APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Cherin Bower
Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 6, 2017 at 5:24:17 am

I am looking for a solution to my work flow with the new Canon 1D x mark ii 4k media I already collected. I shot everything in .mov because I am a mac user. I also shot almost every video in 4k. The 4k files are large and I can't easily playback in Quicktime, which I need due to the 3 TB of of clips I have to sort through. Once they are converted I will use FCPx to edit a 4k timeline. I can either import the original (large file) or, I'd rather import the smaller, easier to view version I created. I don't want to import everything into FCPx just to view it. I want to double click on the file in finder, quickly look through the content and watch it playback smoothly.

I cannot find a simple solution of which converter to use for the best output and ease of converting multiple clips at once.

Here are the conversion tests I ran and reasons to which I like best:

Quicktime export as->4k - size went from 600 mb to 33 mb
Compressor->Apple ProRes 422 - size from 600 mb to 950 mb (I don't really want to double my storage size, but this video looks good)
Compressor->4k sharing services - size from 600 mb to 17 mb (loss of quality and a much smaller sized output, not sure if I trust this for editing)
FCPx-> Optimized media on import->sharing services->master file->Video and Audio->H.264->output a QT mov - size from 600 mb to 113 mb (BEST)
Movavi for mac->4k mp4 on "high" setting - size from 600 mb to 150 mb (good, but loss of quality and almost as good as FCPx)

SO, I like the quality of the output of the optimized media (Apple ProRes 422) AND I like the size of 113 mb - it didn't end up a meager 17 mb and it didn't end up a larger, 950 mb file size.

BUT this is NOT a good work flow! In compressor I can ingest all my media, apply the same settings and let it get to work, but it outputs a much larger file than the original and they are already big (my test video is only 7 seconds shot at 4k). In FCPx I have to import a folder of videos, then let FCPx create optimized media in the background, THEN drag it to a timeline as an individual clip THEN export (share) out of FCPx and choose all the settings. This is NOT going to work. Is there a better way? I do have an extra laptop to work on these conversions while I edit a timeline on my main computer in FCPx, so at least there is that.

Here are my computer specs:
MacBook Pro 15 in mid 2014
OSx High Sierra 10.13.1
2.5 GHz intel core i7
16 GB ram
Nivdia GeForse GT 750M 2 GB
Intel iris pro 1536 MB

Does anyone have a helpful solution? Am I going about this all wrong? I also have mxf files from a Sony Cam that I did the same tests and ended up just using compressors 4k sharing services. But that's a pain because you have to first import the videos into FCPx, then individually click on the clip and choose "send to compressor" then you can batch compress. I've done that for A YEAR with so many clips I am over it. There must be a BETTER WAY.


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:37:09 am

Ingest as is into FCPX- generate proxies- edit in proxy mode- switch to original quality mode for final edit output-done.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


Return to posts index

Joe Marler
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 6, 2017 at 10:46:45 am

[Noah Kadner] "Ingest as is into FCPX- generate proxies- edit in proxy mode- switch to original quality mode for final edit output-done."

In addition you can often import with "leave files in place" (depending on the media type). This makes the import much faster than copying to the library. Where tree-based media does not allow this, you can often rewrap with EditReady which is much faster than transcoding, then import the files in place.

By default proxies go into the library but there is a procedure for using external proxies, which FCPX generates outside the library. This is no faster but keeps the library file small so it can be interchanged among several editors. This procedure is described in Ripple Training's 10.3 Media Management tutorial.

Editors have long sorted through material before ingest -- because editing software was slow and clunky at browsing through material, plus there were few organizational tools inside. But FCPX is super fast at browsing content and has good organization tools. In many cases the fastest approach is just ingest with "leave files in place" and do most of the organizing inside FCPX. Disk space is relatively cheap -- what's expensive is time.

This procedure works well enough for me to edit a 20 terabyte 4k documentary on an 2017 iMac 27.

That said, the rate of transcoding from 4k H264 to ProRes proxies varies widely between machines. A 2014 MacBook Pro is OK but not that fast. A 2017 top-spec iMac 27 is *twice* as fast as a 12-core D700 Mac Pro, and about twice as fast as a 2015 iMac 27 at this task. But for smaller data sizes a 2014 MBP might be OK, especially if you let it run overnight.


Return to posts index


Cherin Bower
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:33:04 pm

Thanks Noah, but I am looking to convert all the media for easy playback in QuickTime but not loose any quality and downsize the output. Proxy is just a viewing /editing feature, I'm not wanting to ingest it all as proxy. I was hoping for a possible solution with Compressor output settings or a way to more easily use FCP to mass compress. I would prefer two clips stored: the original and a smaller viewable version good enough to use editing 4k video and to share online without making any changes. Maybe you can help?
Thanks anyway!


Return to posts index

Jeff Kirkland
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:47:32 pm
Last Edited By Jeff Kirkland on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:49:01 pm

Given that FCPX uses the same encoding engine as Compressor, the only reason for a file size difference between sending clips from FCPX to Compressor and just batch encoding in Compressor is the output settings. To speed things up a little you could send one clip from FCPX to compressor, save those settings as a preset and then just batch encode within Compressor

You might also try an application like Editready which is specifically designed to batch transcode footage to ProRes or h.264, amongst others. Not sure how it handles the 1DX files but generally if QuickTime can read it, so can Editready.

