APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

The new Mac Pro VS MSI?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
andy patterson
The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 2:16:37 am

Everybody seemed to get excited about the iMac Pro as well as the rumors surrounding the new Mac Pro. What about Lenovo, Dell, MSI, Asus and HP?

No one can deny the system below for just under $1,400.00 would be great for editing photos and videos as well as 3-D animation. I admit striping four 3TB hard drives together would be great investment. Having said that Apple has nothing to compete with this system. I am not saying the Apple products don't work. I am saying Apple does not offer great system specs at an affordable price.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/488859/CodexXE062US_Desktop_Computer

As far as the new iMac Pro why not offer a 34" 21:9 Ultra-wide monitor and why doesn't the new iMac Pro keyboard come with the touch bar?

https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/specs/


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 3:28:41 am

[andy patterson] "Apple has nothing to compete with this system."

The current MacPros will blow this config out of the water. Dual Xenons are superior to a single Intel i7 8700. This would be more competition to the current iMac.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 3:41:36 am

It will be interesting to see how the new macs stack up. Currently, there are endless youtube videos showing PC's dominating Macs in benchmark tests.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index


andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 8:29:46 am

[Shane Ross] "The current MacPros will blow this config out of the water. Dual Xenons are superior to a single Intel i7 8700. This would be more competition to the current iMac."

The Mac Pro for $2999.99 does not have Dual Xeons. In another 6 months some of the $1,4000.00 PC might have the Volta GPUs in them. What good would a D 500 do against Volta? I am not saying the PC will blow away the Mac Pro. I am saying for $1,4000.00 Apple offers nothing to compete with the gaming PCs. Does Apple even offer the Coffee Lake CPUs? The Xeons in the past have been out performed by the i7 just like the GeForce cards outperform the Quadro cards. Having said that Edius and FCPX will will both get a huge performance boost using the i7 as opposed to the Xeon CPU when editing AVCHD/H.264/mpeg4. Perhaps the new Xeons will have Quick Sync. Only time will tell.


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 1:34:01 pm

Hi Andy -
for the first time in all these years, I am having this conversation more and more. Now - are you referring to a computer for use with FCP X (making this into a Hackintosh), or just a PC to run Resolve and Premiere (and possibly AVID).
Yea, ASUS and MSI (and others) are making some fantastic looking products. And while most people are not willing to build their own Win 10 PC, companies like ASUS are making pre fab hi end models for less than a HP Z840 or Dell Precision, that come with NVidia GTX-1080's. And of course, there is always Boxx Systems and Puget Systems (and probably others). So if the blown out iMac Pro is in fact $17,000 retail - well, that's just crazy. But as has been discussed before, if the iMac Pro can be fitted with a Sonnet or Akitio eGPU box for $300 and you stick a AMD Radeon Vega 64 or RX580 in the box - well, this is a cheaper way than paying Apple for a blown out unit.

I think that the bottom line here, is that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON on this forum (even Robin) will pay $17,000 for an Apple computer in 2017. Period.
http://247wallst.com/technology-3/2017/07/06/building-a-17000-apple-imac-pr...
https://www.macdiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1085.0
and plenty of other links.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 3:53:49 pm

[Bob Zelin] "for the first time in all these years, I am having this conversation more and more. Now - are you referring to a computer for use with FCP X (making this into a Hackintosh),"

I don't think a Hackintosh for FCPX is wise decision for most people. That is why I bought my Mac Mini.



[Bob Zelin] ", or just a PC to run Resolve and Premiere (and possibly AVID)."

I was thinking for PC programs like Edius, Vegas Video, DR 14, Premiere Pro etc.



[Bob Zelin] "Yea, ASUS and MSI (and others) are making some fantastic looking products."

I agree.



