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Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system

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Fred Turner
Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 3:42:39 pm

Probably discussed elsewhere too, but...

With the requirement of FCPX 10.4.1 for macOS 10.13.2 or later— compatible with a whopping THREE total releases of macOS— and the inability of FCP7 to run on High Sierra, it's no longer possible to run a system to support both programs at their most updated versions unless you dual boot.

It is mind-numbing how forced we are to abandon all good sense these days and stay at the bleeding edge if we want to be able to update a program to take advantage of new features and fixes. Completely new OS versions annually and major software packages intolerant of even the slightest backward compatibility w/ older programs we might also need to use. A forces an update to B, which makes B no longer compatible w/ C. Drives me nuts.

So my attempt to straddle the fence w/ macOS 10.12.6 to run FCPX 10.4 and FCP7 on the same system lasted for exactly one point release. Hmph. Never mind other programs that might not survive the leap to HS...

And then there's [the formerly "evil"] Microsoft, whose Office 2011 just keeps on going...it's compatible with Mac OS X 10.5.8 through to the current 10.13.4. That's NINE *major* system versions, or about FIFTY-THREE point releases, if my math is correct. FCPX 10.4.1...THREE. Seriously...3??? Just a tiny bit of consideration for people's varying software needs would be nice, Apple. 😠

Fred


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Mark Smith
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 10:25:44 pm

The media foundations of FCP7 and X are completely differerent. FCP7 was EOL 7 years ago. In the word processing/spreadsheet world not a lot changes in 7 years. Seven years ago in the motion media world there was Red, AVC 100, Sony’s 1080 format, DVC Pro, Phantom, maybe. Now we’ve got 1080, from 35mbps long GOP thru 12 bit 4:4:4, 2k, 4k, 4.6 K, 6K, 8K in a myriad of formats, containers, so yeah FCP 7 is called legacy for a reason. Its a 32 bit app, & could handle 1080 file or tape based material with some ease, large custom formats with less ease and couldn’t handle the multitude of file based formats we have with any ease. Time to move on. On rare occasions I miss 7, but only when a client calls and asks about whether something that was shot and edited a long time ago, and I have to jump thru some hoops to get it back.


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Fred Turner
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 10:58:13 pm

Thanks for listing all of the newer/better/higher stuff available since FCP7. Of course there is. Of course the foundations are different. Of course FCP7 is long-since EOL'd...I didn't say I wanted an update to it. Of course it's time to "move on".

But you're missing the point— you're talking about 7 years of advancements in video...I'm just talking about a coexistence that was possible on the latest FCPX mere _days_ ago. For those occasions when one might want to access an old FCP7 project on a system running the newest FCPX, that could be done 0.0.1 releases ago...just days prior to now! I cannot fathom that macOS 10.12.6, released just a few months ago, is such a dinosaur it's simply incapable of handling the massive jump in technology [hint: sarcasm] from FCPX 10.4.0 to 10.4.1.

And you also missed the point that, again, forcing such an incredibly narrow operating system window is inconsiderate and hurts more than just one single program like FCP7. Not everybody wants to (or can!) upgrade every piece of software they have to the latest version all the time to satisfy the frenetic pace of minimum OS requirements Apple seems to gleefully apply. It's unnecessary and aggravating. And it breaks other crap.

Instead of assuming that everyone is always fine running the veryvery latest OS all the time, Apple should consider that some of us would like to have a little greater choice in the matter. HEVC doesn't work prior to High Sierra (although why couldn't it...it's just a codec??)? Fine, don't make it available in FCPX pre-HS. ElCap or Yosemite can't handle a certain function in an update to FCPX? Fine, disable that function for those systems. But stop kicking OS releases to the curb so quickly, especially when the *entire* system version changes once a year.

Seriously. Only THREE OS point releases for 10.4.1?? Really??

