APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

This video is what the forum is all about

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andy patterson
This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 7:13:14 pm

I want to thank the Creative Cow for having this forum. It is a good place filled with interesting information. Having said that this forum is titled Apple Final Cut Pro Debates for a reason. This forum is not for the glorification of FCPX. It is a place where we can discuss the merits of FCPX and also put an end to some confusion. If a bad demonstration has been posted on the creativecow it is fair to correct the inaccuracies. It is the only way we can all learn, get better and understand what the competition has to offer. With any NLE you must use the correct correct editing techniques in order to get the desired result. When a person uses the wrong editing technique in FCPX, Premiere or DR should we consider the software inept and useless or should we as editors be able to recognize user error when presented? Having said that I think some people have a hard time recognizing user error.














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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 7:50:52 pm

Nice, shows how much easier it is to move clips around in FCPX, thanks for posting!


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Tom Sefton
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 7:53:15 pm

Yeah the audio editing in fcpx looks miles easier too.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 8:27:26 pm

[Tom Sefton] "Yeah the audio editing in fcpx looks miles easier too."

Could you please perform all the audio edits I did with Premiere Pro using FCPX. I want you to grab several audio clips in the middle of a track and also grab sever other audio clips simultaneously. Keep in mind I did not need to lock down audio tracks or use connected clips. Having said that please make a demo of FCPX editing audio like I did from 3:30-4:30 in the video below. I want to see how much easier it is to perform those edits using FCPX. Thanks : )








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Tom Sefton
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 10:24:09 pm

Andy, I don't really give a shit. You're just too easy to wind up.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 11:35:56 pm

[Tom Sefton] "Andy, I don't really give a shit. You're just too easy to wind up."

I take it that is your way of saying FCPX cannot edit the audio as easy as you had implied. Am I correct?

I also think you are confused about the purpose of the video. I thought Brian wanted to know how to edit more efficient with Premiere Pro. Brian thought Jesus's method was the best method so I took the time to make a video showing that is incorrect. As of now I don't think Brian thought I could edit more proficient than Jesus and I don't think he really wanted to know how to edit more efficient with Premiere Pro. In fact I think he enjoys bad mouthing Premiere Pro. Supposedly many people here at the cow use both Premiere Pro and FCPX but the FCPX users are not stating the obvious like below.

"You are correct Andy Jesus did not use the most efficient editing method when using Premiere Pro. Watching Jesus edit with Premiere Pro was like watching a three year old play with crayons".

It should be very obvious but I don't think FCPX users in general are interested in other NLE. FCPX users do not want to admit the demonstration was sabotaged. I can easily see it is user error but FCPX users cannot? In fact many FCPX think Jesus's demonstration is a good video. Having said that I think many FCPX users like demonstrations that glorify FCPX while sabotaging Premiere Pro or Avid. It is odd that many FCPX claim they are picked on when I see much more hate for Avid and Premiere Pro. I also don't think FCPX users want honest discussions about other NLE. I think they just like to glorify FCPX. I am not saying there are not any FCPX that are interested in the competition but not many as the responses for this thread prove other wise. For the record I don't think you will see Avid or Premiere Pro editors purposely trying to sabotage FCPX by making FCPX seem hard to use than it actually is.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 8:10:05 pm

[Steve Connor] "Nice, shows how much easier it is to move clips around in FCPX, thanks for posting!"

I never stated Premiere Pro was better. I did make a deal with Brian that I can perform the same edits much easier than Jesus did. Keep in mind Jesus never completed either task using Premiere Pro and let the views think it was impossible to do using Premiere Pro. I was able to do all the edits very easy. Brian has to admit Jesus was not using the correct editing technique when using Premiere Pro. That is the main purpose of the video. It is not to say FCPX is better or worse than Premiere Pro. You have to accept the video for it's intended purpose. Having said that did I not edit much more efficient with Premiere Pro than Jesus?


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 9, 2017 at 8:41:18 pm

I think FCPX and Premiere Pro are both good editing systems. The purpose of the video was made to show Brian that Jesus did not use the best editing techniques when using Premiere Pro. Jesus was unable to perform either task after using Premiere Pro for well over six minutes. I was able to do all the tasks fairly easy. Could a FCPX user explain why that is? Could it be Jesus wanted to highlight FCPX and simultaneously sabotage Premiere Pro? Is there anyone who thinks Jesus used the best editing methods to achieve the desired result? That is what the video response for Brian is all about. It is not to pit FCPX against Premiere Pro but instead it is to show that other editing methods can give a much better results. Learn to accept the purpose of the video as opposed to wanting to pit FCPX against Premiere Pro and the forums will become much more educational and much more beneficial for everyone.


