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Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)

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Elliott Dunwody
Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 28, 2011 at 10:22:08 pm

Is there a way yo lock your in and out on a clip in the events. Every time my mouse moves over it the in and out gets moved. Driving me crazy.

Bright Blue Sky Productions
4811 Rivoli Dr
Macon, GA 31210

http://www.brightbluesky.com


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Tony Silanskas
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 28, 2011 at 10:31:10 pm

If you're talking about having your "range" marks stay with the clip after you clip off of it then no, and I have not found a workaround for this. I agree that this is annoying as I frequently want to go back to certain clips and can't remember where I last left off.

As long as you don't click off the clip the range markers (in and out points) won't move. You can use the "Insert" and "Overwrite" keyboard shortcuts while scrubbing through a clip with "J K and L" which will put the part of the clip you selected in the timeline but not deselect the clip in the Event browser.

tony

http://www.HungryCliff.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 28, 2011 at 10:39:45 pm

For the time being you could use markers.
You could keyword the range which would make it a "Collection" and then delete it when you're done. That might get messy if you forget to delete them though.



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Eric Mellor
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 28, 2011 at 11:34:31 pm

I was having this same problem. Once you have selected your "range" hit "F" and it marks it as a "Favorite" and denotes the in/out range by a green bar at the top.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:36:33 am

[Eric Mellor] "I was having this same problem. Once you have selected your "range" hit "F" and it marks it as a "Favorite" and denotes the in/out range by a green bar at the top."

... and then you can change All Clips to Favorites in the Upper Left and you have your clip with the favorites range.

and you can go through a bunch of clips and mark in and out points (ranges) and Favorite them. You can even have several Favorited ranges in a single clip.

Sort of instant temp subclipping.

Done with the range. Select the clip and hit U or hit the clear star on the left side of the toolbar.



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Elliott Dunwody
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:39:51 am

Thank you sir.

Bright Blue Sky Productions
4811 Rivoli Dr
Macon, GA 31210

http://www.brightbluesky.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 5:13:56 am

Further refining the technique in which in and out points (range) is EASILY remembered.
Mark In and Out point (range).
Press F to make range a Favorite (remembers range).
Note Green bar at top of clip where range was.
Go do whatever
Go back to clip and click on Green bar
Voilà. Range appears again.
Press U to remove Favorited range as desired.

So simply click F on range and it will be easily remembered.

FCPX Range (in and out points) remembered





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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 8:04:48 am

Great tip, thanks Craig - I was sceptical that this would be a workable workaround for losing I/O points but the way you're now recommending doing it it's actually a very powerful way of working. It's like keeping a running log of all your Browser edit activity. (The only issue is I can see is the Favourites folder getting unwieldy pretty quickly in the course of a day's work).

I'd still like the I/O points to stick though as well, but then I'm greedy ;-)

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:02:21 pm

You don't need to search for Favorites to do this. This feature is usable in the Collection it sits in. Of course if you do a Favorite search for other reasons all these marked clips will show up there as well and it'll be pretty crowded.

Yes, I'd still like to have the ranges stick until changed too. At least the workaround is simple. Just hit F and marking and click on the green bar to get the range back when needed. Hit U to get rid of it.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:09:39 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Just hit F and marking and click on the green bar to get the range back when needed"

The issue for me is that my source clips are typically 90 minutes long or more so finding a one second long green bar by eye can be a tricky business ;-) (I cut movie trailers which explains the typically long source clip/tiny selection ratio.)

But I am finding this very useful, thanks.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:10:30 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "The issue for me is that my source clips are typically 90 minutes long or more so finding a one second long green bar by eye can be a tricky business"

In Filmstrip mode, change the thumbnail duration to some number like 1m or even smaller (down to 1/2s).
What I'm wishing is a key command to do this.

You can grab that tiny little Thumbnail frequency bar or use Command + or - depending on how you want to change it but if you're going from All to 1/2s for example, that's a lot of key strokes. I'd like to jump from All to a chosen frequency on one keystroke.

Alternately one might go from List View to Filmstrip View already set to the duration you want but then that toggle should be a keystroke as well. I haven't checked yet if that can be assigned but that would be a feature request if it can't.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:21:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] "In Filmstrip mode, change the thumbnail duration to some number like 1m or even smaller (down to 1/2s).
What I'm wishing is a key command to do this."


Because this is how I had it in FCP7, I've already mapped the zoom function onto F1 (zoom extents), F2 (zoom in) and F3 (zoom out) which means it's easy to scale the Brwoser clip with a single key rather than using the slider or Cmd-/= which of course gives the same result.