FT


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Mark Smith
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 11:13:43 pm

I have an old mac mini on the shelf that is OS 10.something -something, more than a few versions back . Its my fall back scenario though I don’t have 7 installed on it, but isuppose I could install it if I needed to .

I get your point about options but realistically how long do companies have to support legacy software ? I’m still running Word from 2008 on one of my machines, but that’s just dumb luck, and I suppose once the Mac OS no longer supports 32 bit apps, that version of Word will be dead.


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Fred Turner
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 11:28:50 pm

[Mark Smith] "I get your point about options but realistically how long do companies have to support legacy software ?"

Certainly not forever...I'm not even suggesting Apple *support* FCP7 in this case. Just stop making newer releases only run on such a small number of OS releases. Hell, I even thought it was pretty danged restrictive when FCPX 10.3.4 to 10.4 cut the supported OSes down to 10.12.4 thru 10.13.2 or so, but at least it was still 2 major release versions. If Apple hadn't made the current OS— which is still maturing and still needs some debugging— the ONLY version upon which FCPX 10.4.1 could run, the FCP7 option via Sierra would still be viable. Now we have to make a choice to forego one or the other.

I know this had to happen at some time or another. But slamming the door on all but the 3 most recent builds of High Sierra is WAY too restrictive. ESPECIALLY given the overly fast pace w/ which Apple rolls out new, full OS releases (annually). Just think if they supported a mere 2 systems back (current + 2) and instead of racing to release every year, produced better-polished upgrades every *other* year. That would give you nearly 6 years of "trail time" before you had to cut off whatever old program you were trying to retain use of (FCP7 or otherwise), rather than 6 months.

FT


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Rikki Blow
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 11:22:02 pm

Totally agree with you.
I'd like to keep up with FCPX updates, but I'm currently on Sierra and I know High Sierra migration will probably break some other bits and pieces I rely on, so deeply unhappy that I'm dragged on to it just to keep up.
There is really no reason there can't be sensible backward compatibility other than capitalism itself. These forced updates are about obsolescence and wringing more money out of us, not about improving our overall experience. I wouldn't mind quite so much if these companies actually paid realistic taxes back into the system, but they are just great big hoovers, and we're the dust getting sucked up.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 14, 2018 at 11:56:57 pm

This seems to be a common theme in various forums since the latest FCPX update.

Apple have never been afraid to adopt the latest and greatest at the expense of older hardware and software. It's part of their DNA. If we use their stuff, it's part of the deal.

The alternative is to continue support and become like the bloatware that was the Windows platform - made almost unworkable by the need to pile code base upon code base in an effort to continuously support legacy apps and hardware.

No thank you.

Yes it can be annoying when one of my laptops or iMacs or Mac Pros drops of the edge into obsolescence but they usually support hardware for half a decade - that's a long time in computer years - and outside hardware, most of the reasons I see not to update the OS aren't anything to do with Apple - it's usually complaints about third party app X or end-of-life app Z no longer working - but so it goes. Bitch about it to those companies that can't keep up, not Apple.

Meanwhile I'm getting exactly what I signed up for - a modern NLE running on a modern OS and relatively modern hardware. Couldn't be happier.

Or that's my 2c worth on the whole update thing anyway.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Patrick Donegan
Re: Forced march: no way to still run both (latest) FCPs on a single system
on Apr 19, 2018 at 7:32:20 pm

yup!
that is why years ago I partitioned my iMac 2011 hard drive in half so that I could run FCP 7 on Mountain Lion
and move on to the latest and the greatest FCP X on the other partition.

It is no fun managing all the files that have to be on one partition and then the other. I also have CS6 living
along with FCP 7, and find that I don't launch into Photoshop as much as I want to to fix up some images
for FCP x.

"I feel your pain."

FCP X 10.2.3 - user since FCP 1.25
iMac mid 2011, MBA mid 2012
iPhone 4
HVX-200, Shure wireless mic
Miller Solo tripod
Advanta-Jib


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