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Neil Goodman
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 1:42:57 am

I agree it is painful to watch Jesus try and edit in a track based timeline. That said moving clips around is definitely easier in FCPX if all your connections are setup properly to begin with.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 3:18:23 am

[Neil Goodman] "I agree it is painful to watch Jesus try and edit in a track based timeline. That said moving clips around is definitely easier in FCPX if all your connections are setup properly to begin with."

Thanks for your honesty and I agree with your comments. I think FCPX's trackless system does have merit but I don't think there is a need to sabotage Premiere Pro in order to demonstrate how to edit using FCPX. I know several FCPX users have posted Jesus's video in the creativecow forum and many FCPX editors hailed Jesus's video as the holy grail as a good demonstration video between FCPX and Premiere Pro but perhaps that will come to an end.


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Claude Lyneis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 4:05:14 am

I find this discussion rather tiresome and while Andy may have a point that the initial demonstration was flawed, I think the FCPX approach to connected clips and the magnetic timeline allows more freedom with less restraints and preparation to move things around than PPro. I don't think these specific demonstrations demonstrate that one is better than the other in any broad sense. Maybe it because I understand the "rules" in X and not so much in PPro. When I used FCP7, I really hated all the locking tracks down when moving video around and seeing audio get whacked out of place.
OK, I will leave this thread alone now.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 4:33:16 am

[Claude Lyneis] " I don't think these specific demonstrations demonstrate that one is better than the other in any broad sense."

I agree but I was not trying to say Premiere Pro is better than FCPX. I have never stated that. I was demonstrating that I can edit much more efficient when using Premiere Pro than Jesus. Will Brian admit that? Who knows? Having said that many others felt as though it is a good demonstration of FCPX being much better than Premiere Pro. Jesus states FCPX is better than Premiere Pro several times in his demonstration.

[Claude Lyneis] "Maybe it because I understand the "rules" in X and not so much in PPro."

I would agree.

[Claude Lyneis] " When I used FCP7, I really hated all the locking tracks down when moving video around and seeing audio get whacked out of place."

I never locked down a single track in my video demonstrations. I made my video to show that Premiere Pro has gone beyond the FCP 7 paradigm that Jesus used.

[Claude Lyneis] "Andy may have a point that the initial demonstration was flawed, I think the FCPX approach to connected clips and the magnetic timeline allows more freedom with less restraints and preparation to move things around than PPro."

FCPX will have some advantages and Premiere Pro will have some advantages. I am glad to see people stating Jesus's video had some serious flaws. As I stated I made the video to help Brian edit more efficient when using Premiere Pro but I don't think he really wants to know how to use Premiere Pro efficiently like he had led me to believe. Perhaps the video can be helpful to others.


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Tony West
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 4:32:39 am

Andy, that's the wrong section of the video. I was talking about 2:37 of his video when he says "we do this....I know the right stuff" Then he pops back over.

He did it the wrong way first, then he came back and slid it without moving the audio out of sync that was on the same track.

You put section 3:00 in your video and said that was what I was talking about. That's fake news Andy hahahaha
So you should edit that part.

Then you go on in your video to repeat my question about if you are in the select tool or the position tool more but you never ANSWER my question. You tried to avoid it by asking anther question.

I don't think you understood why I asked the question in the first place (Robyn figured out but you didn't).
So here's another chance for you

1. When you edit in X are you in the select tool more often or the position tool?

2. Why do you think I asked you that question? Bonus


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 5:58:52 am

[Tony West] "Andy, that's the wrong section of the video. I was talking about 2:37 of his video when he says "we do this....I know the right stuff" Then he pops back over."

At 2:37 of his video he is setting up the false paradigm of what separates a linear editing system from a NLE.

[Tony West] "He did it the wrong way first, then he came back and slid it without moving the audio out of sync that was on the same track."

