APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Jeff Markgraf
The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 1, 2015 at 11:27:10 pm

My goodness, it's like one of those serialized magazine stories...

So it seems that X to Resolve and back or Avid to Resolve and back is straightforward. X to Resolve to Avid is considerably less so. One issue is that the tutorials I find online are for earlier versions of Resolve. The menus and workflows have changed substantially from v9 to v11. At any rate...

Here are the pertinent details: Some media is consolidated from Avid onto an external drive, other media is copied over from a server or other sources. All of the video is in MXF format, mostly DnXHD 145. Other assets are graphics in the usual formats.

Importing into X and building a sequence works fine. XML to Resolve is fine. Using the deliveries mode, I render the media into a properly configured Avid MediaFiles folder ("1" inside "MXF" inside the main folder). I use the Avid roundtrip preset set to DnXHD 145 8 bit (the in-house standard). From the edit mode, I export an AAF file.

Drive is hooked up to the Avid (it's a separate computer for security reasons). Avid scans the drive and updates its database and makes the appropriate database file in the folder. Drag the database file from the folder into a bin. Clips populate. Drag the AAF into the bin. Sequence appears.

Media is offline. The media pointed to by the AAF has been renamed. No joy. Do it again. And again. Finally figure out how to turn off the "add prefix or suffix" setting. Now the AAF sequence links to the video but not the audio. Sequence is more or less OK (I mostly just need the timings, not the effects).

Am I missing some thing important here? I can live with this, as these projects typically have only a few SOTs. The rest is music/vo/fx. But I'd surely like to figure out why the audio doesn't link.

Also of note is that the last time I tried this, I had to reinsert the audio into the Resolve timeline. I decomposed each clip in place to get rid of the compounded graphics and mafch-framed to the video and replaced the audio.

Clearly there are some parameters I'm getting wrong, but I can't find the answers in with the manual or in the mostly out of date tutorials.

Any help?


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 2, 2015 at 2:46:36 am

If it started in X why not just finish in X? Avid's not exactly awash in unique finishing tools.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 2, 2015 at 3:42:26 am

Well, yes, that's preferred. I will in fact be finishing in x. (Actually, sending cut from x to ae via clip exporter and bringing the finished graphics back in x. )

The transfer to Avid is a security blanket for the VP. This is an Avid shop. These projects are frequently changed and cut down and repurposed weeks and months after they are finished. I'm a freelancer (for now), and there's the chance someone else will do the cut downs. So they want a rough cut sequence in the avid in order to make the changes if I'm not available. Hence my desire to find a relatively painless conversion.

I've convinced the creative director (my immediate boss) that I can cut these faster and better in x. He needs to manage this process upward in order to make it happen. So the burden is on me to show them it won't cause any problems for their admittedly outdated workflow.


Return to posts index


Noah Kadner
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 2, 2015 at 4:13:47 am

I guess you could roll in X2Pro and then some EDL translator to sort of approximate an Avid compatible cut but true 100% fidelity is a bit of a pipe dream.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 2, 2015 at 4:43:52 am

I tried making an edl for the avid, but edl manager wouldn't recognize it. Nor did it work as an ale file.

I guess what I really need is an experienced resolve user to weigh in on this. Resolve 11, not 9 or 10. Oliver? Anyone?


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 2, 2015 at 6:38:15 am

Have you looked at- https://library.creativecow.net/freeman_scott/AVID-Framerate-Metadata/1

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 1:01:24 am

I'm not exactly sure where the issue is, but I ran a simple test and it all worked. However, all the media is on internal drives inside my tower. These are the steps I followed.

1. From FCP X, I imported DNxHD .MXF media directly from an Avid MediaFile folder (leave in external location).

2. Edit in FCP X and export .FCPXML for the project.

3. Import that into Resolve and you should see a new timeline. Then go to Deliver page. Export/Render, using the Avid AAF easy set-up. This will render new media and an AAF file to your target folder.

4. Drag that folder into one of your Avid MediaFile/MXF locations and rename it with a number.

5. Open an MC project and import the AAF file. Your bin *should* populate with a set of master clips and a sequence that is correctly linked.

