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Adobe are a joke

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Aindreas Gallagher
Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 8:42:34 pm

being completely genuine here - reading some of the stuff about the ongoing length of the lockout designers across all disciplines are now globally dealing with -

this is starting to become a horrible joke. People are being told to keep an eye on twitter. People who had control of their software, who now have no control of their software, are now at the mercy of a company directing client time sensitive professional customers to a twitter feed to find out if their toolset is coming back. seriously - read that sentence back again.

I harp on here - but the way this is going down, and the way adobe (whatever that actually is) are responding is slightly blowing my mind.

the backend is now laughable -and I really don't think they give a toss. If they did they wouldn't have three PR guys staggering around online social media, and a bunch of guys typing meaningless replies from a call centre.

this is a joke.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tom Sefton
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 9:03:58 pm

They used to be the firm you relied on for delivering a project from inception to invoice and would confidently back over big players despite their small reputation for video. Now they are the big bad wolf, holding feet to the fire and shaking pennies from the pockets of anyone who dares to install CC. So sad. When FCPX came out they had the chance to dominate the market AND look like the company everyone wanted to use. Now, not so much.

They NEED to rethink their policy with CC, and very, very quickly.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 9:47:44 pm

isn't this crazy though?

the weird mix of things here - the utter and total lack of a backend -

Surely the whole point is that the only safe way to deploy the kind of software toolset that adobe deploy - that exists locally minute to minute as client critical tools - is to in some sense hand it over. At least as a secured local customer item - subscription notwithstanding.

but the whole, whoops - we locked you all out globally, check our fun twitter or try our useless livechat-

it's just mental. and fundamentally wrong.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tom Sefton
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 10:53:18 pm

It used to be a quirky side to adobe, that from the uk at least, you would ring tech support and spend 2hrs in such a frustrating conversation with a very nice man from India that you actually started laughing. In the end, you might give up and eventually solve it yourself, or go to the cow and see if anyone had any ideas. Now, that quirkiness just looks like a hollow company which is set up fantastically well to design and update software, and take your money, but nothing else. It's a chronically bad situation that small businesses are losing money and clients over deadline slips due to adobes cock up. The whole twitter thing is bonkers - they might as well have a recorded message that people need to ring which costs £2 per minute and gets updated last thing on Friday with a monotone voice telling people that everything is in control and not to panic.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 11:40:47 pm

And it's so much more (to me) than this current issue. I only need AE, Photoshop and Illustrator, and an occasional Premier to convert a freelancer, or church's ; ) project. I don't need or want the entire suite. There are few companies around that I would want their entire offering.

I don't go food shopping and get one of everything from the store. Woodman's produce sucks. Metcalfe's is way better. On and on.

I was/am/maybe a huge fan of Adobe for years, nay, decades. Now?

Hmmmmm.

I am old and bewildered.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 15, 2014 at 11:43:56 pm

[Tom Sefton] "It used to be a quirky side to adobe, that from the uk at least, you would ring tech support and spend 2hrs in such a frustrating conversation with a very nice man from India that you actually started laughing. In the end, you might give up and eventually solve it yourself, or go to the cow and see if anyone had any ideas. Now, that quirkiness just looks like a hollow company which is set up fantastically well to design and update software, and take your money, but nothing else. It's a chronically bad situation that small businesses are losing money and clients over deadline slips due to adobes cock up. The whole twitter thing is bonkers - they might as well have a recorded message that people need to ring which costs £2 per minute and gets updated last thing on Friday with a monotone voice telling people that everything is in control and not to panic."

there has to be some way to get out of this.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 1:51:53 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "there has to be some way to get out of this"

Use another product?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 2:52:49 am

Interesting that Avid just announced the same $49 per month subscription - although they were smart enough to offer it as an alternative and not mandatory... time will tell.

A free or $999 version of Resolve 11 looking better everyday.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 3:30:48 pm

Yeah, I just can't wait for that new Avid After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator.

Oh, wait.... you say Avid isn't going to make those things? Geez, that leaves a boatload of people up a creek without a paddle.

Dave LaRonde
Promotion Producer
KGAN (CBS) & KFXA (Fox) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 7:23:25 pm

[Dave LaRonde] "Oh, wait.... you say Avid isn't going to make those things? Geez, that leaves a boatload of people up a creek without a paddle."