[Bob Zelin] "And while most people are not willing to build their own Win 10 PC, companies like ASUS are making pre fab hi end models for less than a HP Z840 or Dell Precision, that come with NVidia GTX-1080'"

I say never under estimate the power of the GTX 1080 Ti (gaming PC).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230272



[Bob Zelin] " So if the blown out iMac Pro is in fact $17,000 retail - well, that's just crazy. But as has been discussed before, if the iMac Pro can be fitted with a Sonnet or Akitio eGPU box for $300 and you stick a AMD Radeon Vega 64 or RX580 in the box - well, this is a cheaper way than paying Apple for a blown out unit."

I agree. Why buy dual AMD D 500 GPUs? Why not offer the GTX 1080 Ti? The 2013 Mac Pro was not what people were expecting. It will work like the other Apple products but I would prefer what the competition has to offer if I want to edit videos.



[Bob Zelin] "I think that the bottom line here, is that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON on this forum (even Robin) will pay $17,000 for an Apple computer in 2017. Period."

It is up to the end users to boycott Apple until they offer the price/performance of the competition. Asus, MSI and Lenovo all have to be competitive or they will go bankrupt. Apple not so much.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 5:57:54 pm

But you can get a BTO Late 2014 MacMini with a 4th generation Dual Core i7 processor with integrated Intel Iris GPU for $1900. With that option why would anyone want an 8th generation Hex Core i7 with GTX 1080 for $1500? 😁

Are the two TB2 ports and case design worth that much? 😒

Perhaps Apple is about to replace the MacMini with something more realistically priced.



Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 6:29:11 pm

[Craig Seeman] "With that option why would anyone want an 8th generation Hex Core i7 with GTX 1080 for $1500?"

Because on the PC side you can take advantage of CUDA processing which is superior to OpenGL.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 6:25:55 pm

"It is up to the end users to boycott Apple until they offer the price/performance of the competition. Asus, MSI and Lenovo all have to be competitive or they will go bankrupt. Apple not so much."

I can't help feeling that a boycott would be completely unnoticed by Apple, so wasted time. On the other hand, those boycotting would find a whole new and much cheaper world, and never return.

I've been building computers since the mid-nineties. My first was because I couldn't get what I wanted for a graphics system at the BBC and no-one in engineering would help. So - a Matrox Digisuite with a Windows NT built round it. That first machine build was really scary and was physically tricky. The job has became much easier down the years, and is now much like Lego. Pretty much anything plugs into anything and generally just works. No more watching those blue dots hoping that NT will load.

I'm certain that anyone with any technical skill at all could build a computer. There are heaps of DIY videos on YouTube, and somewhere amongst the dross there's bound to be one that's helpful. I've managed it about ten times now without any kind of tutor. It must be easy.

Bernie


Return to posts index


Steve Connor
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 8:12:40 pm
Last Edited By Steve Connor on Dec 5, 2017 at 8:12:58 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "So - a Matrox Digisuite with a Windows NT built round it. That first machine build was really scary and was physically tricky."

I made a couple of those, I really liked the Digisuite Cards, especially on those infrequent times when Matrox drivers worked properly

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 6:54:38 pm

[Bob Zelin] "I think that the bottom line here, is that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON on this forum (even Robin) will pay $17,000 for an Apple computer in 2017. Period. "

While quite true, the "entry-level" iMac Pro at $5K is the comparable machine to the 8-core 2013 Mac Pro with 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD at $5K. Except with the iMac Pro you get a newer vintage CPU, a gorgeous display, TB3, and 10GigE. That $5K 2013 Mac Pro is a similar Mac Pro to what I'm sitting in front of right now, so if the iMac Pro can deliver comparable or better performance, I'd say it's a good deal. An 18-core/128GB RAM machine is overkill for video editing and most After Effects work.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Lance Bachelder
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 8:33:20 pm

I concur Oliver - the base iMac Pro is only around $1600 more than a similar config iMac so a relative bargain. But beyond that I'm not sure who would buy a maxed out iMac Pro? It would be overkill for most editing gigs and inadequate for CG effects, animation, compositing etc compared to a maxed out HP or Dell. It's still only a SINGLE XEON!