I hope that helps.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 2:24:16 am

Hi Oliver. Thanks for replying. Apologies in advance for my long response.

I've mostly been using Avid clips consolidated onto an external drive (FCP and Resolve are on one computer, Avid is on a different computer & ISIS). These clips are imported and left in place. In FCP, the mxf clips show up as separate audio and video, so I've been making synchronized clips for the SOTs. One possibly important note: some of these original Avid clips came from tape & have a reel name. Others are imported and have no reel name.

Edit fine in FCP. Export FCPXML. Import XML into Resolve.

I was having an issue where Resolve didn't put the audio in the timeline. The clips in the media pool were fine. Saw a Sam Mestman post about synchronized clips not working in round-tripping. Tried again with SOTs broken apart and detached audio in FCP. Import worked. Oddly, Resolve says it can't find one or more files, but everything shows up.

Decompose in place to get rid of compound clips and transforms. Deliver to a new folder with Avid AAF preset. Copy files into Avid MediaFiles->MXF->1. Launch Avid. Avid scans the folder and makes the .pmr and .mdb files. Drag .mdb into bin. Bin populates with clips. Clips play fine. Drag AAF into bin.

Now it gets goofy.

Sequence shows up in bin along with the audio files that are renamed with "%20" where the spaces should be. So "CM 4.mov.PV01.D0F1A54CC62EF.mxf" (the mxf clip with the video ID name) shows up as "CM%204" with the other characters truncated and no extension. The number of characters in the name varies and sometimes includes part of the V01 string, but always with the %20 in place of the spaces. These renamed files are offline. (Note that they only show up in the bin when the AAF is imported.)

The sequence places the clips correctly. The video is online. Some clips show the non-%20 filenames, others show the %20 filenames. Audio is offline. Clicking in the sequence throws up an Avid error about referencing a nonexistent track in the clip (shows the %20 version of the clip name with a missing A1 track). Match framing to the video allows me to replace the audio.

The music and sfx files (.aif files) don't come across at all, and don't even show up in the folder of Resolve renders.

Selecting "Render unique filenames" in the Resolve render settings (on by default with the Avid AAF preset) forces either a unique prefix or unique suffix, which seems to prevent any clip from getting exported unscathed.

I am truly stymied. I can't find any info online dealing with these issues. The vast majority of posts and tutorials are for Resolve 9, which is rather different from 11. Additionally, while I'm fine with the usual Avid consolidate and relink process, I've never understood the intricacies of relinking in Avid well enough to figure how to relink to the correct files (or pieces of files, in this case) in this kind of situation.

Any help appreciated. I'll buy you drinks at NAB if you're going this year!


Return to posts index

Sam Mestman
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 5:41:43 pm

The bottom line is this... if you go into Resolve expecting to do anything associated with Audio, you are entering a world of pain.

Resolve is simply not ready for prime time when it comes to audio at this point, unless you just want to drop in a finished mix at the end.

It's a fantastic finishing tool that is learning how to be an NLE... and is a great one as long as you don't need sound with your picture.

Also, I've tried the FCPX to Avid rabbit hole... bottom line is that you shouldn't trust it for anything remotely complicated.

AAF's are a bit of a nightmare and Avid is notoriously bad at playing well with others.

Getting to Premiere/FCP7 is a far better insurance policy using X to 7.

X2Pro works great for audio, but breaks down with video over AAF.

Why Avid won't just use XML already is one of the great mysteries of our time... but until it happens, honestly, even attempting what you're trying to do is just more trouble than it's worth.

Sam Mestman
Workflow Architect - FCPWORKS
http://www.fcpworks.com
http://www.wemakemovies.org


Return to posts index


Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 7:49:15 pm

I guess in the end I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised. Unfortunately, I need to figure out some method of getting the project onto Avid in order to satisfy the execs. I really don't want to have to recreate the whole thing manually...

Perhaps Resolve for the video and X2Pro for the video is best.

I'm also considering spending the money for EDL-X. I Avid can make a sequence from the EDL and then batch import the files.

I also plan to send these projects to AE via Clip Exporter. I wonder if AE to PPro to Avid works any better?