You know there was video production before Adobe right? Must be sad to be in the position you are in, so upset over Creative Cloud, and yet unable to even fathom an alternative.


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 9:51:26 pm

There's a lot to discuss there, Gary.

There's no real analogy, here. There are no alternative products to replace Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects. Individually, maybe, it's possible to replace one or another, but not ps, ai, AND ae. The inputs to that workflow do not require any video production. There are also other deliverables and creative that have nothing to do with YUV.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 11:26:53 pm

[Richard Herd] "There are no alternative products to replace Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects."

Well, there are, it seems like there's not just one thing to replace it. Possibly a combination of Motion, Hit Film, and certain third-party effects for AVID, Lightworks, Edius, ect. (not sure as to how much third-party plugins are available on that platform), and possibly not absolutely everything.

But whose fault is that? Is it Adobe's for making a product that was just too good for people to ever thing about switching until they decided to try out a new way to offer their software (and they are not the only ones, just currently the only ones going all in with the model)? Can not Aperture and Pixelmator get some people most of the way there?

And what incentive would it have been before Creative Cloud for anyone to even try? There may be those who want to paint Adobe as a drug dealer or some other asinine analogy, but if we were on CS7 and not CC, why would someone try to compete with that? Would the bemoaners have ever given a single dime to an upstart if it wasn't for a single change in how you obtain Adobe's software? Probably not.

And now, here we are.


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 5:43:25 am

[Gary Huff] "Well, there are, it seems like there's not just one thing to replace it."



[Gary Huff] "not absolutely everything"

Huh?


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 11:35:28 am

Sorry, that could have been clearer. I mean, there may be some obtuse functionality that someone uses that still won't be there, so I left myself open for that option. Clearly there would probably be some functionality that a developer would go, "no one ever uses that," which would be disheartening for that small percentage of users that do.

But the overall point is that with a combination of apps, you could probably fill in the vast amount of functionality.


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David Mathis
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 5:00:27 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on May 16, 2014 at 7:51:29 pm

I wonder how many people might make the switch to Resolve 11 when it is available.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 8:55:11 pm

Only if it is truly a functional editor that meets the very demanding and broad reaching features we need on a daily basis. Shared media storage, robust audio, reasonable keyframing, a type generator, third party plug in development and many others.

Slick trimming aside, there is much more to great editing software, like AVID and Final Cut 7 and dare I say Sony Vegas...

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 11:27:54 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "Only if it is truly a functional editor that meets the very demanding and broad reaching features we need on a daily basis."

But you are not willing to financially support software for it to finally reach that point. So why should it ever get there?


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 11:48:48 pm

Or some company wants me to believe that they need my pile of money to make that software. I am willing to pay....but not via subscription with no software unless I re subscribe. And I only need a couple of apps, not ANYONE'S entire suite.

I need options. Blackmagic is willing to sell their software that I can use perpetually if we like it....that is something I will invest in. But with subscription they can raise the price to whatever they want and unless I pay their price (it could literally be anything) the software is done.

Not cool.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:07:35 am

[Rich Rubasch] " But with subscription they can raise the price to whatever they want and unless I pay their price (it could literally be anything) the software is done.
"


And if they raise it too high people will leave. Just like people left Avid (and it's perpetual license) for FCP when they started seeing FCP as the better value.


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:15:18 am

People will want to leave, but Adobe is doing their damnedest to make that impossible by removing all exit strategies.

Even when people left Avid, they still had old perpetually licensed copies around to load up legacy files. I did.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:34:22 am

[David Smith] "Even when people left Avid, they still had old perpetually licensed copies around to load up legacy files. I did."

Maybe, maybe not. I know some shops that switched during the Adrenaline/Meridien days and they either stop leasing their systems or sold them when they switched so all they had were EDLs and master tapes. Once Avid MC went software only it became much easier to keep a copy around, but if you dropped $70k on an Avid suite it's hard to justify keeping it around if it's not earning money.


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:47:53 am

The point is, there where options, and each person/group could choose what worked best for them moving forward.

Adobe is trying to limit those options with their proprietary formats moving forward, specifically, trying to force people to keep paying no matter what.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:50:41 am

[David Smith] "The point is, there where options, and each person/group could choose what worked best for them moving forward."