I would rather see a 6 or 8 core option for the current iMac which at street prices is just a few hundred dollars. There is little need for ECC memory or Xeons for editing or Photoshop. So just not sure who the "Pro" is that Apple is targeting? I have friends at Dreamworks and they are not going to abandon their dual Xeon Quadro 6000 workstations for an iMac Pro.

The $1400 PC that started the thread is more than enough for most editing gigs BUT it can't run FCPX or render out a Pro Res file so sadly useless to me. I would much rather but;ld and 8 core PC with Samsung m.2 drive and Quadro card but my clients need Pro Res :(

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 9:16:45 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "But beyond that I'm not sure who would buy a maxed out iMac Pro?"

My guess is that the iMac Pro is a stop-gap measure to appease the folks who are restless about a Mac Pro refresh. I think the maxed-out configuration is probably only theoretical. They can do it, but probably know that almost no one will buy that variation. The iMac Pro is something they could get out the door this year that would satisfy most pro users, while they contemplate what to do about the Mac Pro. And has anyone actually confirmed that the CPU is a Xeon and not an i7 successor?

I personally think the odds are 50/50 that they may never build the next Mac Pro, if iMac sales do well - both standard and Pro. OTOH, part of it may simply be politics, assuming another Mac Pro is still assembled in the US. Maybe they'll release one for brownie points even if it loses money.

As far as the iMac line, it is the direct descendent in spirit from the original Macintosh, so I think it has an advantage as being the only Apple desktop machine (other than maybe the Mini). Plus, if current ads are any indication, there's certainly a contingent within Apple that believes the future of "computers" is in the iPad and/or maybe MacBooks. I already encounter people in the industry who own the minimal in personal computing (relying only on phones and tablets and maybe laptops) and only use "real" computers at their job.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Lance Bachelder
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 9:43:15 pm

Yes the Apple site says XEON 8, 10 or 16 core but not dual like was said above I think. Also ECC ram which I don't think runs on an i7? I think you're right very few will ever order a maxed iMac Pro...

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 10:25:09 pm

I fully appreciate the fact that you want to run FCP X, and that you have a delivery requirement for ProRes.
I am just continuing the conversation about the easy instant availability of powerful PRE ASSEMBLED Win PC's from companies like ASUS.

This is a ASUS ROG GT51CA for under $3500
https://www.amazon.com/GT51CA-XB71K-GTX1080SLI-Overclocked-overclockable-Ge...

Intel i7
4.2 Gig
64 Gig RAM
NVidia GTX 1080 SLI
1TB SATA AND two NVMe 512 Gig SSD's.
USB C ports and 8 USB 3 ports
in the top "questions answered" - apparently this version comes with TWO 1080 SLI cards.

All I know is that this is cheap. And you don't have to put it together yourself. For running Resolve, Premiere, etc.
and again - I KNOW it won't run FCP X.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index


andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 10:57:58 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Intel i7
4.2 Gig
64 Gig RAM
NVidia GTX 1080 SLI
1TB SATA AND two NVMe 512 Gig SSD's.
USB C ports and 8 USB 3 ports
in the top "questions answered" - apparently this version comes with TWO 1080 SLI cards. "


There is nothing wrong with the system specs. Having said that if I were to have dual GPUs I would probably want an 8 Core i7 CPU if not a 10 Core i7 CPU but it is all subjective to the users needs. On the Windows side you have the option to have Intel, AMD, ATI or Nvidia as well as dual CPUs.

I just made my post to make everyone aware that a gaming PC with an i7 8700K and GTX 1070 would be a good editing system for $1,400.00. A lot of people think you have to buy an HP Xeon system. The Xeons may not be the best bang for the buck when editing video. I think most Apple and Windows users agree that the PC I posted would work just fine for video editing. There is a similar thread on the Adobe forum.


