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Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline

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Phil Davies
Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Jan 20, 2018 at 4:58:40 pm

A couple of weeks ago I noticed an intermittent colour and lighting flicker in my projects. Footage is always from the same cameras with the same settings.

This isn't a persistent flicker - it's almost as though the white balance or exposure is changing every few seconds on the cameras. I don't think it's a camera issue because it's occurring on multiple different camera angles in the same project.

I've tried deleting and reinstalling FCPX but this has had no effect

I've opened the projects on different Macs and get the same issue.

Here's some test footage. Look at the green paper on the easel to the left, or the lime on the shelf in the lower right, as that's where it's most noticeable:

https://art-tutor.wistia.com/medias/qgcstnib9n

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Phil.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Jan 21, 2018 at 4:50:59 am

Does this happen if you playback the footage in Quicktime?

What happens if you playback the footage without the titles?


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Phil Davies
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Jan 21, 2018 at 11:09:14 pm

Ok so the clips play fine in QuickTime.

If I remove the titles it does improve the flickering in that area but there is still flickering elsewhere on the timeline where there are no titles. The tiles are FCPX presets and not a third party plugin.

I need to do more tests but it seems like creating a new project and adding in the footage without any titles or other overlays works ok. As soon as I add anything above the primary timeline it triggers the issue, which remains in places even if I then remove all those overlays.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Jan 22, 2018 at 3:02:14 am

[Phil Davies] "
If I remove the titles it does improve the flickering in that area but there is still flickering elsewhere on the timeline where there are no titles. The tiles are FCPX presets and not a third party plugin. "


First think I would do is trash your cache files.

If that doesn’t work, I’d trash your preferences.


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 4:00:58 pm

Hi Phil

did you ever get a solution to this.... ?! im having the exact same problem ( i dunno if its isolated to canon c100 cameras )
but the same damn colour from light shade to dark shade. Ive done the following to try to fix all without joy :

deleted render files at library level, at event level at project level
deleted prefs
created a new library on a different drive

i cant send out this work as the editing and camera works is all fine but this " colour flicker " makes me look unprofessional :((

any help / any one PLS ?

thanks
JR

JR


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 4:55:57 pm

[Jagster rana] " cant send out this work as the editing and camera works is all fine but this " colour flicker " makes me look unprofessional :(( "

Does the flicker happen when titles are up?

Can you post an example?


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 6:35:01 pm

HI Jeremy
thanks for yr reply

according to my research its a known problem but apple are not acknowledging it ? this has also been posted on the apple forums ... v long thread

doubt titles are connected to this issue heres why...
the media is fine on the camera
fine when playing on QT
ONLY when its playing within fcpx ( using 10.4) do you see the "colour bug " even before importing it onto a timeline i can see it on the import window when transcoding.
have also deleted render files at library level, at event level at project level
deleted prefs
created a new library on a different drive and still issue persists !!

look at this clip ( not mine) but someone with same issue

https://art-tutor.wistia.com/medias/qgcstnib9n

if you look at the plate with the lemons and limes you see the colour go from light to dark

ive also read the issue affects reds the mosts and this is true for me...

so let me know if you have any ideas pls

thanks

JR


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 7:27:59 pm

In that video, it looks like text overlays are effecting it, so it's hard to tell.

What happens if you optimize a clip. Does it still show the symptoms?


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 8:16:05 pm

in a nutshell ... yes


the issue is happening ONLY when you transcode with fcpx... the clock is ticking for me so im thinking if i transcode with fcp 7 ( lucky i still have on another machine ) then import back in fcpx shld be ok.. of course im assuming it will not want to transcode the transcoded footage !!!!!

JR


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 17, 2018 at 8:40:59 pm

This is footage that you imported in to FCPX, and it transcodes it?

What if you just import the original footage without a transcode?


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 18, 2018 at 1:44:12 pm

the files in question are AVCHD.. ( mts files from canon c100)

so if u import it will transcode automatically.. correct me if im wrong ? besides it will struggle to play files if not transcoded ..no ?

JR


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 18, 2018 at 2:34:14 pm

This is just for testing purposes. Drag one of the mts files in a library and see if it plays back without flicker.


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 18, 2018 at 2:39:17 pm

ok ill try that and report back .. in the mean time as time is a factor i transcoded on my other machine which has fcp7 ( the old log and transfer ) prores 422 setting...

have now imported THAT footage into fcpx ... and It works... no colour flicker ...
conclusive proof that its fcpx transcoding process that is the issue... i also know ( have a few diff cameras ) it doesn't affect all cameras only some.. go figure .. !

... APPLE PLS SORT THIS OUT >>>>

JR


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 18, 2018 at 3:29:51 pm

Did you ever try trashing FCPX and redownloading and reimporting?