I think you are confusing the section tool with the slide tool. The slide tool will look like this " I<->I "when selected and make use the Y key. I never seen anything other than the icons for the ripple tool and the position tool when Jesus was using Premiere Pro. You can slide things around with the position tool but it will not work that efficient for the type of edit Jesus wanted to do. Having said that if Jesus was aware of the slide tool then you would have to admit Jesus sabotaged the Premiere Pro tutorial from the very start.

[Tony West] "Then you go on in your video to repeat my question about if you are in the select tool or the position tool more but you never ANSWER my question. You tried to avoid it by asking anther question."

What is your point? If I open up Premiere Pro or FCPX and the cutting tool is always engaged by default it would not matter. It only takes one second to select the trim tool or position tool in either program. Having said that what matters is if the NLE can do the edit that is needed and that you know the correct method to do it correctly. Both Jesus and I had the exact same default tools yet I did the edit in seconds while he was unable to complete the task after several minutes. Why do you think that happened? He used the ripple tool and I used the slide tool. The default tool is irrelevant and asking what tool we both used is irrelevant. I could use the incorrect tool for FCPX 80% of the time like Jesus did while editing in Premiere Pro but if I did that you would blame it on the user and not the NLE. Sometimes you have to blame the editor and not the NLE. Are you willing to place blame on Jesus? That is the obvious question that needs to be asked.

[Tony West] "I don't think you understood why I asked the question in the first place (Robyn figured out but you didn't).
So here's another chance for you"


I think the problem is you and Robin think there is some significance to your question but I don't. As I sated you could ask Jesus what tool he used the most when editing with Premiere Pro but what would be the point if he is using the wrong tool? What if I say I use the blade tool the most when using FCPX? Why wasn't that an option?

[Tony West] "1. When you edit in X are you in the select tool more often or the position tool?

2. Why do you think I asked you that question? Bonus"


I think you asked because you think there is some significance and I think I proved there is not. Having said that I use the positions tool, the trim tool, the blade tool and the select tool about the same. Keep in mind I am just testing FCPX to see what it can and cannot do as opposed to editing a project. As I stated earlier it makes no difference what tool you use the most as long as use the correct tool when needed and choosing the correct tool in FCXP and Premiere is very easy. Having said that I am glad to see you joined in the discussion.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 6:21:45 pm

Andy, in my use of FCPx I use the position tool 5% to 10% of the time. It's the tool I use the least. That is the big difference between FPCx and PPro or FCP7.

[andy patterson] "Having said that I use the positions tool, the trim tool, the blade tool and the select tool about the same. Keep in mind I am just testing FCPX to see what it can and cannot do as opposed to editing a project."

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
Mac Pro 3.5MHz 6-Core Late 2013
FCP X


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 12:05:17 pm

As usual, how to settle matters in under 30 secs as opposed to 8+ tedious minutesโ€ฆ







โ€ฆ be it FCP 7 or Premiere, same difference. Nuff said.


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Andy Field
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 6:50:26 pm

I think we can all agree the real question here is "What would Jesus do?"

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 7:51:29 pm

[Andy Field] "I think we can all agree the real question here is "What would Jesus do?""

That is funny : )


You are correct with your response. It is about using the most efficient editing method but some people want to make it a FCPX VS Premiere Pro battle.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 7:56:55 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "As usual, how to settle matters in under 30 secs as opposed to 8+ tedious minutesโ€ฆ"

That video shows how to edit the whole chunk of audio and video together (It can be done better) as opposed to moving one small audio and video track. Having said that why was Jesus unable to complete any of the edits after six minutes of failure? That is the reason I made my video not to say Premiere Pro is better than FCPX. All I can say is thank you for posting Robin you are proving my point that Jesus made Premiere Pro seem much worse than it actually is. There are many editing tasks I can do faster with Premiere Pro than FCPX. Having said that Robin please mimic all the edits I did with Premiere Pro (in the video link below) from 3:30=4:30 using FCPX. I will be waiting to see your video demo.







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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 9:26:49 pm

[andy patterson] " There are many editing tasks I can do faster with Premiere Pro than FCPX."

Yes, you can edit faster in an NLE you know very well as opposed to one that you don't


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 2:15:23 am

[Steve Connor] "[andy patterson] " There are many editing tasks I can do faster with Premiere Pro than FCPX."

Yes, you can edit faster in an NLE you know very well as opposed to one that you don't"


Let my clarify. There are some everyday editing tasks that I can do faster in Premiere Pro than you could do using FCPX.

