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Network Server Editing

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Kelly Longtine
Network Server Editing
on Jan 8, 2019 at 6:37:57 pm

Hello - My companies IT dept. wants to try and set our AV department up on CISCO Hyperflex. It's a SSD Server with unlimited expandability (space). That is all I really know about it. The goal is to use this server for storage as well as a SAN to share with 3 to 4 editors. We are on MAC's using Adobe Premiere. Our building will have a fibre connection from the server and then connect to Cat 6e then use a 10g to Thunderbolt 2 or 3. It's very difficult to talk to IT in terms of how Premiere or any NLE works with files and how we need to access them. Until we get in to the new office they did a test over the existing network connection (Cat 5) and as I suspected that was a huge laggy fail. That connection also has the corporate net on it so I did not expect it to work. But my question is when we do get to the new building (and before) what can I ask our IT folks about in terms of optimizing this for editing? Am I wrong to look at is as external hard drive where we will store, access and share projects, footage and all other elements. I assume it has some sort of RAID feature - so redundancy should not be a concern. It will be in a server room with filtered power. Any insight would be appreciated - Thanks!


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Bob Zelin
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 9, 2019 at 12:10:06 am

OH OH OH ! It's my first rant of 2019 ! Kelly, I am so happy. You have started off my year with a positive note (even though I have been lucky enough to be busy so far this year - it's a miracle !) -

Hi Kelly -
guess what ? You IT department is a bunch of idiots that have never built a video shared storage system in their lives, and will fail miserably with this project. There are COUNTLESS professional video shared storage products on the market. If they would have put ANY effort out to go to any countless number of trade shows that feature video products, they would have discovered this - BUT NOOOOO ! - they know Microsoft Windows Server 2016 - and that's all they need to know for the rest of their lives - so the hell with everything else that ACTUALLY WORKS - who wants to learn a new product, when they can put together their "killer system" that is "killer expensive" that will of course, never work - but hey - it's Windows Server 2016 - so WHO CARES !

You only have 3 - 4 editors. What you are describing for your needs are WAY too complicated.
All you need is a standard video shared storage product. There are countless products that can do this job, and you have not stated if you are Mac or PC, or exactly how much storage that you need.
You can get a wonderful system from Lumaforge. You can get a wonderful system from Facilis, EditShare, Studio Network Solutions, Promax, GB Labs, Dynamic Drive Pool, AVID Nexis, Apace Systems, Archion, and countless others that ACTUALLY KNOW what they are doing with Adobe Premiere, the Adobe CC suite and VIDEO applications.
BUT NOOOOO ! Your idiot IT department knows better. I deal with morons like this EVERY DAY, and I want to just - well, I don't want to go to jail, but they need to be eliminated from the equation of your application.

Modern video shared storage systems are tiny, run silently, don't need to be in your server room, don't need any fiber connections, and can be maintained by you - not the idiots in your IT department. If they proceed with the Cisco Hyperflex, this is what will happen. Your company will spend a lot of money, they will fail, you will not have working shared storage, and it will not look good for you.

If you were to do nothing other than to get a QNAP TVS-872XT for $1900, load that up with eight SATA drives (you did not say how much storage that you want) - plug that into a Netgear XS708T 8 port 10G switch ($700 bucks), and run each computer via a 10G connection (iMac Pro has built in 10G port, so does new Mac Mini - thunderbolt 2 computers cost $499 and thunderbolt 3 computers cost $175 per thunderbolt to 10G adaptors) - then you have a working system, that is EASY TO USE, silent, runs on cheap Cat 6 cable, and can live on top of your desk, with no interference from your IT department. Need power protection ? A $145 Cyberpower UPS will work perfectly for this cheap QNAP, and you are done. Don't like QNAP - then buy a Lumaforge Jellyfish which is GREAT. Don't like Lumaforge - then buy ANY OTHER product that I mentioned above. Or contact a pro video dealer in your area that deals with professional video products. Or call Adobe. Or do a Google search. BUT DO NOT RELY ON THE MORONS in your IT department, because THEY WILL FAIL, and it will make you look bad.

