FORUMS: list search recent posts

Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?

COW Forums : NAS - Network Attached Storage

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Steve Remich
Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 14, 2019 at 6:41:10 pm

I've seen a lot of positive reviews of the QNAP TVS-872XT and was wondering if anyone has any experience with/thoughts on the 6-bay model. I thought given our setup (explained below), the faster, clock speed of the quad core and fewer drives could be a cost effective solution.

We're a small company and, at present, we'll only have two machines (a 2015 iMac and a 2017 iMac) connected to the box. We've been using a proxy workflow for editing and at most we would need 1-2 machines simultaneously editing or one machine editing and one finishing/color grading. We're using a combination of cameras with 4K and HD resolutions with the heaviest codec being Canon RawLite files from a C200, which are pretty heavy at 1gbps. We may add more editors in the future, but realistically, we'd add no more than two more people to edit with proxies and in general I'm not looking for anything more powerful than that setup.

Since this seems like a relatively light load (except for the online finishing of raw files), I thought we may be able to purchase the 6-bay version, instead of the 8-bay version, assuming its also a quality product. My plan is to fill it with 8TB Ironwolf drives, set in RAID 0, and back up to external drives should a drive fail.

Given this setup, my questions are:
1.) Is the TVS-672XT a solid choice?
2.) Are real-world speeds of the 672XT comparable to the 872XT with just a few machines connected?
3.) Should I upgrade the stock, 8GB RAM?
4.) Is it possible to connect one computer via Thunderbolt 3 (through a Thunderbolt 3 -> Thunderbolt 2 adapter) and one via 10Gbe? Or do they both need to go through 10GBe to access data simultaneously?
5.) Would this setup be sufficient for two computers to simultaneously access Canon Raw Lite files (the heaviest potential load I can think of), or is that asking too much?
6.)Is there anything I'm not thinking of?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Please don't tear my head off that I'm trying to find a cost effective solution. I'm not afraid to spend money, but I don't have an Amex black card and don't want to purchase more than is necessary for our relatively small studio.

-Steve


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 14, 2019 at 10:41:52 pm

replies below -

1.) Is the TVS-672XT a solid choice?

REPLY - yes - but the TVS-872XT is a better choice. Why ? Because it has more drives, more spinning platters. And stop it with the RAID 0. You are out of your mind, even if you do have a backup.
I always do a RAID 6, but AT LEAST do a RAID 5 so you don't screw yourself. Let me assure you - drives fail.

2.) Are real-world speeds of the 672XT comparable to the 872XT with just a few machines connected?

REPLY - nope. With one user, yes, but with 2 users (especially with multi clip) - you need eight spinning platters. The limitation is not the QNAP or Synology or any other brand - it's the Seagate or WD 7200 RPM drives. Use 8 drives.

3.) Should I upgrade the stock, 8GB RAM?
REPLY - yes, you should have 16 Gig of RAM. Can you get away with 8 Gig for 2 users ? Yes.
I have done multiple TVS-873e systems with 8 Gig of RAM, and people get away with it (but there are 8 drives in that system).


4.) Is it possible to connect one computer via Thunderbolt 3 (through a Thunderbolt 3 -> Thunderbolt 2 adapter) and one via 10Gbe? Or do they both need to go through 10GBe to access data simultaneously?

REPLY - you will be very disappointed with real world performance with Thunderbolt 3.
Get a cheap QNAP QSW-1208-8C switch for $589, and plug this into your 10G port. And if you are really broke, get a single port QXG-10G1T and put it into one of the slots in the TVS-872XT, and now you have 2 10G ports. You will have to setup static IP addresses on different subnets to make this work.
For the T3 computer, you can use a QNAP QNA-T310G1T for $189. For the T2 computer, you can use the Sonnet Solo 10G T2. This is $199. You will max out at 400 MB/sec with the Solo 10G T2.
The more expensive ($475) Sonnet Twin 10G will do 800 MB/sec (and the QNAP QNA-T310G1T will also do 800 MB/sec). I don't know why the Solo 10G T2 is "slow" - but it will still work for your application. The Sonnet Solo 10G T3 is very fast, and it too is $199 or less - and NO, you cannot put a T2 to T3 adaptor on the Solo 10G T3 to get it to work on the T2 computer.
And your Mac's must be running 10.13.6 or greater for these adaptors to work (exception - the
Sonnet Twin 10G can use any old Mac operating system). .


5.) Would this setup be sufficient for two computers to simultaneously access Canon Raw Lite files (the heaviest potential load I can think of), or is that asking too much?

REPLY - I don't know exactly what codec this is. All the normal ProRes, XAVC, .r3d will work fine.
If it's MP4 format (like GoPro and DJI Drone) you will suffer, as this media should be transcoded to a pro codec for playback.


6.)Is there anything I'm not thinking of?
REPLY - yea - spending $1800 for a shared storage system (the TVS-872XT) does not require an Amex Black Card. Your investing in your business, and you are busy enough to need something for more than just yourself. Buy the right equipment that you know will work.

the TVS-672XT is $1466, and the TVS-872XT is $1799. If that financial difference is going to break you - then you should not be starting your own business, as one months rent will greatly surpass
this expense. $333 does not require an Amex Black card.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Steve Remich
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 1:50:18 pm

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Just a few followups:

1.) Good to know. Thanks. I thought this might be the case, but wasn't sure.