Keep in mind the collaborative workflow of Avid is why Avid is still used. For some people collaboration is a must have more so than a trackless paradigm. I have nothing against FCPX but I do think some FCPX users over hype FCPX at times as the best thing ever created. FCPX does have some merit but it is not the best solution for everyone even though some FCPX users would tell you otherwise.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 9:49:58 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Sep 11, 2017 at 9:52:40 am

[andy patterson] "That video shows how to edit the whole chunk of audio and video together (It can be done better) as opposed to moving one small audio and video track."

In other words you didn't grasp the first thing about what was going on there. Oh well. Guess one has to be an actual editor to get it.


[andy patterson] "There are many editing tasks I can do faster with Premiere Pro than FCPX."

Yeah, well it's no one's fault but your own that you don't know the first thing about using X efficiently. But still somehow think you can be a judge of matters as a whole. Always fun to watch. In a cringe-y kind of way.


[andy patterson] "Robin please mimic all the edits I did with Premiere Pro"

Er, yeah. No. Unlike you, I have nothing to prove, nor some bizarre agenda. I have actual work to do and no time for some jejune, self-important YouTube wars, thanks.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 8:20:29 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "[andy patterson] "That video shows how to edit the whole chunk of audio and video together (It can be done better) as opposed to moving one small audio and video track."

In other words you didn't grasp the first thing about what was going on there. Oh well. Guess one has to be an actual editor to get it."


You cannot grasp what is going on here. My video was made to demonstrate to Brian that editing in Premiere Pro is not as difficult as Jesus led people to believe in his demonstration. That is the purpose of the video. My video did just that. My video was not a FCPX VS Premiere Pro video. You are trying to make it a FCPX VS Premiere Pro video but it is not. Address the real issues as opposed to making strawman arguments. Jesus was unable to perform any edits after six minutes. I did them in seconds. The video you posted helps proves that the track based paradigm of FCP 7 can make the edits much easier than Jesus led people to believe but I guess you would have to be an actual editor to realize Jesus deliberately made Premiere Pro seem much harder to use than it actually is.


[Robin S. Kurz] "
[andy patterson] "There are many editing tasks I can do faster with Premiere Pro than FCPX."

Yeah, well it's no one's fault but your own that you don't know the first thing about using X efficiently. But still somehow think you can be a judge of matters as a whole. Always fun to watch. In a cringe-y kind of way."


Let me clarify. There are editing tasks I can complete faster using Premiere Pro than you could using FCPX. Having said that if I cannot edit efficient using FCPX it is user error but if Jesus cannot edit proficient using Premiere Pro you blame the software. How convenient the old double standard can be until someone calls out the double standard when it is being used. Keep in mind the editing techniques are the focus of my video. All your responses help prove my point.


[Robin S. Kurz] "
[andy patterson] "Robin please mimic all the edits I did with Premiere Pro"

Er, yeah. No. Unlike you, I have nothing to prove, nor some bizarre agenda. I have actual work to do and no time for some jejune, self-important YouTube wars, thanks."



If you were as busy as you claim you would not be posting in the Cow at all. I don't doubt you tried to mimic my audio edits and found it to be a real pain in the butt and very time consuming using FCPX. If it were easy you would have made the video and be rubbing my nose in it by now.

Having said that can you answer the real question instead of avoiding it? The real issues is why was Jesus unable to perform the edits using Premiere Pro when I was able to do them in a matter of seconds? Please explain why that happened Robin. Once again Robin the issue is not FCPX VS Premiere Pro the issues is did Jesus sabotage Premiere Pro in his demonstration?

For the record showing videos of of people performing the edits using the old track based paradigm of FCP 7 lets everyone know that Jesus editing with a track based system is like watching a three year old play with crayons and helps prove my point. Jesus editing techniques are the focus not FCPX VS Premiere Pro. Having said that care to post anymore videos Robin now that you know the real purpose of my video? The purpose of the video is not hard to figure out. For the record others picked up on it right away. Why didn't you?


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 6:49:40 am

[andy patterson] "but if Jesus cannot edit proficient using Premiere Pro you blame the software."

Feel free to point to any and every time I said or did that. Oh, rightโ€ฆ misrepresentation and insinuation are your thing. I forgot. Never mind.


[andy patterson] "care to post anymore videos Robin"

Reading comprehension, on the other hand, clearly is not.