Yes, and you can always plunk down an additional $30 for a month to pull open that old project and export out what you need to to get it to work in, say, Edius. Is that going to break you financially?


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:56:20 am

For one thing, if I have to pay more money just to use my files, then I haven't exited... it's not an exit strategy.

For another thing, if I'm opening a legacy file, it's usually much better to just load up the exact version of the software it was created on, than to try and use whatever the available version is that I would have to accept by signing up again for another month an indeterminate amount of time later.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:04:02 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on May 17, 2014 at 1:04:38 am

[David Smith] "if I have to pay more money just to use my files"

Let me stop you right there. Your files are your renders and video files. Nothing is stopping you from using those. What you cannot open is your project file. You can export an XML that can be read by nearly anything, but you won't get advanced features, such as the filters and effects that are a part of Premiere and are not yours. You have never really owned software, you have merely been given a perpetual license in the past in exchange for a set amount money. Now that has changed, and that is all that has changed.

And calling that .PROJ or .AEP your files is something of a misnomer. All you lose is the ability to open a project file. That file is still yours. Just like those old Wordstar files would still be yours, but if you don't have access to a Wordstar that can actually load up, then you can't really do anything.

Except perhaps pay money to buy an old machine that has Wordstar on it that you can run. But now you have just paid "more money just to use my files."


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:39:57 am

Gary, I am very aware of your argument here, and you're just plain wrong. My project files ARE my files. And losing the ability to open them is akin to losing those project files entirely.

What I export from my project files is mine too. But the work I put into them is equally important. That time and work belongs to me. If I need to go back and re-tweek something, my exports often will not due. I need to open the original project file and re-export. This is why I save all my project files. And this is why I need access to open them.

Your old "you never really owned the software anyway" is tired. If I own a DVD, I don't own the rights to that movie, but I own that disc, I own that copy and I have the right to use it forever or until it breaks without ever paying another dime. In the same way, a perpetual license is effectively owning the software and any person with half a wit understands this.

If I had some old Wordstar files (I don't) that I knew I might need to edit and re-export later, you better believe I would keep a copy of Wordstar around. I wouldn't be paying any new money.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:53:18 am

[David Smith] "If I had some old Wordstar files (I don't) that I knew I might need to edit and re-export later, you better believe I would keep a copy of Wordstar around. I wouldn't be paying any new money."

Even if it required you to keep a complete system frozen in time from, say, 1994?


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 2:02:54 am

You better believe it. I've kept things around that are much older than that.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 2:05:30 am

[David Smith] " You better believe it. I've kept things around that are much older than that."

Well, I'm not a hoarder, so I can't relate.


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 2:20:14 am

Go ahead and throw names at me, Gary. It doesn't at all help to validate your views. And you're actually incorrect.

The point is that different people have different needs, and although Adobe may currently be satisfying your needs, their new lack of options is no longer satisfying my needs, or many others I've talked to. That's one of the problems with their move to subscription only.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 2:52:24 am

[David Smith] "their new lack of options is no longer satisfying my needs, or many others I've talked to."

Opposite reaction in my circles. Almost every single person who has Adobe software has CC in my circles.


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 3:04:58 am

Well, that's them. Just because CC is okay for the people in your circle doesn't mean it's okay for many people beyond it. I have talked to a variety of people about Adobe going subscription only and not a single one of them likes it.

But, we're all different, and it doesn't do well being egocentric. More options would be better for almost everyone. Go ahead and like what you like; the thing that bothers me is when someone defends the removal of options that someone else likes.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 3:18:58 am

[David Smith] "Just because CC is okay for the people in your circle doesn't mean it's okay for many people beyond it."

Just because you know some people in your circle doesn't mean that the word "many" is justified.

[David Smith] " have talked to a variety of people about Adobe going subscription only and not a single one of them likes it."

Doesn't mean jack anymore than the variety of people I talk to who like it.

[David Smith] "he thing that bothers me is when someone defends the removal of options that someone else likes."

I don't defend the options. Adobe can do what it wants for how it would like people to pay for its software. I just call b.s. on people who want to bitch about something that's not the problem.

Like "exit strategies."