Return to posts index

Lance Bachelder
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 7, 2017 at 5:36:53 pm

Hey Bob I'm hip I'm hip... I'm replying to this on my Win10 workstation which I use for Capture One and Photoshop because it's so much faster than my Macbook Pro. It's silly that Apple thinks we need/want a Xeon machine when there's all the great i7 and i8 multicore CPU's out there.

I love editing with FCPX and I need Pro Res deliverables so I will keep my MAcbook handy - I have an adpater that let's me output to my Sony UHD monitor at 60hz so all good for the occasional post gig.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 9:58:43 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I personally think the odds are 50/50 that they may never build the next Mac Pro, if iMac sales do well - both standard and Pro."

I tend to think it would be a waste of time in the year 2017 but then again Apple OS X is still using a Windows 95 paradigm in 2017. Go figure.

[Oliver Peters] "Plus, if current ads are any indication, there's certainly a contingent within Apple that believes the future of "computers" is in the iPad and/or maybe MacBooks. I"

Jobs thought the iPad would replace the computer but jobs did a very dumb thing by using a mobile CPU and a mobile OS for the iPad. Because of that the iPad will not run desktop programs.

Having said that we will soon see 6 core and 8 core i7 CPUs in the MS Surface Pro. Along with that Intel and AMD have a partnership and are making a integrated CPU/GPU/RAM processors that will supposedly take mobile computing to the next level. I imagine in another 2-3 years I will use a MS Surface Pro for all my computer needs and ditch my PC. I think I new Mac Pro will be a day late and a dollar short. Technology changes at an exponential rate but Apple computers do not.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/intel-squeezed-amd-graphics-chip-144800166.h...

Does Apple have an answer to the MS Surface Studio? If not Apple could go bankrupt like in the past. This time I am not sure if Microsoft would bail them out again for 120 million dollars. 2018 might be hard times for Apple but who knows for sure?


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 12:54:43 am

[andy patterson] "Does Apple have an answer to the MS Surface Studio? If not Apple could go bankrupt like in the past. "

Have you seen any of these in the wild in actual use? If so, in video-centric facilities? I see a number of Surface tablets, but not Studio. I DO see a shedload of iMacs ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 1:34:46 am

[Oliver Peters] "
Have you seen any of these in the wild in actual use? If so, in video-centric facilities?"


Who said anything about video facilities? The Studio is more for Graphic design (Illustrator & Photoshop). The Surface Studio would not be a wise investment for video editing. You can see people on YouTube using the Surface Studio. Even Leo Laporte (Apple Evangelist) bought one. He likes it. I used one. I liked it. They are pricey but the prices will drop and the performance will improve. Having said that Apple has nothing that will compete against the Surface Studio nor do they have anything to compete against a $1,400.00 gaming PC. Some will stay loyal to Apple others will invest their money else where.

It's over priced and under powered but it is still the most exciting computer he has used. The 28" touch screen works great in desktop mode.







Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 2:22:04 am

[andy patterson] "Who said anything about video facilities? The Studio is more for Graphic design (Illustrator & Photoshop). T"

Because this is primary a forum if video editors.

[andy patterson] "They are pricey but the prices will drop and the performance will improve. "

Aren’t you contracting your premise? You are basically saying an overpriced, underpowered Microsoft product will bankrupt Apple.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 3:21:34 am

[Oliver Peters] "[andy patterson] "They are pricey but the prices will drop and the performance will improve. "

Aren’t you contracting your premise? You are basically saying an overpriced, underpowered Microsoft product will bankrupt Apple."


An over priced and under powered PC is not the issues. MS created a new paradigm for interacting with the computer. You left that part of the equation out. That is what Apple has to worry about. For PC users Dell and Lenovo can copy the Surface Studio but OS X is stuck in a Windows 95 paradigm. I would like to get a Surface Studio but as of now they are to expensive for me. What will they sell for in 2020 and what will the specs be? The video link below might be worth watching.







Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 2:22:27 am

[Oliver Peters] "Have you seen any of these in the wild in actual use? If so, in video-centric facilities? I see a number of Surface tablets, but not Studio. I DO see a shedload of iMacs ☺"

I know a handful of production artists who use the Surface Studio along with the Surface Pro (storyboard artists, production designers, concept designers, texture artists). Not huge numbers, but definitely more than before. It seems like younger artists are more open to considering the possibility of being all PC or bi-platform... at least, that's what I'm seeing.

Shawn



Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 2:03:57 am

[andy patterson] "Does Apple have an answer to the MS Surface Studio? If not Apple could go bankrupt like in the past."

Apple has a market cap of $900 billion. The next closest tech company is Samsung at $300 billion. I don't think bankruptcy is on the immediate horizon.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 5, 2017 at 10:02:12 pm

[andy patterson] " What about Lenovo, Dell, MSI, Asus and HP? "

What about them? Are they about to launch new computers that people have been clamoring for for years?


[andy patterson] "It is up to the end users to boycott Apple until they offer the price/performance of the competition. Asus, MSI and Lenovo all have to be competitive or they will go bankrupt. Apple not so much."

The only time Apple has tried to price down to the competition they nearly went bankrupt (the Clone years). By not competing on specs alone Apple wisely avoid the race to the bottom that cratered the personal computer market. While Dell, HP, MSI, etc., are forced to compete mainly on price because they all get their main parts and OS from the same venders Apple markets a wholistic experience that can only be provided by them. Sony tried to do something similar with it's VIAO line but it wasn't sustainable.

[andy patterson] "why doesn't the new iMac Pro keyboard come with the touch bar? "

IIRC the touch bar is powered by an ARM CPU running iOS so putting that into a wireless keyboard probably isn't practical at this point in time.


Return to posts index

Don Scioli
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 12:41:24 am

Though not realistically related, but I believe Apple will build another Mac Pro with high end specs because it can and doesn't need to but wants the cred...just like Ferrari builds the crazy 700 horsepower La Ferrari, Porsche builds the 918, Lamborghini makes the Urus and Nike makes the $200 Air vapor Max. These are ridiculous products that nobody needs but continues to establish the makers core vision.


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 2:11:43 am

[Don Scioli] "These are ridiculous products that nobody needs but continues to establish the makers core vision."

The one difference with the Apple paradigm these days is that besides FCPX there really isn't a differentiating aspect to the product. The PC world surpassed the Apple product line in benchmarks quite awhile ago and most apps are platform agnostic so it becomes harder now to justify the added cost.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Eric Santiago
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 5:34:45 am

Speaking of buying a $17K system, has anyone ever had fun on the DELL site and see how high they can get a single workstation price up too ☺
I do this when I'm bored at work and need a chuckle.
I think I was at $88K at one point.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 3:47:55 pm

[Eric Santiago] "has anyone ever had fun on the DELL site and see how high they can get a single workstation price up too"

Since this is one of those usual Mac vs. PC debates, I have to say that the shopping experience on nearly every PC maker's website is one of the worst shopping experiences on the web. You can hardly find anything and what's there is hard to understand. Contrast that with buying Apple hardware on their website and it's easy to see why some folks are willing to pay a bit most, just for the more productive and pleasant experience. And if we are talking about name brands, mainstream PC makers, the cost is generally the same or more than that of the equivalent Mac.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:13:02 pm

This - exactly this. The Dell site is painful. The only one that isn't is the Boxx or Maxx website, but no UK local tech support makes them impossible for us.

No matter how cheap the hardware, I would never switch from FCPX and apple to PC and Edius/Resolve. I think this will likely be the case for many producers.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:40:18 pm

[Tom Sefton] "No matter how cheap the hardware, I would never switch from FCPX and apple to PC and Edius/Resolve."