[andy patterson] "If you were as busy as you claim you would not be posting in the Cow at all. "

Right. Everyone here are just a bunch of unemployed basement dwellers. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

Certainly a painful but fitting confession and self-indictment either way. ๐Ÿ˜„๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ

Again, I have better, more intellectually demanding things to do than this, sorry. Like clip my toenails. They're really overdue. Cheers.


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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 8:21:44 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "Again, I have better, more intellectually demanding things to do than this, sorry. Like clip my toenails."

We donโ€™t need a video of that Robin!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:13:30 am

[Steve Connor] "We donโ€™t need a video of that Robin!"

Damnโ€ฆ had it all ready to go, too. ๐Ÿ˜ž


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:09:16 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "[andy patterson] "but if Jesus cannot edit proficient using Premiere Pro you blame the software."

Feel free to point to any and every time I said or did that.



Your wish is my command Robin. I think the link below might refresh your memory.

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/91325

[Robin S. Kurz] "Quite possibly the best, comprehensive and astute comparison and highlighting of old and new that I have seen to date. (both live and now "on tape") Bravo Jesรบs. Well done!"

Above is a quote from you about Jesus's demonstration video. Can you now admit it was user error or do you still blame Premiere Pro?


[Robin S. Kurz] "[andy patterson] "If you were as busy as you claim you would not be posting in the Cow at all. "

Right. Everyone here are just a bunch of unemployed basement dwellers. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

Certainly a painful but fitting confession and self-indictment either way. ๐Ÿ˜„๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ

Again, I have better, more intellectually demanding things to do than this, sorry. Like clip my toenails. They're really overdue. Cheers."



I never claimed anyone was a basement dweller so stop using strawman arguments. Having said that the fact that you keep responding and you also managed to find time to search the internet for a FCPX VS FCP 7 video tells a different story. Sounds to me like you have the time but not the skills considering FCPX allows you to edit at light speed. Do we blame FCPX or the editor?


[Robin S. Kurz] " Oh, rightโ€ฆ misrepresentation and insinuation are your thing. I forgot. Never mind."

I think others might see you as the pot calling the kettle black. As everyone can tell there was no misrepresentation or insinuation. You did blame the NLE (Premiere Pro) and not the editor (Jesus) when it was in fact user error.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what YOU'RE all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 4:14:43 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Sep 13, 2017 at 4:15:54 pm

[andy patterson] "Your wish is my command Robin."

Then I wish for you to urgently brush up on your reading comprehension and interpretation skills. Very very intenselyโ€ฆ and look up the word "blame" (I understand that that's a tough one for you) while you're at it...

Abracadabra.


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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 9:30:06 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "As usual, how to settle matters in under 30 secs as opposed to 8+ tedious minutesโ€ฆ
"


I'm not sure everyone is even talking about the same 'matters' on this thread so it's never going to be settled.


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David Mathis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 9:35:44 pm

Perhaps this might settle it once and for all!
๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜œ






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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 9:37:31 pm

[David Mathis] "Perhaps this might settle it once and for all!
๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜œ
"


Perfect - let that be an end to it!


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Claude Lyneis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 10, 2017 at 10:29:08 pm

Now that was a fun video to watch.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 10:01:51 am

[David Mathis] "Perhaps this might settle it once and for all!"

Well, it certainly does for ME! ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ

๐Ÿ˜„

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training fรผr dich!


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Tony West
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 11:47:52 am







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Robin S. Kurz
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 11:52:01 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Sep 11, 2017 at 11:54:52 am

omgโ€ฆ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

SO good and SO on the money.

2 ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿผ


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 7:01:54 pm

Once again Tony you and Robin are proving my point. I never stated it was easier using Premiere Pro. I had told Brian Jesus was making Premiere Pro seem much harder to use than it really is. Brian thought Jesus video was a good demonstration of Premiere Pro and Brian thought no one could edit any faster than Jesus using Premiere Pro. Did I not prove Brian wrong? Does your FCP 7 video not prove Brian wrong as well? You and Robin keep avoiding the real issues. Even with FCP 7 it only took a matter of seconds to complete the edit (could have been done better). Jesus took six minutes and never completed any of the edits using Premiere Pro. Could you please respond to why that happened Tony? I could use the wrong tool when editing with FCPX and take 3 minutes to complete the edit instead of 3seconds but you would blame it on user error not FCPX. When a person cannot complete the edit using Premiere Pro you blame the software. Why is that?