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 3:38:41 am

[Gary Huff] "Just because you know some people in your circle doesn't mean that the word "many" is justified."

I have talked to many people who don't like Creative Cloud or the subscription only policy. That justifies using the word "many".

[Gary Huff] "[David Smith] " have talked to a variety of people about Adobe going subscription only and not a single one of them likes it."

Doesn't mean jack anymore than the variety of people I talk to who like it."


It's a reminder that people are different and have different needs.

[Gary Huff] "I don't defend the options. Adobe can do what it wants for how it would like people to pay for its software. I just call b.s. on people who want to bitch about something that's not the problem.

Like "exit strategies.""


Even if my point of view was b.s., which it isn't, what could you possibly get out of calling b.s. on people other than some twisted sort of self-satisfaction?

Just because you don't see it or recognize it doesn't mean it isn't so: the lack of an exit strategy is absolutely a huge problem. Adobe can't just do whatever it wants without repercussions, if not to themselves then to many of its customers like me. If I come here and say the lack of a perpetual license option is a problem, and then you combat me saying it isn't, you are defending Adobe and their decision to remove the perpetual license option.


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:20:07 pm

I also don´t know a single person who "likes" this cloud (distribution - not functionality!!!).
And I know a lot and talked about with many.
I know people who are using it - but they are using it, because they have the feeling "they have to" or they "must".
So "many" is also right in my eyes.
A missing exit = b.s.?
Missing words for that...!?


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Jan Janowski
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 18, 2014 at 3:47:12 pm

At the time that I decided NOT to go to CC and rental software, I felt that I might be setting myself up for a fall..

Shortly afterward Encore was reported to be DOA. I use Dynamic Link to Encore in PPRO weekly.

Nearly 2 years later, (I exited in middle of CS7/CC beta) I still feel I made the right decision....

Some of the CC issues posted here (and even the last PPRO 6.0.4 upgrade) sounds like issues that should have been something found and fixed in Beta Groups...

It's not the money.... I was paying for updates prior to CC., and I'd gladly do it again (If they get rid of rental software and CC), de-bugged it in beta a bit more... and stop killing off programs without getting a replacement program up to speed first).

Encore (RIP) was killed off with no replacement path... That's just plain dumb......

Thank God for CS6.... I'll stay here!

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 18, 2014 at 12:50:48 am

me too.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:49:47 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on May 17, 2014 at 1:09:35 am

[David Smith] "but Adobe is doing their damnedest to make that impossible by removing all exit strategies."

No they're not. Your limited imagination is removing all exit strategies. There is no reason why a Premiere project file should be opened up as a format, nor do I imagine anyone has any reason to try to interpret it. What would that give an alternative NLE than an XML would not?


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 2:56:23 am

Oh, I'm pretty sure that Adobe is definitely trying to lock its customers in to getting a consistent revenue stream from them as long they can. I'm not imagining that.

[Gary Huff] "There is no reason why a Premiere project file should be opened up as a format"

Are you joking???

[Gary Huff] "nor do I imagine anyone has any reason to try to interpret it. What would that give an alternative NLE than an XML would not?"

A proper exit strategy from Creative Cloud means I could natively open a Premiere project file in PREMIERE, the same version that I created it in long after the subscription is ended.

Of course... Adobe doesn't want to allow that. It would undermine everything they're trying to accomplish with going subscription only and locking in customers.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 3:38:33 am

[David Smith] "Oh, I'm pretty sure that Adobe is definitely trying to lock its customers in to getting a consistent revenue stream from them as long they can. I'm not imagining that."

No argument there. That's exactly what they are doing.

[David Smith] "A proper exit strategy from Creative Cloud means I could natively open a Premiere project file in PREMIERE, the same version that I created it in long after the subscription is ended."

Apparently you have a different idea of what "subscription" means than I do.

[David Smith] "Of course... Adobe doesn't want to allow that. It would undermine everything they're trying to accomplish with going subscription only and locking in customers."

Yes, but they have to keep adding some reason to keep people subscribing. I would quit it in a heartbeat if I didn't feel it added value anymore, something that you apparently cannot fathom without your precious "exit strategy" that seems to only apply to Adobe and nothing else.