So zooming in and out is easy for me, finding those little green bars is harder - which is why I'm using the Favourites tab to find them in this case. I will also look at breaking up my longer clips into keyword selections (Scenes/sequences) to make them shorter to search. Skimming through very long clips is a chore.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Brad Baker
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 3:35:50 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[Simon Ubsdell] "The issue for me is that my source clips are typically 90 minutes long or more so finding a one second long green bar by eye can be a tricky business"

In Filmstrip mode, change the thumbnail duration to some number like 1m or even smaller (down to 1/2s).
What I'm wishing is a key command to do this."


You can also use ; and ' to jump from favorite to favorite in the filmstrip view. Then there's no need to zoom way in on your giant clip to find your in's/outs.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 3:59:40 pm

[Brad Baker] "You can also use ; and ' to jump from favorite to favorite in the filmstrip view."

Exactly what I need, thanks. Years of experience have taught me that breaking my material down with keywords would both not be a good use of time in my case, it would also mean that it takes more time to access the material and review the available options. Workflows that require a progressive refining and selection of the material would clearly benefit, but it is essential for me to be able to access everything instantly all the time rather than have any search process standing in the way of that access, however sophisticated and fast it might be. Your tip solves all that for me perfectly. It's good to know that non-typical workflows like mine can still be well accommodated by FCPX.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Matt Callac
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:32:11 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "The issue for me is that my source clips are typically 90 minutes long or more so finding a one second long green bar by eye can be a tricky business ;-"

Simon,
that's the whole point of keywords. You skim through your giant clip looking for what you want to use...and you do keyword ranges to pull selects/log the giant clip. I'd guess that's why key ranges don't stick. They didn't expect you to keyword giant segments unless they were going to be used as giant segments.

-mattyc


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Jean-François Robichaud
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:49:52 pm

Very nice. That's a relief. Not being able to save my in/out points was a major problem for me.

Now once the range has been made a favorite, moving the handles won't update the favorite range. If I widen the range and hit F it works, but if I narrow it, it won't. F is additive, U is subtractive. To remove part of a favorite range, you can select the part you do not want then hit U. Note that if you substract (U) an area from the middle of the favorite range, you end up with 2 favorites. Yes, there can be multiple favorite ranges in a single clip, which is very useful for long clips! Favorite ranges cannot overlap though: If you make a new favorite that overlaps 2 separate favorites, they all get merged into one.

Alternatively, after selecting the favorite, you can hit U to remove it entirely, move the handles and hit F again to save your new range. You can also mark ranges as rejected by hitting delete.

Take a look at clip that has multiple favorites in List View. Twirl down the view by tapping the triangle: all favorite and rejected ranges are listed. At the top of the Event Browser, you can select to hide rejected clips, show only favorites, etc. When showing only favorites, multiple favorite ranges within the same clip appear as different clips.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:16:34 pm

[Jean-François Robichaud] "Yes, there can be multiple favorite ranges in a single clip, which is very useful for long clips! "

Yes, in fact if you ever want to have multiple save in and outs rather than just the last one you used, this now makes it possible. I've wanted to do this as well.

[Jean-François Robichaud] "You can also mark ranges as rejected by hitting delete."

And thus you can keep track of what you've done as well.

As your descriptions show, there's really powerful project organization while editing. Favorite range can be Selects, Reject range after used, Unrated is your other stuff. Another thing I like about all this is that it's single key strokes without modifier keys. Doing this with one finger keeps the other hand free.

Once one gets that FCPX is a metadata based database it can extend one's thinking about how to handle project organization.



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Eddie Torre
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 28, 2011 at 11:35:01 pm

I thought turning off the skimmer might help, but it didn't.



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Elliott Dunwody
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:33:03 am

Well, thank goodness I'm not the only one having the issue. To be honest, I'm not sure why I'm even trying. I'm still one of them old worn out tape guys using P2 Bcam footage to work trying to learn this thing.
Maybe I'm to old to learn new tricks.
Just seems that the work arounds take more time than why doesn't it do things that it should just do.
Thanks to all, I'm sure the is the only the beginning to many more questions. Wouldn't know that I've been editing for more than 15 years. But darn, in and outs of a clip shouldn't be this hard.

Bright Blue Sky Productions
4811 Rivoli Dr
Macon, GA 31210

http://www.brightbluesky.com


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Eddie Torre
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:28:59 am

You could change the appearance of your clips in the browser by choosing "List View".

