the total dominance of just one very aggressive player.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Shawn Miller
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 10, 2019 at 8:50:39 pm

We're definitely in sync on the current state and possible missed opportunities for Fusion Studio!

[Simon Ubsdell] " If I were doing a lot more VFX, it would be ridiculous to consider anything other than Nuke ... and that's a really big shame. The market really deserves better than the total dominance of just one very aggressive player."

You're definitely preaching to the choir here. ☺

Shawn



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Carmi Weinzweig
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 14, 2019 at 5:46:45 pm

If the standalone version is (and is going to be), exactly the same as the bundled version, why bother to keep it? Why would anyone pay $300 to get the same thing as they get for $300 in Resolve with all the extra functionality Resolve offers?

I would guess that this version was, as you suggested, designed to align the code base between the standalone version and the bundled version and then allow them to add back the previous Fusion functionality and UI but in a way that makes maintaining the separate products easier.

It cost money and development effort to build this new version, and I cannot see why they would bother if all they were doing is creating a less functional product (Stand alone fusion) with exactly the same limits as a more functional product (Resolve) for the same price.

I think it is important to make clear to Blackmagic, what concerns people have about the new direction and see if they respond.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 16, 2019 at 5:40:19 pm

[Carmi Weinzweig] "I think it is important to make clear to Blackmagic, what concerns people have about the new direction and see if they respond."

You should read some of the comments on the Blackmagic's Fusion forum.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=88866



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on Apr 19, 2019 at 9:24:41 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Apr 19, 2019 at 9:25:33 pm

This list of feature requests in respect of F16 show how specific and precise the requirements of professional Fusion users can be, and with good reason:

https://github.com/movalex/BMD_requests

UI design is ridiculously important for detailed VFX work and any wasted screen real estate can be a big problem.

Simon Ubsdell

hawaiki


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Emilio Sapia
Re: Any Thoughts on Fusion Studio 16?
on May 19, 2019 at 4:32:19 pm

I was reading this post as a guest and i had to subscribe just to add a reply to this interesting conversation.
I'm a fairly new fusion studio user (1 year now) and i feel the fusion community is growing and from both "we suck less" and "pirates of confusion" i hear voices of hope about the future of Fusion.
Of course BM have to make things right but hearing from "insiders" it seems that BM is listening.
So, maybe i'm wrong, but all i can do is hope that Fusion future will be bright, because i really love it.

P.S. Simon, thanks for all your insightful tutorials. I learned a lot from them. Still waiting for the gamma one, tho.


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