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David Smith
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 3:45:12 am

[Gary Huff] "Apparently you have a different idea of what "subscription" means than I do."

Maybe so, but I do know this, every subscription I've had before, I got to keep and continue to use what was already sent to me.

[Gary Huff] "Yes, but they have to keep adding some reason to keep people subscribing. I would quit it in a heartbeat if I didn't feel it added value anymore"

That's the problem, you can't properly quit without an exit strategy or losing the ability to use your project files in their native form. Oh, right... but you don't care about that. You have it all worked out with how you export your files. You think that only the exported files belong to you.

[Gary Huff] "something that you apparently cannot fathom without your precious "exit strategy" that seems to only apply to Adobe and nothing else."

What are you babbling on about now? Really? "nothing else"?


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 11:43:58 am

[David Smith] "every subscription I've had before, I got to keep and continue to use what was already sent to me."

What other software did you have a subscription to? Or are you just talking "magazines"?

[David Smith] "That's the problem, you can't properly quit without an exit strategy or losing the ability to use your project files in their native form. Oh, right... but you don't care about that. You have it all worked out with how you export your files. You think that only the exported files belong to you."

Properly quit? Well, you have to define "properly". I can absolutely properly quit CC any time. Your inability to consider an XML or numerous other open alternatives is not my problem. Or you inability to bill a client an extra $30 for needing to access that software for a month. Or do you just willy-nilly go back and edit old projects for fun where no money changes hands?


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Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:29:11 am

[Andrew Kimery] "And if they raise it too high people will leave. Just like people left Avid (and it's perpetual license) for FCP when they started seeing FCP as the better value."

Editing, Editing. Editing.

Again, it's not that easy if you're talking about the whole suite of products and their inter dependencies. I could no sooner simply "leave" because the price is too high than I can "leave" CS6 because I don't trust Adobe anymore. Not until there is more competition than there is now (hopefully in the works).

Adobe IS leveraging proprietary formats to keep people right where they want them in this whole game. We're agreed on that right? Like the strategy or hate it, can we agree that it IS a strategy to keep people trapped?


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:48:10 am

[Chris Pettit] "Adobe IS leveraging proprietary formats to keep people right where they want them in this whole game. We're agreed on that right?"

No, because what are they supposed to do? It's their proprietary formats, and formats like PSD and PDF aren't exactly locked-up either. But where is the desire to reverse engineer Premiere Project files or Flash? Flash is dead anyway, shouldn't you be looking to migrate to HTML5? Where is the money you are putting towards reverse-engineering Flash or some other alternative besides Silverlight/HTML5?

You people won't give a dime until the "alternative" has reached feature-parity, but I'm astounded you don't think it costs a shit-ton of money to get there in the first place.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 12:52:33 am

[Chris Pettit] "Adobe IS leveraging proprietary formats to keep people right where they want them in this whole game. We're agreed on that right? Like the strategy or hate it, can we agree that it IS a strategy to keep people trapped?"

Adobe and everyone else.

You are right though that editing is one area where Adobe has the most competition but I don't think that Adobe can jack the subscription rate up to god knows what and expect to remain viable. People will leave (even if it's to 'lesser' products), people will pirate the software and competition will emerge because there is now an opening.

No real competition has emerged against AE, for example, in part because people are happy enough with AE that they don't want the disruption of moving to a different app. If people become unhappy with AE (or the payment plan required to have AE) then they *will* start looking for alternatives and that will give competitors an opening even if their products aren't as good as AE. I see this as akin to users that switched from Avid to FCP in the early/mid 2000's. Avid was really the superior product then but some users were so annoyed with Avid's attitude and sky high prices that they were willing to switch to a lesser product in FCP because it was dirt cheap by comparison and 'good enough'.

In the long term I think the subscription plan can be win/win for users because Adobe has introduced a disruption into the market place. People that normally wouldn't be looking to leave Adobe now are looking to leave Adobe which means Adobe has to step up it's game if it wants to keep users and competing products finally have a 'crack' in Adobe's user base that they can exploit.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:04:13 am

[Andrew Kimery] "In the long term I think the subscription plan can be win/win for users because Adobe has introduced a disruption into the market place. People that normally wouldn't be looking to leave Adobe now are looking to leave Adobe which means Adobe has to step up it's game if it wants to keep users and competing products finally have a 'crack' in Adobe's user base that they can exploit."