For the record - Cat 5 is too slow to run 10G speeds. Cat 5 (actually Cata 5e) will work for 1G connections up to 125 MB/sec. For bandwidth greater than this (10G, which goes up to 1250 MB/sec) you can use Cat 6 cable for up to 55 meters (180 feet) and beyond that distance you use Cat 6A cable (not Cat 6e cable) for up to 100 meters.

I do this every day, and the older I get, the sicker I am becoming of these imbeciles that simply refuse to do some simple research on the subject of professional video shared storage.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Blaise Douros
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 9, 2019 at 12:56:36 am

Kelly,
The solution is very simple--you need to tell your IT team that it's not their fault but they aren't qualified to set it up (they aren't), this is an extremely specialized area (it is), and that you're going to hire Bob (like I did).

I've got three edit seats working off an 8-drive QNAP system that Bob specced out and set up for us, and barring one or two extremely minor hiccups (which Bob resolved immediately), it's been flawless. The whole system and all components, setup included, came in well under $10K. I think it was closer to $7K or $8K.

It will be easy, and it will work great. The hardest part will be figuring out your backup system (not hard at all, just get a second QNAP system and have it run regular backups).


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 9, 2019 at 9:02:37 am

Hi Kelly,

I will be very happy to discuss different options with you: ronny@lumaforge.com

- Ronny


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Bob Zelin
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 9, 2019 at 1:12:48 pm

Hi Kelly -
the MOST important thing is that you make sure that your IT department is not involved. I know the politics that you have to deal with. I know it exactly, because I googled your name, and I am the engineering contractor for many divisions of your company. And their IT guys all HATE my guts. I was actually "thrown out" of there a few years ago, and when they screwed things up, I was asked to come back in.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Kelly Longtine
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 10, 2019 at 2:55:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback - That is actually what I felt the response would be. I know they mean well but like you said - they really don't understand how video works when it comes to production vs. streaming. If anything this will help our plight to get a real video solution like the ones you mentioned or hire someone/company to install.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 11, 2019 at 1:02:00 am

I will contact you.
Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Kelly Longtine
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 11, 2019 at 2:00:05 pm

I no longer work for the company that you had worked with. The IT department at my current position is top notch - still not up to speed on video applications in "our" realm but they are working with us. They agreed to allow us to get a more straight line solution such as QNAP or SNS. They do have a vendor that sells them. Any thoughts on the software that SNS uses for media organization "ShareBrowser" - I see it comes free with any of their systems but wondering if that at all could be a deciding factor. The IT folks still want to explore using HyperFlex as an archive/back up and I think that will be great for that as long as it does not interfere in any way.

Thanks .


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Bob Zelin
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 11, 2019 at 10:11:06 pm

I have the same opinion, as when I did my original rant at the top of this thread.
YOU should be the one directly involved with any of these solutions. Not your IT department.
I know you have a lot of experience with video equipment, and have been doing this for a long time.
If you get the excellent Studio Network Solutions EVO system, SNS will provide YOU with support, and they will show YOU how to use Share Browser. QNAP does not offer an asset management software program, but you can easily use Axle Video or Cat DV for this.

The MOST important thing is that you do not let your IT department touch this equipment. Studio Network Solutions, LumaForge or anyone else is not interested in the opinions of your IT department. They make perfectly working equipment for this application - which should be a dedicated isolated 10G network, that has nothing to do with your network in your office that your IT team manages. All of these companies are great - all of these companies will help you. Let them do their job. All of this stuff is pretty easy to understand. The only time you will fail is if you let "them" get involved with this equipment - because they will want to do it "their way" - not the correct way.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Scott Thomas
Re: Network Server Editing
on Jan 12, 2019 at 3:50:49 am

I started looking up what the Cisco product is. I'm still not exactly sure what its intended use or customer base is, but I did note this... "the pricing for a three-node HyperFlex cluster starts at $59,000, including one year of 24x7x4 on-site support."

You're not charging enough Bob. ☺

In reading more about "hyperconverged Infrastructure", it seems to be more about datacenter needs. It sounds interesting, but I haven't seen examples of a production house using them in content creation.


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