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the second does not equal one second

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Marcin Lipiński
the second does not equal one second
on Jul 24, 2018 at 12:30:50 pm

I have source material from various sources, from different people, from different cameras. iMovie easily operates with clips. FCPX slows down clips recorded from one camera and synchronization is impossible. I was looking for a solution on the internet and I can not find solution. In my opinion, one second in one material should be equal to the second of the second movie. And so it is in iMovie.
(an example of a similar problem - https://forums.creativecow.net/docs/forums/post.php?forumid=344&postid=3205.....
Please, help me. What could be the reason?
ps. Sorry for my English :)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 24, 2018 at 4:53:27 pm

[Marcin Lipiński] "Please, help me. What could be the reason?"

The post you linked to is talking about green screen keying.

Your post is talking about sync.

Can you tell us what you are actually experiencing?


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Mark Suszko
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 24, 2018 at 9:03:07 pm

I'm guessing Marcin has footage shot in multiple frame rates and somehow the editing system was configured to standardize on one of them and adjust the others to compensate?


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Marcin Lipiński
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 24, 2018 at 10:03:38 pm

I was wrong to give a link. Excuse me. A similar problem is described here:
https://forums.creativecow.net/docs/forums/post.php?forumid=344&postid=3205...
But I will try to describe the problem more simply.
I have two clips. One recorded with a Sony A7s camera at 23 fps, the second recorded Sony A7RIII at 25 fps. Suppose this is a recording of a falling ball. When I put these two clips in iMovie, I do not have to do anything. If I arrange the clips so that their origin is in the same moment, they are synchronized along the entire length. The ball falls at the same moment. In other words, if I manually synchronize the clips, it's all pretty, until the end is right.
Meanwhile, the same clips placed on the timeline in the FCPX are played at different speeds. On one the ball moves faster, and on the other slower. If I wanted to synchronize these two clips, I would have to slow one down to 95.9 percent of the speed. Why is iMovie doing it right, and the more expensive and professional FCPX does it wrong? Where is the reason?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 25, 2018 at 2:49:04 am

It doesn’t work this way. I have no idea what iMovie is doing, but what Final Cut is doing is right.

One minute of 25fps video is not one minute of 23.98 video. The frames will never match. 2 seconds of 23.98 video is 48 frames, and 2 seconds of 25fps is 50 frames. And it gets even more complicated in that 23.98 video Timecode isn’t real time, so 1 minute on the tc clock of 23.98 video is actually only ~57 seconds of real time in 25fps video.

What FPS is your Project set to?


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Marcin Lipiński
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 25, 2018 at 6:55:51 am

So I understand that FCPX uses a simple frame-to-frame conversion. For sure? So... what are the different frame matching options for? Besides, not all clips work like this. For example: sound from the voice recorder + Panasonic camera (50 fps) + Sony A7RIII (24 fps) + old Sony 29.97 fps camera ... everything placed on the timeline agrees (Project for example 25 fps!) — the recording time from one device is exactly one hour from another device. Except for this one recording from Sony A7s. Besides, it seems to me that the speed of the film does not depend on fps. This can not be true. The program should match the clips mainly according to time, that is, the hour equals one hour. I understand the issues of different frames in a second, but such an advanced program should convert the frames while maintaining the recording time. This is followed by various options for matching frames. Am I wrong?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: the second does not equal one second
on Jul 25, 2018 at 4:11:07 pm

[Marcin Lipiński] "For example: sound from the voice recorder + Panasonic camera (50 fps) + Sony A7RIII (24 fps) + old Sony 29.97 fps camera ... everything placed on the timeline agrees (Project for example 25 fps!) — the recording time from one device is exactly one hour from another device. "

Sound is different because one second does equal one second. There are no frames of sound, only samples.

For video and fractional, non-drop frame rates, one hour of timecode does not equal one hour of real time. For whole frame rates (25, 50) the timecode corresponds to real time. 23.98 is a non-drop format, so the timecode does not equal real time, that is to say 01:00:00:00 of 23.98 video does not represent an actual hour of real time. In real time, "one hour" of 23.98 timecode is actually 00:57:32:14 of real time. So that "one hour" of 23.98 video is actually is nearly 3 minutes short of the one hour of 25fps video.

Said another way, an hour of 23.98 video is 86314 frames. That same amount of frames in 25fps video is 57minutes, 32 seconds, and 14 frames. Hopefully that makes more sense.

In order to get these two to sync, you would have to slow down the 23.98 video to match real time (because an hour of 23.98 video does not equal an hour of real time), or you'd have to add 02:30:00 of video (so the 23.98 clip is 01:02:30:00) to match an hour of real time. It's very confusing, I know. I have to deal with these conversions for 23.98 non-drop to 29.97 drop frame to hit commercial timings. It sucks.

Jeremy


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