I actually agree with this Andrew, and it references a good point Gary made as well. Without the disruption, would anyone even think about developing alternatives if everyone is happy with apps like AE? Very good point both of you.

Let's just hope it actually comes true. Otherwise, Adobe will continue to have way too much control over how people develop content. You can say I have alternatives all day long, but you don't know my workflow, my clients, my vendors and my deliverables. Until your theory comes true (and I hope it does) it's just speculation.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:07:23 am

[Chris Pettit] "Let's just hope it actually comes true. Otherwise, Adobe will continue to have way too much control over how people develop content. You can say I have alternatives all day long, but you don't know my workflow, my clients, my vendors and my deliverables. Until your theory comes true (and I hope it does) it's just speculation."

This is like the people who don't want a Wal-Mart through. Wal-Mart cannot exist if people don't come to it, and yet despite all the gnashing and moaning (like with the Wal-Mart that is close to me) it does a ton of business, probably even some from those very people who complained. I don't care for going into Wal-Mart as a general rule, but I will nip in there every once in a while when it is convenient.

Going into those mom and pop stores is tough. Usually more expensive and less selection, but if you don't make it work, then they go away and you have no right to complain.

I see it similarly here.


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Chris Pettit
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:18:13 am

[Gary Huff] "This is like the people who don't want a Wal-Mart through. Wal-Mart cannot exist if people don't come to it, and yet despite all the gnashing and moaning (like with the Wal-Mart that is close to me) it does a ton of business, probably even some from those very people who complained. I don't care for going into Wal-Mart as a general rule, but I will nip in there every once in a while when it is convenient."

I'm going to let this comparison go without comment except for one small irony Gary:

I have a Wall mart super market going in right down the street, opens on June 11th. I will never likely step through the door. But unlike some of my neighbors I'm very glad that it's going in, the mall was vacant, and now the mall has an attraction for other smaller businesses. Good for my property value. Small aside.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:39:59 am

[Chris Pettit] "Let's just hope it actually comes true. Otherwise, Adobe will continue to have way too much control over how people develop content. You can say I have alternatives all day long, but you don't know my workflow, my clients, my vendors and my deliverables. Until your theory comes true (and I hope it does) it's just speculation."


I do think it will happen. Adobe will either have to give people an off ramp (ex. a 'loyalty buyout' option), improve AE so much that CC haters will tolerate CC and/or keep the subscription price affordable otherwise people will leave. Adobe disrupted the status quo and changes are underway.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 8:04:19 am

I think people are leaving CC. CS6 is all for me. Adobe is in my rear view mirror. Until they fire the current CEO.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Jan Janowski
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 18, 2014 at 3:58:36 pm

I agree with you on the CS6 comment... I have decided that as well...

I'm not certain a new CEO would help, unless he has total control over the accountants...

Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


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Florian Sepp
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 19, 2014 at 5:50:44 pm

[Gary Huff] "But you are not willing to financially support software for it to finally reach that point. So why should it ever get there?"

i didn't read that he wanted something for free or pirate it? right? he is just, like many others, thinking about supporting a different company than before.

best regards
Florian

Florian Sepp visual arts
http://www.floriansepp.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 19, 2014 at 6:03:21 pm

[Florian Sepp] "i didn't read that he wanted something for free or pirate it? right? he is just, like many others, thinking about supporting a different company than before."

[Gary Huff] "But you are not willing to financially support software for it to finally reach that point. So why should it ever get there?"

To make it explicit for you, not buying software until it reaches feature-parity with the package you are looking to replace.


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 6:00:15 am

The switch? What is the switch...not a baseball question, I know what the switch in baseball, ergo the NL.

This is a real question: what is the switch?


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 9:08:21 pm

Windmills.

Stock price went up.

Your next strategy is a hostile takeover. Good luck!