Yep, cost difference between PC's and Macs and even benchmarks are pretty irrelevant for me as long as FCPX performs well and is reliable and so far it has been.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:07:56 pm

[Tom Sefton] "but no UK local tech support makes them impossible for us. "

Just out of curiosity, what kind of local tech support do you actually need?

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:32:10 pm

Probably not a whole lot for something supplied as an off the shelf product, but it would need importing and there would be difficulties with phone/remote support compared with a UK distributor.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 9:41:17 pm

It's surprising to hear that tech support would actually play a role in deciding on a system these days. Most technical issues can be dealt with through web searches or queries on forums like this one.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 11:00:54 pm

[greg janza] "It's surprising to hear that tech support would actually play a role in deciding on a system these days. Most technical issues can be dealt with through web searches or queries on forums like this one."

We depend on our machines to work non-stop. I like that I could call HP today and they will show up at my office tomorrow with spare parts to repair a machine under warranty.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 8:50:57 am

Exactly. One of the 2013 Mac pros that we have was rendering a job for a week at a time. The whole project took over 15 weeks just for encoding.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 11:06:19 am

[Tom Sefton] "Exactly. One of the 2013 Mac pros that we have was rendering a job for a week at a time. The whole project took over 15 weeks just for encoding."

Crikey!

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:41:21 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Eric Santiago] "has anyone ever had fun on the DELL site and see how high they can get a single workstation price up too"

Since this is one of those usual Mac vs. PC debates, I have to say that the shopping experience on nearly every PC maker's website is one of the worst shopping experiences on the web. You can hardly find anything and what's there is hard to understand."


Sure, some sites are certainly better than others. HP and Dell are terrible IMO, whereas Puget Systems and Bold Data systems are easy to navigate, and they make machine configuration fairly straightforward. Even better, companies like Puget Systems and Boxx make it easy to talk to a human about which configurations might be most beneficial to the buyer.


[Oliver Peters] "
Contrast that with buying Apple hardware on their website and it's easy to see why some folks are willing to pay a bit most, just for the more productive and pleasant experience. And if we are talking about name brands, mainstream PC makers, the cost is generally the same or more than that of the equivalent Mac.

- Oliver
"


Doesn't having limited configurations make this much easier though? Your choices are basically between which two CPU models, which one of two GPU models, how much RAM and how much storage, right? Not knocking it, but that just seems an easier lift. That said, the last PC I purchased was through Puget Systems, and it only took a few minutes to configure the system I wanted - but, I'm a long time PC user and I've built a number of computers over the years, so maybe someone with less experience configuring workstations would have a more difficult time... hard to say.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:00:49 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Speaking of buying a $17K system, has anyone ever had fun on the DELL site and see how high they can get a single workstation price up too ☺
I do this when I'm bored at work and need a chuckle.
I think I was at $88K at one point."


Sure... what do you get for 88k though? ☺

Shawn



Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:09:29 pm

for $88,000, it better come with one important feature - CLIENTS !

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 4:47:50 pm

[Bob Zelin] "for $88,000, it better come with one important feature - CLIENTS !"

But, if it cuts your render times down from days per frame to hours per frame, it might just be worth the cost. ☺ I would still be curious to know what's in the $88k machine...

Shawn



Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 6:17:17 pm

for $88,000 ?

This is the Silverdraft Flame workstation for Autodesk Flame applications -
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api...

$23,500

this is the Silverdraft Davinci Resolve workstation
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1297201-REG/silverdraft_silver33_bas...
$12,7500

this is the Silverdraft After Effects Workstation
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1297199-REG/silverdraft_silver11_ado...
$10,500

and a Silverdraft Resolve "blown out" workstation for $33,000
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1297197-REG/silverdraft_silver55_pow...