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 18, 2018 at 3:50:22 pm

No i didnt bcos i read by at least 3 other ppl with same issue that does not fix it ... so i value my life time... LOL... im not gonna put my self thru that since others have tried that and it doesnt work... :-?

JR


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Mark Kolodziej
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 19, 2018 at 7:41:57 pm

I had a similar issue. I took the original footage and used an online converter to convert the original footage from .mp4 to .mov file and whatever the error was disappeared. Hope this helps.

Seems like my file was corrupted somehow from the camera I was using. (DJI OSMO+) And converting it to a different file format tricked FCPX into fixing it.


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Joe Marler
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 20, 2018 at 10:28:13 am

This is likely a known issue with 10.4.x color space identification. The solution is manually use Inspector to flag all clips as REC 709, even if the library and clips are already REC 709. Note you must select "settings" at bottom of Inspector to get this option.

It's a transient, elusive glitch whereby light colors will intermittently flicker or fluctuate in brightness. It is very difficult to reproduce but typically requires two layers such as connected clips, titles or generators over the primary storyline. I have only seen it on my iMac Pro, not the 2017 iMac, but others have seen it on regular iMacs.

I've only seen it on 4k H264 source material. When I used 4k optimized media or 4k ProRes sources it didn't happen. However I have seen it on proxies, which are ProRes. Others have reported it on 1080p AVCHD (which uses H264). The behavior is very elusive and difficult to reproduce, and implies a possible underlying race condition or cache state issue.

This is unrelated to render files or 3rd party plugins. Reformatting the hard drive, reinstalling macOS and FCPX does not eliminate it.

It is not just a display problem but the results are encoded into an exported file (whether ProRes or H264). That is gravely serious, as it's essentially corrupting the integrity of the material. If that machine was used to transcode material for downstream consumption, it's possible a huge amount of work could be subtly "poisoned". The behavior is very hardware-like and may appear to be thermally-related (it's not), which in turn could lead to unnecessary hardware troubleshooting and machine replacement.

I've reported this to Pro Apps escalation support.


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 20, 2018 at 12:48:22 pm

Joe you are a life saver.!!! Thank you !! . im gonna try that i hope it does work for me also

thanks v v much !!

cheers

JR


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 20, 2018 at 1:20:21 pm

HI Joe

i just tried what you suggested following your instructions .. it didn't work ? ☹

heres what i did :
click on clip in browser window
inspector
change from BASIC > SETTINGS
Colour space override is default to off change to REC 709 in drop down menu
put clip on timeline

( i also note that its default to Upper for field dominance but shld be progressive so changed that too from upper to Progressive but still no joy and back again )

but it still displays the same issue ... using canon c100 AVCHD ( h.264)

is that correct or did i miss something ?

thanks again

cheers

JR


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Joe Marler
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 20, 2018 at 1:47:35 pm

[Jagster rana] "click on clip in browser window
inspector
change from BASIC > SETTINGS
Colour space override is default to off change to REC 709 in drop down menu
put clip on timeline "


If it is the same problem, this should work. If you have any render files or proxies, the corruption could be encoded to those, so it's probably safer to delete those and regenerate them. I definitely saw cases where I moved a project and media from my iMac Pro to my iMac, and it happened there until render files and proxies were regenerated.

There are cases where a file in the timeline might not inherit the change made in the browser, but you added the file after you flagged it REC 709, so that should handle it.

In my case to be absolutely certain I re-flagged all the files in both browser and timeline to REC 709. I think for multicam I opened each one in the browser and re-flagged those also, not just the parent clips. I'm not sure if that's needed but this problem was so serious and time-consuming to identify, I didn't want to take any chances.


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 21, 2018 at 1:45:09 pm

Hi Joe

Firstly, thanks v much ... i really appreciate your response. there is nothing on the internet .. SO ..

i tried what you said .. AND YES... thats the solution IT worked.. i deleted render files at project and event level.
as you said earlier this issue seems to " infect" all files in the project .. so thats logical .. delete render files and let fcpx rebuild files and setting manually to REC 709 does the trick.


1 last question :

so next time shld i import the files> pause background rendering > manually set all clips to REC 709 then restart the rendering ? is that work flow correct


Many Thanks again and Happy days ... back to enjoying life 😉

cheers Joe !

JR


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Joe Marler
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 21, 2018 at 3:21:18 pm

[Jagster rana] "so next time shld i import the files> pause background rendering > manually set all clips to REC 709 then restart the rendering ? is that work flow correct "

I'm glad the workaround was successful. I never use background rendering so I didn't think about that. But in theory the flickering problem could be injected into any rendered file, so your procedure probably makes sense. Likewise for stopping auto generation of proxies on import until all the material has been manually re-flagged REC 709.

This problem is so serious I'm actually hoping Apple will fix it very soon so we don't have to deal with workarounds. The workarounds aren't that bad, but the problem is lots of material could be infected with these infrequent, spurious brightness fluctuations which are encoded to output files. The infrequent, fluctuating nature means it's possible some material may have slipped by QC and been delivered or broadcast with these defects.