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 16, 2014 at 10:07:10 pm
Last Edited By Joseph W. Bourke on May 16, 2014 at 10:08:49 pm

It's strange that no one ever talks about the CorelDraw Suite anymore. They were the standard in vector based drawing way back when, and their paint program was always just barely a step behind Photoshop. They are still a standard in the sign making business, the vectors being used for cut vinyl signage of all sorts. They have faded into the background, but not disappeared. I would suggest that anyone who has given up on CC give it a try. From what I remember, you could both load and create Illustrator and Photoshop files (AI, PSD, PDF, JPG, PNG, SVG, DWG, DXF, EPS, TIFF, DOCX and PPT formats, plus extensive RAW file support for over 300 types of cameras)., and there were some animation recording features which no other package ever had:


http://www.coreldraw.com/us/product/graphic-design-software/#tab3

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 1:44:50 pm

what goes up must come down
https://www.google.com/finance


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 4:09:27 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "what goes up must come down
https://www.google.com/finance
"


And apparently go back up again. The stock price is higher now that it was just before the outage.

The stock is up nearly 1/3 since Adobe announced a CC-only future last May. By all accounts Adobe's stock is doing awesome.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 5:13:19 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on May 17, 2014 at 5:16:45 pm

Which is obviously all they seem to care about (stock price). With this rental model it is guaranteed the user is in second place behind stockholders. This will eventually catch up with Adobe as people drop off CC because of events like those of the last few days. I am so glad I have stayed with CS6 and am moving to other software as much as possible. Adobe has gotten my last dollar unless there is a complete change in upper management (fire Narayen and his supporters) and Adobe truly shows more respect for their users.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 8:19:52 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Which is obviously all they seem to care about (stock price)."

Is Adobe Stock Down?

Yes -> Goto: "No one likes Creative Cloud and it's killing the company!"

Else

No -> Goto: "Adobe only cares about the stock!"

END PROGRAM


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 21, 2014 at 8:04:35 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "the user is in second place behind stockholders. "

That's why I said Aindreas will need to organize a hostile takeover! ;)


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 7:02:57 pm

It seems that not everyone believes in it.
http://finance.yahoo.com/ADBE Insider Transactions


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 8:20:41 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "
It seems that not everyone believes in it."


Okay, can you actually say more than that? Or are you not actually aware of what the point you're trying to make is?


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 9:02:36 pm

If I have a bunch of shares - thinking they would double in the next month - I won´t sell them out like that...
I think Adobe is absolutely "overdone" at stockmarkets.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 17, 2014 at 10:21:30 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "If I have a bunch of shares - thinking they would double in the next month - I won´t sell them out like that..."

You apparently are ignorant of how the stock market works.


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Richard Herd
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 21, 2014 at 8:06:01 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "If I have a bunch of shares - thinking they would double in the next month - I won´t sell them out like that...
I think Adobe is absolutely "overdone" at stockmarkets"


Well, my friend, you've only proven why we are editors, and the oligarchs are rich and powerful.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 19, 2014 at 3:20:50 am

Apple could buy them 10-20 times over, not that they would want them in this state…

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 19, 2014 at 7:46:19 am

Jim,

Walmart, Coca-Cola, GE, Bank of America would all be able to buy Adobe, but why would they?

Why would Apple?
What is the strategic value in doing it?
More to the point; do you really, really think that Apple, a company that makes a lot of money out of selling third party apps and content, would want to start moving software around in "boxes" just to please a few disgruntled individuals?

That is the $64,000 question ;-)

For a company to have take-over value there must either be a product that have a great potential in an untapped market and/or scope for cost savings in streamlining operations.
Alone by moving out of shifting boxes around, and be able to move those resources onto the cloud any operational gains is already being explored. Granted, the untapped market could that by being a CC product, it is no longer easy for pirates to crack and resell the software - this might in the long run create a market expansion by converting non-payers to payers.

However, the products to watch out for in the Adobe stable is around marketing and advertising tools...

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 20, 2014 at 12:26:25 am

Mads,

I didn't seriously think Apple would want to buy Adobe, merely that they certainly could if they saw some value, and a ~$60 share price wouldn't be an impediment as I believe had been suggested. And they are in a more related business than Wal Mart.

And no, they won't be moving software around in boxes again anytime soon, either. The App Store seems to be working just fine. And the software continues to work with a one time payment, and you always have access to your files without indentured servitude. That is a model I can live with, and it is also one I have chosen. Adobe? CS6 is my last unless they come around, thanks.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke
on May 20, 2014 at 6:07:50 am

Hey Jim,

[Jim Wiseman] " And they are in a more related business than Wal Mart."
I think that you'll find that Wal-Mart is a big competitor to Apple. There was a time when Disney would sell 1.2 million copies of a new film through the shelves of Wal-Mart. Apple changed that...