So you tell me exactly what is an $88,000 workstation for. This is like saying "I can't use any shared storage system except Quantum, and it is SO worth the $200 - $300,000 that we spend for it". My reply to this - that' just stupid.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 7:20:18 pm

[Bob Zelin] "So you tell me exactly what is an $88,000 workstation for. "

VFX, visualization and scientific simulation. It's rarified air to be sure - I personally have never worked on anything more powerful than a 4 CPU machine with 96GB of RAM, but there are use cases that justify the need for even more powerful machines. I imagine that rendering out 8k stereo VR videos could fit into this category. Again, I would be curious to know what's inside the $88k workstation... a machine with 8 NVidia M600s alone would set you back over 30k... add 4 CPUs and maxed out ram (1TB), that's possibly another $20k assuming you build it yourself. Does the $88k machine include some sort of premium support and software licensing?

[Bob Zelin] "This is like saying "I can't use any shared storage system except Quantum, and it is SO worth the $200 - $300,000 that we spend for it". My reply to this - that' just stupid. "

I don't think it's a question not being able to work on anything less than a computer with less than a terabyte of RAM, 4 CPUs and 8 GPUs, it's that for some work, these configurations make sense and are less expensive in the long run than building or sending projects out to a render farm. Most of my heavy 3D work is done on a workstation that could be done on a $3,000.00 laptop... in the long run though, it would make my projects a lot more expensive to produce.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 9:08:36 pm

I edit on Premiere at normal HD, no 4k, usually exporting in H264. I'd prefer AS11, but the Tricaster we use can't cope with that (rubbish things, Tricasters) .

For many years I upgraded my PCs every 18 months or so, when things seemed a bit slow. I'm a big fan of Asus, so generally an Asus motherboard and GeForce GPU (with CUDA of course). Now I find I haven't needed a major upgrade for a while, which still surprises me. I'm not broke, I can afford any sensible current stuff, but I don't spend what don't need to spend. The thing runs fast enough.

It's been so long that I needed Belarc Advisor to find out what I currently have -
3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-2500
ASUSTeK Computer INC. P8Z68-V LE Rev X.0x
8174 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960

So for us ordinary people doing ordinary stuff, I don't think you need a Ferrari equivalent.

......and who needs support, in the UK or anywhere? My gear has largely just worked for years. I upgraded the GPU a while back, mostly because I fancied moving up from the GeForce 460. The system worked pretty much the same afterwards. The new GPU came from a UK supplier in a couple of days and the switch took a couple of minutes. No special importing required.

Bernie


Return to posts index

Alan Okey
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 7, 2017 at 2:26:13 am

[Bob Zelin] "This is the Silverdraft Flame workstation"

That thing looks godawful. If I were spending $23K on a Flame workstation, I'd make damn sure that it didn't look like the rich neighbor's kid's tacky gaming PC.


Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 7, 2017 at 5:06:10 pm

In the UK the processor and the two GeForce GPUs in the Silverdraft Davinci Resolve workstation cost a total of £2053 inc tax, which is the equivalent of $2756. The glitzy toy that B and H are selling costs $12,750. Hmmmm. I wonder how much mark up is in that price?

Bernie


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 7, 2017 at 5:23:04 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "In the UK the processor and the two GeForce GPUs in the Silverdraft Davinci Resolve workstation cost a total of £2053 inc tax, which is the equivalent of $2756. The glitzy toy that B and H are selling costs $12,750. Hmmmm. I wonder how much mark up is in that price?

Bernie"


Agreed, it might be more instructive to look at a machine from a more reputable integrator. If you're going to pay in the tens of thousands for a computer, it's good to know exactly what you're paying for.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/genesis/II/customize.php

BTW, these folks have excellent customer service... if anyone is in the market. ☺

Shawn



Return to posts index

Bernard Newnham
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 9:43:08 am

I see that Nvidia have announced a new consumer GPU, the Titan V at $2999 . That should satisfy the "only the fastest and most expensive will do" crowd. Though not if they have a Mac

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/8/16750326/nvidia-titan-v-announced-specs-...