2.) My thinking on choosing RAID 0 paired with a consistent, external backup was partially based upon this article (https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-raid-6-stops-working-in-2019/), which argues that RAIDs 5 and 6 provide a false sense of protection as drive size increases since the chance you'll actually be able to rebuild a RAID after a drive failure without encountering a read error that stops the rebuild becomes less.

Is that article contrary to your experience? Are you or your clients successfully rebuilding RAID 5/6 setups with large (~6+ TB) disks after a disk failure without encountering read errors? I genuinely want to know as the article was written a long time ago. The prudent solution is of course to do both (RAID 5/6 with consistent on-site and off-site backups), but I was just curious about your experience.

3.) Good to know. Is 16GB enough then? Should we get more than that?

4.) You don't think Thunderbolt 3 would be fast enough to edit HD proxies? Our planned setup is for one computer to access proxies to edit (connected via Thunderbolt 3) and the second (connected via 10Gbe) to color grade and export. I figure we can always add a 10Gbe switch later, if both machines need the speed.

My main question is: Can you access data via a Thunderbolt/USB connection and 10gbe simultaneously, or does everything has to go through one of the network connections? This will be our first NAS setup and I just don't know.



6.) Alas, if it were only $333, or if we didn't have other, major purchases to make, it wouldn't be an issue. However I'm doing my best to get 30-40TB of reliable storage that's fast enough for two people to edit from for $3k all-in, which, on the surface at least, doesn't seem like asking for the moon.

Again, thanks for taking the time and sharing your knowledge.

-Steve


Return to posts index


Bob Zelin
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 5:32:43 pm

2) RAID 5 and RAID 6 is not a false sense of protection. Who is the author of that article anyway ?
Every hardware RAID company (and software RAID company) endorses RAID 5 and RAID 6, and this has been the case for a long time (and today there is RIAD 50 and RAID 60 - in the Stone Age there was RAID 1 and RAID 3). RAID is not backup - if you get severe data corruption, which is rare, you will not be able to see your media. I have never seen this on a QNAP. They give you a utility called "Check File System" which is like Alsoft Disk Warrior in case of protection. But when a drive fails, you have RAID 5 or RAID 6 protection from losing all your data. RAID 0 is just suicide, because let me assure you - you WILL lose a drive one day, and at RAID 0, you will lose all your data.

3) 16 Gig is more than enough for 2 users. Actually 8 gig is enough, but it's nice to have 16 because you will have more users soon.

4) what can I say - try it. See what happens. The extra 10G card is only $89
Yes, you can do a Thunderbolt 3 and a 10G connection at the same time.

6) oh, I hope other manufacturers read this thread. You say "30 - 40 TB of shared storage for $3000 is not asking for the moon". Oh ho ho - ha ha ha. I hope everyone charging
$25,000 and above for this much storage is reading your thread here !!! It is asking for the moon (you must be a kid) - but thanks to QNAP and Synology - you can do it.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Steve Remich
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 6:03:12 pm

Definitely not a kid, but I'll just let that go and move on. And hopefully they are reading it, because 8TB drives are currently selling for under $200 on amazon. What can I say, progress marches on and cheers to QNAP and Synology...

Thanks for your responses and input. The one last question I have is if you have any thoughts on the QNAP TS-873 box (filled with 8TB iron wolf drives in RAID 6 😉, upgraded to 16GB of RAM and fitted with a 10Gbe aquantia card). Decent box? P.O.S.? No opinion/haven't used it?

It has a quad-core AMD processor, which obviously isn't as good as the 6-core Intel processor in the 872XT, but do you think it would be a bottleneck for use as a video editing server in a small studio situation? I've read other posts where you've said that QNAP NAS boxes are a minefield of good and crap and I'm not sure where this one falls on that scale. I also haven't been able to find many useful, real-world reviews.

The thought was if Thunderbolt 3 performance is going to be "disappointing", maybe it would be better to get an 8-disk box without it and put more money into 10gbe cards/adapters for every computer.

-Steve


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 15, 2019 at 11:42:17 pm

i have never installed a TS-873.
The TVS-873e with the Aquantia card will work perfectly for you as well. I feel the TVS-872XT is a much better box, but before this came out, I was intsalled the TVS-873e without issue for small systems. If you want TWO users, you can get the QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card, which will give you two 10G ports.

So this will cost less money, and do what you want.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index


Nathaniel Cooper
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 16, 2019 at 3:27:14 pm

Steve, I know a lot of video pro's have gone with QNAP/Synology because the "premium video vendors" don't have fair pricing. We changed this at ProMAX a while back.

We also launched the ProMAX MediaHub starting at $1,495.

Here is the Max vs Sustained Performance blog I mention at the end of the video.







Nathaniel @ ProMAX


Return to posts index

Rich Rubasch
Re: Any thoughts on the QNAP TVS-672XT?
on Aug 17, 2019 at 10:04:15 pm

OK, BOB...what say you? I like the ProMax approach. QNAP has been a pretty good deal for us, but support for video production is non existent. In fact QNAP is more like Apple, developing apps and capabilities that aren't really what video production houses are actually wanting.

ProMax has been around forever it seems and Nate did a nice job hitting this squarely on the head.

I ask because I will be working for a new company soon and they will be looking at shared storage options and I want to be prepared! Anyone else using current Promax products and love them?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]