You could also try the free version Davinci Resolve for the batch transcode. Import the footage, edit it all to a timeline and then get Resolve to output the timeline as individual clips in whatever format you want.

Having said all that, I’d personally just open the originals in FCPX to view them. If that’s where you’re going to edit them and you have to review and organise the footage in there to prep for the edit anyway, then why not? I’d personally avoid any option that took a high quality original and transcoded it to a more compressed one, which most of you preferred options above would do.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


Return to posts index

Cherin Bower
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 7, 2017 at 1:52:55 am

Thanks for your response Jeff. I am considering just using FCPx proxy, but I need to think about it. I'd like to first figure out my best compression settings. Edit ready worked well, but I like your idea on setting up the same settings from FCPx to Compressor but I am still having trouble and maybe you can help.

I don't know how to recreate those settings from FCPx to Compressor. I can create a custom AppleProRes 422 setting in Compressor, but it does not allow me to control the bitrate therefore creating a larger file than the original, so how come the FCPx optimized video shared as H.264 highest quality is a manageable size and the best compressed quality where in Compressor it grows to nearly a GB? So I tried creating a custom H.264 setting so I can control the bitrate. I left the frame size, frame rate and color space on automatic. I chose H.264 as the Compression Type so I can restrict the data rate to a smaller number. I don't understand this completely but I tried to get the same bitrate as the FCPx optimized H.264 video for the same video but with these settings in Compressor. I restricted it to 200,000 kb/s and I got a similar output, though larger (176 mb for a 7 sec video) to the FCPx video which is 138,000 kb/s (113 mb for a 7 sec video). Again the original clip is actually 692 mb and has a bitrate of 829,000 kb/s. I want to finish this task, is this the right way to do it?

My question is, is there a difference between the video imported to FCPx and create optimized media and the original source file? My guess is no, because I compared them and they are the same size and bitrate so I assume you don't get the optimized feature until you share out of FCPx. I sent the optimized clip to Compressor, but it doesn't show me any specific settings in compressor to mimic it. I want to only use compressor. Do you know how to mimic the FCPx settings in Compressor? I don't know much about this, so the more detailed the better. Thanks!


Return to posts index


Jeff Kirkland
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 7, 2017 at 11:12:53 pm

[Cherin Bower] "My question is, is there a difference between the video imported to FCPx and create optimized media and the original source file? "

When FCPX optimises media it essentially creates a ProRes version of your file at whatever quality setting you set the project to (HQ, 422, or LT). That optimised file is used internally while you are editing. When you export, FCPX would use the original 1DX media to export from if it's still available or the optimised file if not.

I'd guess that inside compressor the 4k for Apple devices preset is probably the closest to your export from FCPX. Otherwise you could create a new Quicktime Movie preset and use the Quicktime encoder's settings, which I think you tried and liked? (sorry don't have your earlier post in front of me.)

I personally use EditReady to convert pretty much anything I edit to ProRes - usually ProRes LT unless I need the extra quality for some reason. H264 just isn't a great codec for editing - it can slow things down a lot - and I figure hard drive space is cheaper than my time.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


Return to posts index

Cherin Bower
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 8, 2017 at 5:47:47 am

Great, thanks for the responses! I was unfamiliar with the different ApplePro Res 422 LT, HQ and regular outputs. I was looking for a lower bitrate or just a clip that would play back in Quicktime without being choppy, but still be able to use ApplePro Res for editing. You convinced me to transcode the media to ApplePro Res LT (thanks for pointing that one out) even though I will end up with larger file sizes. They play back in Quicktime smooth compared to the original, but why? The original clip's bit rate is 829 mb/s and the Apple ProRes LT output is 849 mb/s. The 692 mb clip ends up at 707 mb, but I am just glad it plays smoothly.

I like Edit ready, it does a good job, but since I have Compressor they seem to have relatively similar output options now that I know what they do.

Ultimately I may take the advice of everyone who responded to work with the original media in FCPx. I will see if that works for me. And, I will be purchasing this year's (hopefully this month's) release of the new iMac Pro! I might have questions for you all on how many specs I need to upgrade to for my editing purposes. We are all afraid of the price tag.

Thank you for all the advice! I learned a lot.


Return to posts index

Jeff Kirkland
Re: Workflow converting: 4k playback of .mov files shot on Canon 1D x mark ii
on Dec 8, 2017 at 9:32:38 pm

Different codecs perform differently when it comes to playing them back. When it comes to playback it’s more about the effort the computer requires to decode it than the actual bitrate. Pretty much everything about the Mac and FCPX is optimised for ProRes. Not surprising as it’s Apple’s own codec.

Editready has a couple of advantages (amongst its many) that might apply to you First, it’s not as awkward to use as Compressor if you’re batch encoding a lot of footage which can be a huge timesaver and second, it will read and embed as much of the original clip’s metadata as it can when transcoding. Compressor will leave all that behind, especially if the source is from a DSLR or camera that keeps the metadata in a seperate file on the camera card.

Anyway, enough of a sales pitch for Editready 😉. Glad I could be of some help.

----
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer & Cinematographer
Hobart, Tasmania | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]