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Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29

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Suzi P.
Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 12:39:01 pm

Hi Everyone,

My crew filmed an interview that will be combined with broll in 24fps and I need to DELIVER for broadcast in 29.97.

Wondering what the best workflow is BEFORE I dive in. Drop everything onto a 29.97 timeline and edit away OR edit in 24 and then export using Compressor? to get to 29.97 ... OR?

Many thanks for chiming in! - Suzi


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Doug Metz
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:13:33 pm

I don't think you'll see much of a difference one way or the other.

From a completely selfish angle, I regularly need to incorporate client-supplied video files into new content.

Frequently, this involves re-using 29.97 files in a 24p timeline. If the 29.97 file(s) was originally shot 24p (which you can see if you step through the file by frame), I will remove the pulldown and go back to the original framerate. This works best if the content was edited at the original 24p source rate, and converted to 29.97 as the final step. The reason it works better this way is that the cadence is consistent throughout the piece (even through transitions) and makes conversion to a nice, clean 24p file quick and painless.



Doug Metz

Anode


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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:32:27 pm

Thanks, Doug for your thoughts. Where's that pull down option in FCPX?


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Doug Metz
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:49:46 pm

[Suzi P.] "Thanks, Doug for your thoughts. Where's that pull down option in FCPX?"

You'd simply finish your edit in 24p, then export a master file and either 1) bring that back in and drop into a 29.97 timeline - to prevent FCPX changing the frame rate of your timeline, place a gap clip before adding the master, and set the correct frame rate, then add your master and delete the gap... Or 2) you could take that master file and run it through a 29.97 preset in Compressor. I'd say go with option 2 if you can.

To remove pulldown after the fact, I typically use JES Deinterlacer (free, and soon to be non-functional). It has options galore for stuff like this. Unfortunately, the demise of QT7 and it's versatility means I will soon need to find alternate means.

Doug Metz

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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 5:18:32 pm

SUPER helpful. Thank you. I do have Compressor and will research proper settings.


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Tom Sefton
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:24:51 pm

Did your crew film in 29.97 or did they film in 24?

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:32:59 pm
Last Edited By Suzi P. on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:36:11 pm

Hi Tom,

We filmed in 24. Station will need 29.97.


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Tom Sefton
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 5:57:34 pm

So you need to add 5.97 frames to each second before your final export? I’d suggest trying frame interpolation with Davinci resolve

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 6:14:27 pm

Thanks, Tom. If I went this route, would I still cut in 24 and THEN send to DaVinci?

Suzi


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Doug Metz
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 8:39:50 pm

[Suzi P.] "If I went this route, would I still cut in 24 and THEN send to DaVinci?"

You would, but I'm not sure it's worth the time. Here's why... when you cut 24p material in a 29.97 timeline (very common), the NLE will add the frames to make up the difference as you go...
In a progressive project, this manifests as a duplicate frame every 5th (1p, 2p, 3p, 4p, 4p, etc).
In an interlaced project, it'll split the 4th progressive frame and make 2 new interlaced ones. So you'll get 1p, 2p, 3p, 4i, 5i, etc.

Taking your finished 24p master into a 29.97 Compressor preset will accomplish the same thing. Which method it uses is based solely on whether your preset is set as progressive or interlaced.

Doug Metz

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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 9:06:36 pm

Hi Doug,

Seeing as I don't have DaVinci, I wouldn't mind avoiding it. Riddle me this -- what's the difference between dropping the 24 fps footage onto a 29.97 timeline (letting FCPX do its thing) and editing from there ... versus doing the conversion in the export? Which would you choose? Dropping in a 29.97 or going the 24fps to compressor route? THANKS again for your thoughts!


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Doug Metz
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 12, 2018 at 9:50:59 pm

Personally, I prefer to edit native and conform later.

I need to reuse material frequently, and don't want to have to remove extra frames or dig out the source media and re-cut from scratch. Cutting natively makes this work smoothly - drives me crazy to see a beautiful pan ruined by notchy playback due to added or missing frames. With talking heads, you don't really notice.

I'll add the caveat that most of what I do doesn't go to broadcast (sometimes, but not usually). Mostly corporate, live events, internal, and web. Frame rate can be what it is in these cases.

If I have a project with multiple frame rates, I'll weigh the predominant media with the deliverable spec and find middle ground.

Doug Metz

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Bret Williams
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 13, 2018 at 7:13:22 am

Drop the final 24(23.98)p Master into a 29.97i interlaced timeline. FCPX will convert the pull down on the fly. Export and you’re done. Compressor will just introduce confusion and human error. You can check the interlacing in the viewer by setting the window to show both fields and 100% scale and stepping through. Youll see a pattern of 3 full frames and then 2 interlaced frames.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 14, 2018 at 1:31:43 pm
Last Edited By Suzi P. on Sep 14, 2018 at 1:33:51 pm

Thanks, Bret! So you're saying edit natively on a 24 AND THEN drop into a 29.97 and let FCPX do it's thing? Do you have thoughts on optical flow?


Suzi


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Bret Williams
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 14, 2018 at 1:42:49 pm

You would definitely not use optical flow. You’re just doing what has been done forever. Taking 24fps and broadcasting it at 29.97i. That’s what TV does every day. Movies and shows are shot on film or video all the time and mastered at 24. Then you add pulldown and broadcast at either 60p (720p) or 60i(1080i). If you drop 24p into a 1080i timeline it will properly interlace it.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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Eric Santiago
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 14, 2018 at 3:19:08 pm

[Bret Williams] "You would definitely not use optical flow. You’re just doing what has been done forever. Taking 24fps and broadcasting it at 29.97i. That’s what TV does every day"

Agreed!


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Suzi P.
Re: Advice: Filmed in 24 and need to export to 29
on Sep 18, 2018 at 8:19:51 pm

Thanks guys! I realize this is not a new thing but it's new to me! Thank you for your time. Off to edit a 24 master and then let FCPX do the work and drop it into a 29.9


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