[Jim Wiseman] "The App Store seems to be working just fine. And the software continues to work with a one time payment, and you always have access to your files without indentured servitude."
I'm not sure I would agree with any of your comments about the app store. Apple for many years was known to force 3rd party programmers to rewrite a lot of code every time a new OS would surface - don't know whether that has changed.
Also, not sure that Apple or their app producers gives you any kind of guarantee for keeping your files? Neither do I think that there any kind of upgrade path for old and out-of-date apps to match your new hardware, whether that being an iPod, iPhone or iPad.
More to the point, will you in the model you describe, be able to select a new hardware supplier and transfer your app? I think not :-)

When that is all said and done: Adobe CS6 is not a bad package which won't go out of date in the near future. If anything, I suspect that Adobe in certain markets have to keep making maintenance releases for a period of years before they can EOL it.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 9:01:01 am

Hey Aindreas,

I wasn't locked-out and continued to work fine - so no Gremlins, or jokers here.

Maybe you need to change the Harp for a Violin ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 1:08:20 pm

heavily belongs to what you´re working on.
Local apps may have no difficulties with that.
But if you work with InDesign or others and want to publish online/for devices via cloud - No chance!
Want to use your clouds data on the go? - No chance!
Espec. very funny if you have deadlines.
The fact, you haven´t any trouble doesn´t mean all the others are lucky too.
A harp is a harp.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 6:00:10 pm

Rainer,

When is the last time you used Indesign CC. And were you hurt by the Adobe CC downtime? Or is this just another chance to give the whole orchestra an outing more? ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 6:42:39 pm
Last Edited By Rainer Schubert on May 17, 2014 at 6:44:44 pm

I never used nor will ever use InDesign CC (nearby totally back on QuarkXPress now) - but I´m very interested in the rumors about.
As I´m more a print than Video Designer I know a lot of users who are affected by this outage.
With a disconnected server you are not able to create online publications via that server. That simple.
Also the Adobe Fonts are affected (Web-Publications etc.).
Also your data/files are affected (if stored in this so called cloud) & you want to use it from a mobile or second utility.
I don´t have to sit on a cloud, to know, that this can´t work.
As written by many others above take a look at the Adobe Facebook Site...
The fact, that you were not affected doesn´t mean no one was...
As most here are Video-Tool-Users and the data is normally stored local - true, in most (of this!) cases you have no trouble.
(But you know, you are also paying for Flash, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Illustrator, Muse, Photoshop and so on, which all can be affected totally or in parts of their functionality)


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 8:52:54 pm

That is what it is:
[Rainer Schubert] "I never used nor will ever use InDesign CC (nearby totally back on QuarkXPress now) - but I´m very interested in the rumors about."

Rumours, nothing else.

And before you get you knickers in a twist and start singing soprano along side that violin, I am not disputing that there was a server problem at Adobe. However, I am questioning the sanity of the scaremongering and third party rumour muck spreading, going on by people who have already publicly in this forum said that they will not use Adobe CC?

Please, Please let the rest of us enjoy all the positives of Adobe CC :-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Rainer Schubert
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 9:20:43 pm

Adobe was a part of my daily work for a long time.
I loved to use the tools for a very long time.
It cost me enormous efforts and also money to change workflows and licenses.
And the transition isn´t completed - still have to use CS sometimes.
I think, the negative comments on this forum must not have any influence on your happiness with your cloud membership, or?
Simply don´t read them - be happy.
(Elsewise I would beg: Please be happy on your cloud, but please, please let us hate this cloud...)
This isn´t the Glorious Cloud Forum - it´s the Cloud Debate Forum, or?


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: Adobe are a joke - I wasn't locked out, is that discrimination?
on May 17, 2014 at 9:42:23 pm

[Rainer Schubert] "(Elsewise I would beg: Please be happy on your cloud, but please, please let us hate this cloud...)
This isn´t the Glorious Cloud Forum - it´s the Cloud Debate Forum, or?"


Made me smile. Thank you, I shall :-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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