Bernie


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 10:52:35 am

https://twitter.com/anticipate_m/status/937420521548984321

If you have thunderbolt 3 and an egpu it might do

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 11:05:16 am

[Tom Sefton] "https://twitter.com/anticipate_m/status/937420521548984321

If you have thunderbolt 3 and an egpu it might do
"


Or a 2010 Mac Pro :)

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 11:24:52 am

[Tom Sefton] "If you have thunderbolt 3 and an egpu it might do"

I think the Titan might hit a bottleneck with Thunderbolt 3 but maybe not. If the Titian doesn't hit a bottleneck the Volta GPUs probably will. There is a reason to have PCIE slots. I imagine Canon Lake or Ice Lake will offer PCIE 4.0.


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 5:27:47 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "I see that Nvidia have announced a new consumer GPU, the Titan V at $2999 . That should satisfy the "only the fastest and most expensive will do" crowd. Though not if they have a Mac

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/8/16750326/nvidia-titan-v-announced-specs-.....

Bernie"


3D/motion graphics artists are jumping to Windows exactly for developments like this. With the rise of the relatively inexpensive GPU renderers (Octane, Redshift, etc), it's just foolish not to want this kind of performance at this price point. I image folks running Resolve are making similar decisions.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 6:25:59 pm

[Shawn Miller] "3D/motion graphics artists are jumping to Windows exactly for developments like this."

Those artists - speaking of 3D animators, mainly - have historically always been on Windows and not Mac. And SGI is years past.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 8, 2017 at 7:17:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Shawn Miller] "3D/motion graphics artists are jumping to Windows exactly for developments like this."

Those artists - speaking of 3D animators, mainly - have historically always been on Windows and not Mac. And SGI is years past.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com"


That was more or less true up until about a decade ago - but with the popularity of cross-platform applications like Cinema 4D, Modo, Maya, Z-brush, etc. the landscape became a lot more diverse... maybe 80% Mac/Windows and 20% Linux (from my observation at least). There seems to have been a fairly steady migration of Mac users to Windows for the past five or six years though, mostly due to Apple's reluctance to update the Mac Pro to something appropriate for CPU hungry tasks like lighting, rendering, simulations and large scene reconstructions. More recently, the popularity of GPU based renderers (Octane, Redshift, etc.) have been enticing artists towards really powerful but inexpensive graphics cards from Nvidia... or, at least that what I've personally observed.

Shawn



Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: The new Mac Pro VS MSI?
on Dec 6, 2017 at 9:26:03 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "[andy patterson] " What about Lenovo, Dell, MSI, Asus and HP? "

What about them? Are they about to launch new computers that people have been clamoring for for years?"


Everyone was comparing Apple to Apple. iMac VS Mac Pro. I think it is good to see what the competition has to offer. Is there really anything that great about the release of new Apple products? All Macs and PCs will get the same hardware.



[Andrew Kimery] " While Dell, HP, MSI, etc., are forced to compete mainly on price because they all get their main parts and OS from the same venders Apple markets a wholistic experience that can only be provided by them. Sony tried to do something similar with it's VIAO line but it wasn't sustainable.."

The Sony VIAOs were just Windows PCs. Sun Micro System and SGI were more like Apple but in the end Apple and Windows PCs use the same hardware.



[Andrew Kimery] "[andy patterson] "why doesn't the new iMac Pro keyboard come with the touch bar? "

IIRC the touch bar is powered by an ARM CPU running iOS so putting that into a wireless keyboard probably isn't practical at this point in time."


I am hip to the ARM CPU. I think it is odd that Apple forces users do edit differently depending on the which compter they use. Apple must figure the touchbar is kind of gimmicky and that Apple users are not going to pay extra money for the gimmicky touchbar features.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]