From there you could right click which columns you'd like to see. Might be better for the time being



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Jonathan White
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jun 30, 2011 at 12:21:18 pm

That favourites tip is wonderful, great for breaking down my interviews on the fly.... only problem is I'd like a quick way to rename them on the fly too.... i.e. change favourite to something I choose or add a note... is the only way just to double click in the column every time?
Thanks,
Johnny

Seanchas Productions, Galway, Ireland


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David Burch
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 4, 2011 at 9:04:57 am

What about simply adding a keyword "edits" to all your ranges? That will group them all into a collection that you can browse later.


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David Burch
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 4, 2011 at 9:10:11 am

Just tested it. You don't need to use favorites. Simply select the range you want, hit cmd+K, and type a keyword like "edits". A new collection will show up with only the range you just added the keyword to, not the entire clip. Hope that helps.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 4, 2011 at 3:33:47 pm

That would work but then you'd either have to add the keyword using the shortcut for it. That would be "Control whatever" vs just hitting F. I'm not sure of the advantage although it is another way.



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David Burch
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 4, 2011 at 7:58:56 pm

The advantage of using keywords over favorites is that you can only have a given range favorited once, while you can apply as many keywords to it as you want.

For example, let's say you had a 2 minute segment of an interview that you wanted to save for later, but you also had a couple of sound bytes within that 2 minutes you wanted to use for a promotional piece (or another work entirely). You could favorite the 2 minute range, but then you wouldn't be able to favorite the smaller sound bytes within it because they are already part of the "favorite" range.

Keywords don't have this limitation. You can keyword the 2 minute range, and then go in and add the same keyword if you want to the sound bytes (say, "edits"). Not only that, you can apply multiple keywords to the same range. So, besides tagging your sound bytes as simply "edits", you could also call them "bytes", and you would have two keyword "bins" show up, one with all your "edits" segments and the other with "bytes". You can even apply boolean operators to keywords in keyword collection.

What you are trying to accomplish is exactly what keywords are designed to do. The favorite tool, on the other hand, is a bit more of a blunt instrument. It's designed as nothing more than a simple rating system, to balance out the "rejected" button.

If you like the fact that favorites can be applied simply by hitting "f", simply assign commonly-used keywords to hotkeys. The first 9 use are automatically assigned to ctrl+1-9, and you can easily modify what these keystrokes do. You can even have a keystroke apply multiple keywords if you wish.

I hope that helps. It took me a second to wrap my head around the new paradigm, but after using it I can say that it's really quite powerful. Keywords are one of the features Apple did right with FCPX, IMO (and if you look at my history right of posts right after it released you'll see that I'm no fanboy...I was just as furious as everyone else about what they did and still am about some things).


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Craig Seeman
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 5, 2011 at 3:50:11 am

[David Burch] "For example, let's say you had a 2 minute segment of an interview that you wanted to save for later, but you also had a couple of sound bytes within that 2 minutes you wanted to use for a promotional piece (or another work entirely). You could favorite the 2 minute range, but then you wouldn't be able to favorite the smaller sound bytes within it because they are already part of the "favorite" range."


Yes but at that point you're beyond simple in and out points. In FCP7 you can mark in and outs in different clips and they are all retained. Once you want overlapping in an out points on the same media, you're into subclass in FCPX and Keywords in FCPX.

In many cases people aren't looking to make subclips, they simply want to retain in and out points they mark for a clip. There's no reason to get into keywording for that. A Favorite is just one more keystroke than the simple I/O method in FCP7.



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David Burch
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 5, 2011 at 9:14:25 am

You make it sound as if keywording were altogether more complicated than favorites to implement. They're really not. Setting a favorite is a matter of hitting "f"; setting a keyword is as simple as hitting ctrl+1 (or any number through 9, depending on which it's store in). You may not need to overlap segments, but keywords really are much better designed for saving in and out points than favorites are. Just my 2 cents.


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Brendan Gibbons
Re: Locking in and outs in Bin (or what ever they call it now)
on Jul 5, 2011 at 9:30:19 am

I have also decided on key-wording for retaining several in and out points on a clip.

Specifically for the reason mentioned earlier, quite often for different versions of an edit you will want to have different length versions of a talking head. So quite often the in / out points will overlap so using favourites will not work in this case.

Either by using control+1-9 for preset keywords, or hitting command+K and type in the first sentence the person says.

Then to keep the events browser tidy I create a folder (eg interviews) and drag all the keyworded items in there.

I'm sure everyone will find a way that works for them best.

Cheers,

Brendan


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