Thanks to all for advice. Feel free to continue weigh in on this.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 8:38:08 pm

I'm in total agreement with Sam. Resolve is flaky with audio and so far, every attempt I've made to move audio through Resolve has been unsatisfactory. The X->R11->MC tests I have done have been with simple video-only timelines. So I would recommend that if you still want to try the experiment, start off with a simplified timeline as a proof-of-concept first.

My suggestions are to follow the steps I posted earlier. Don't drag the database files into the bin, because the AAF should give you that info. Also no need to do any consolidating. I'm not sure why that need was there, since Resolve's renders to that for you.

As far as audio, I recommend using roles to export dialogue, SFX and music stems. Then import those into Avid and line them up with your sequence. I would definitely avoid any complex clips, like synchronized, compound and multicam clips. If you have those, break them apart before creating the FCPXML.

Good luck. This is not Avid's strongest point. I'm also not sure about the viability with an EDL, because this will require relinking - also something Avid is terrible at doing well, when media comes from the outside world.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 10:44:12 pm

Oliver,

Just to clarify, the consolidating was just getting the files out of the Avid onto a drive to work with in FCP and Resolve. I could have pulled them directly from the media tool, I suppose.

Also, the dragging the database into the bin first was recommended in several articles about the Resolve to Avid workflow. And note that the AAF populated the bin with the renamed audio files that are offline. I still don't know what this is about.

I have to reluctantly agree with you and Sam that avoiding audio through Resolve is in order. I had already successfully made a roles-based QT out of FCP and imported and cut it up in the Avid sequence. No problems there. And yes, breaking apart the audio was necessary.

So I guess I have my answer. In the end, i will probably use this method, then overwrite the audio clips with the Avid-based music and effects as time permits.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 4, 2015 at 10:58:51 pm

Yep. It's a PITA. Ideally, we shouldn't have to go through this kluge of a workaround. You should be able to import an AAF and simply relink to files that already exist on the Avid drives. Of course, then you'd have to get a valid AAF out of FCP X that deals with video or get Avid to read XML or FCPXML. I doubt that either will happen. The one other possible option might be to try a different route through Premiere Pro.

FCPXML to XML via Xto7.
Import into Premiere and make sure the clips and timeline are correctly relinked (from Avid MXF files in an Avid MediaFiles folder).
Export an AAF and then import that into MC.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Eric Santiago
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 5, 2015 at 12:57:11 pm

Might not help but with my past workflow, I would render out the Avid AAF into numbered folder.
Then copy an Avid MDB/PMR from a working folder into that new MXF folder.
Once I open Avid the database updates.
Next step is I grab the MDB file and drag into a bin.
Then files populate.
Now this was a fix with FCPX blessed R3D/AutoSync to WAV files.
In the end editors found issues with the AutoSync files off by a few frames on 10 out off possibly 800 clips (I dont believe they checked all of them).
Oliver does this sound like a viable workflow?
For this workflow we only needed to move the FCPX blessed files over to Avid using Resolve 11.


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 5, 2015 at 8:09:26 pm

Eric-

Pretty much what I've been doing. No joy for me, so I"m looking at alternatives.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 6, 2015 at 1:07:15 am

[Eric Santiago] "Oliver does this sound like a viable workflow?"

Sure, it's viable, but there's no longer any need to do all this manual stuff with the database files. At least not with MC 8.3.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeff Markgraf
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Feb 6, 2015 at 2:38:33 am

Right. As I've mentioned, almost all the online tutorials and blog posts on this topic are for Resolve 9 and for earlier versions of Avid. Avid 8 has many improvements, especially in dealing with files instead of tapes.


Return to posts index

Caroline Rowlands
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:44:51 pm

Hi All

I'm an assistant editor. I was working on this current project for the shoot part and the editor was using FCPX. I then wasn't needed but then they hired me again to turnover. However, they also decided to get a new editor on board who... guess what.. only works in avid! So this migration problem has fallen on me!

I took over from the new editor's assistant (as he had a holiday booked) who had managed to get across the picture via resolve. However audio is the nightmare....!!!!!