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Katy Barclay
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Sep 13, 2018 at 1:51:09 am

Using FCPX 10.4. This solved my problem, thank you!!!

This is likely a known issue with 10.4.x color space identification. The solution is manually use Inspector to flag all clips as REC 709, even if the library and clips are already REC 709. Note you must select "settings" at bottom of Inspector to get this option.


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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on May 20, 2018 at 12:47:09 pm

In the end Mark thats more or less what i ended up doing ... i still have FCP 7 on an older mac and so used that to LOG and TRANSFER ...THAT WORKED... proving that the issue is fcpx transcoding engine for come codecs... AVCHD > h.264 is def affected MP4 seems ok ( tried that 1)

Also did you see the possible solution that Joe Marler posted .. ill try that also... we should all contact Apple and report...

JR


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Sara Blom
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 23, 2018 at 3:33:37 pm

Finding these posts was a huge relief even though there doesn't seem te be a real solution for it.

I'm wondering though if anybody knows if the issue is now recognised by Apple in any way?

I'm working on a really big project and the idea of not being able to fix it is terrible (unless I spend days replacing the bits where the colour is flickering).

Thanks



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Jagster rana
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 23, 2018 at 5:26:10 pm

Hi Sara

I have also send an error report to Apple .. are they doing anything about it ? doesnt look like it at th moment !

In the mean time you seen the solution bit of a pain but thankfully fairly easy. Switch to manual Rec 709 under color space override under settings on the "i" tab ( right side of screen when clicking a clip )

cheers

JR


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Sara Blom
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 24, 2018 at 9:21:43 am

Thanks JR!

The problem is however that I can't seem to make any change in that tab. I can change things like format but
the standard-rec709 tab remains non-active.

Could this be because it is a multicam clip? Do you know if there is a relatively easy way to select the right angle from a multicam clip and then 'dismantle' the multicam (leaving just the chosen angle clip)?

Thanks again.

I also intent to contact Apple (though not expecting much there :((



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Joe Marler
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 24, 2018 at 11:49:56 am

[Sara Blom] "The problem is however that I can't seem to make any change in that tab. I can change things like format but the standard-rec709 tab remains non-active. Could this be because it is a multicam clip? "

I think you can just select all clips in the Event Browser (not just the parent clips for your multicams) and re-flag them Rec 709. In my experience the problem is elusive and unpredictable so it's better to re-flag everything, else it could happen again, maybe in a subtle way that eludes QC checks until your product is delivered.

I'd suggest first trying that on a small scale, such as only the parent clips of one multicam that reliably exhibits the problem. If that works, do them all, but make a backup of your library beforehand. If you are intentionally using some non-709 material, I'm not sure how to selectively re-flag only the 709 clips, or if the problem even happens on non-709 clips.

If that doesn't solve it, you may need to delete and regenerate all render files and maybe proxies, if you're using proxies. It's not just a playback issue. Once the problem happens it becomes encoded in generated or rendered files.


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Sara Blom
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 24, 2018 at 2:55:54 pm

The problem is that I can't reflag the clip because this function seems in-actieve when I open the tab.
This is the case when I click on the clip in the event browser as when I click on a multiclip in the timeline.
I tried uploading a file below where you can see it.

schermafbeelding2018-08-24om16.49.16.png


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 24, 2018 at 3:16:49 pm

[Sara Blom] "The problem is that I can't reflag the clip because this function seems in-actieve when I open the tab."

This needs to be done in the inspector (command-4). I would change the clips inside the Multicam (that means open the angle editor and do it there, as well as the mutliclip itself, if that it possible). You have to do this on the individual clips.

See here:




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Joe Marler
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 25, 2018 at 7:46:17 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This needs to be done in the inspector (command-4). I would change the clips inside the Multicam (that means open the angle editor and do it there, as well as the mutliclip itself, if that it possible)."

Yes, you do it in the Inspector as you showed. You can do all the clips in the entire event in a single step. Just select them all then change the color space override in Inspector. They all get changed.

I'm not sure you need to open the Multicam and do those. When I re-flagged to Rec 709 the parent clips in the Event Browser for an existing Multicam clip, then looked inside the MC clip, those had inherited the change.

You can't change the color space override of the MC clip itself.

As I said before, I'd suggest making a backup of the library before doing global changes like this. It should cause no problems but it's easy to make a mistake or maybe later find you had Rec 601 or 2020 clips you didn't want changed.


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Sara Blom
Re: Colour flickering when adding any titles / generators / images over timeline
on Aug 28, 2018 at 12:08:20 pm

Re-flagging the individual clips to rec709 worked! What a great relief.

Thanks everyone for the advice on how to get there.

Sara


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