The project is working from 1080p Prores Proxy Qts and Wav files. It is all running off an external hard drive.

Things I have tried so far for audio:

In avid my wav files were (AMA) linked in from the original source path. For the below tests I would have my linked audio selected and relink from the aaf/edl seq and select link to selected in open bins.

FCPX via fcpxml to Resolve via AAF to avid = Sequence appears but no name or metadata comes through and as a result all is offline.

FCPX via fcpxml to XtoCC via xml to Premiere via AAF to avid. = The sequence links in Premiere, the aaf opens in avid and appears to have correct metadata but it will not relink.

FCPX via fcpxml to XtoPro via AAF to Avid = this opens with metadata but often has bugs which crashed avid but if not it sometimes relinks (my only bit of success)!

FCPX via fcpxml to XtoPro to ProTools via AAF to Avid = no metadata carried over.

FCPX via fcpxml to XtoPro to ProTools via EDL to Avid = no metadata apart from clip name and did not relink.

Then I imported the wavs to make mxf ref files. I tried all of the above but it did not want to relink with open databases etc.

We are now trying to see if the sound team can take an ALE of my imported wavs and use a tool to link the aaf they make to my audio mxf's.

Will keep you posted...and ofcourse if anyone can enlighten me to where this is falling down that would be great!

Thanks
C


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 7:00:02 pm

THIS is why you hire an editor that is familiar with the NLE being used. The sheer amount of time and effort needed to convert an entire project to another NLE means a lot of wasted time and money. If they don't know the NLE, don't hire them.

I know this isn't your issue...sorry, just ranting.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 7:17:11 pm

[Caroline Rowlands] "Will keep you posted...and ofcourse if anyone can enlighten me to where this is falling down that would be great!"

You're not going to want to hear this, but... In the end you will get what you need with a lot less hassle.

1. Create a fresh Avid project, bring in the media and sync as needed.
2. In FCPX - export your rough cut with source TC burnin as a self-contained file.
3. Bring that into Media Composer and overcut the clips from FCPX with new Avid media.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Caroline Rowlands
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 7:54:33 pm

Yes it would seem the 4 days of scratching my head has probably not been worth it.
Although I will be bringing some of the rushes over again, to overcut a 90 minute feature is a big task and then any audio that is not synced to the picture you would have to go back to FCPX and figure out the take and timecode.

I guess one thing your answer tells me is to maybe give up on the clever way and just go for manual which is helpful so thankyou!

I'd just love to know why the aaf from Premiere looks like it has all the right metadata but just will not relink.. why can't avid see the metadata and work it out!????

There must be something in the way XtoPro makes an AAF that differs from Premier in my mind.. love to hear your thoughts?

C


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 8:13:04 pm

[Caroline Rowlands] "Although I will be bringing some of the rushes over again, to overcut a 90 minute feature is a big task and then any audio that is not synced to the picture you would have to go back to FCPX and figure out the take and timecode. "

Type in the TC and bang away. Just stick with sync audio. After all, if they are bringing in another editor to recut it, how accurate does this rough cut really need to be? It's going to get trashed anyway.

[Caroline Rowlands] "I guess one thing your answer tells me is to maybe give up on the clever way and just go for manual which is helpful so thankyou! "

The trouble with trying to bring over audio is that I don't believe it will represent any sync relationship to the master clips. It will only be independent audio clips on the timeline, which isn't very useful for making meaningful revisions.

[Caroline Rowlands] "I'd just love to know why the aaf from Premiere looks like it has all the right metadata but just will not relink.."

Because project migration is largely a big lie told to us as editors. Simple things come across, but a LOT of stuff gets lost along the way. And relinking inside Media Composer is the most difficult process of the various NLEs. It's really picky.

[Caroline Rowlands] "There must be something in the way XtoPro makes an AAF that differs from Premier in my mind"

X2Pro is designed to work with ProTools. Not really anything else.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The continuing saga of FCP to Resolve to Avid
on Dec 6, 2017 at 8:34:12 pm

Have you looked at AATranslator?

http://www.aatranslator.com.au/

It's an incredibly versatile solution for audio interchange that might just be useful here.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]