Tony, why is it so hard for you address the real issue and admit Jesus sabotaged Premiere Pro? Other people admit Jesus messed up so I don't care if you cannot bring yourself to admit that or not. The bottom line is no FCPX users can post Jesus's demonstration video as an accurate depiction of Premiere Pro. I know a lot of FCPX users like Jesus's video but it has now been debunked.

On a side note I notice you made the video real quick but you didn't show FCPX editing the audio tracks as efficiently as I did using Premiere Pro. You only want to show videos were FCPX has an advantage. Why not post a video where Premiere Pro has an advantage? Try editing audio in FCPX like I did using Premiere Pro from 3:30-4:30. Seems as though no FCPX users wants to perform those edits using FCPX. Why is that Tony? As I stated FCPX does have merit but it is not the end all and be all NLE.







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Brian Seegmiller
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 9:22:02 pm

Andy, In on sentence you said, "I have a new video up showing that I can move audio and video clips much easier than Jesus using Premiere Pro" and then the next you said, "I am not saying it is easier than using FCPX nor did I ever" Which is it?


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 11:07:34 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "Andy, In on sentence you said, "I have a new video up showing that I can move audio and video clips much easier than Jesus using Premiere Pro" and then the next you said, "I am not saying it is easier than using FCPX nor did I ever" Which is it?"

Which is it? Stop trying to wiggle out of this one Brian. You wanted me to show that Jesus did not use the most effective editing techniques while editing with Premiere Pro. My video did just that. I completed both edits in seconds while Jesus never completed the edits.

I never once stated Premiere Pro was better than FCPX nor will I ever. I simply reminded you of that fact. Having said that not only did I provide a video that demonstrates Jesus did not use the best editing techniques but Tony and Robin also provided videos showing other people can edit using tracks much better than Jesus making Jesus's demonstration pure BS. You claimed Jesus's video was a good video remember? You even posted it in the cow. You are the reasons this thread was even started in the first place. You even claimed you wanted me to make the video so you could edit with Premiere Pro better.

You could simply say "thanks for posting the video Andy I admit Jesus's video was not that great and very misleading"


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 3:46:35 pm

Andy, Thanks for showing how to edit more efficiently than Jesus.

1. Jesus was not that efficient than you using the tools he did in PP.
2. You showed how to edit more efficient than Jesus did with the right tools.
3. I did not challenge you to edit faster, but to edit without messing up the timeline. You did.

HOWEVER,
1. IMO, FCP X is still more efficient than PP.
2. You still have to select clips and group them to move them. FCP X connections does this for you.
3. When moving video and audio clips around, other audio or video clips may be in the way. In PP you can drag video and audio clips up or down to create more tracks but then you have to manage those tracks. FCP X audio roles make this task EASIER.

4. Like you said you need to choose the right tool for the job.

That tool for me is FCP X!

Maybe once you play around with FCP X you just might have that AHAH moment. Once I got it and then had to edit on PP it was like going back in time.

Good luck.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:01:43 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "Andy, Thanks for showing how to edit more efficiently than Jesus."

No problem.

[Brian Seegmiller] "HOWEVER,
1. IMO, FCP X is still more efficient than PP.
2. You still have to select clips and group them to move them. FCP X connections does this for you.
3. When moving video and audio clips around, other audio or video clips may be in the way. In PP you can drag video and audio clips up or down to create more tracks but then you have to manage those tracks. FCP X audio roles make this task EASIER."


Both of our demos were really just a dog and pony show.

[Brian Seegmiller] "
4. Like you said you need to choose the right tool for the job."


That is correct.

[Brian Seegmiller] "That tool for me is FCP X!"

To each his own.

[Brian Seegmiller] "Maybe once you play around with FCP X you just might have that AHAH moment. Once I got it and then had to edit on PP it was like going back in time."

FCPX has some merit but the Fisher Price like GUI is hard to overcome. FCPX needs more customization before the GUI can be 100% efficient. I also love using my BMD Intensity Shuttle. People have posted that with the newest release all 3rd party hardware is working with FCPX. That is good to hear. I will have a FCPX GUI video soon as I think that really is the Achilles' Heel of FCPX . I will also clear up the confusion about the performance issues between FCPX and Premiere Pro.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 14, 2017 at 2:19:51 am

[andy patterson] "FCPX has some merit but the Fisher Price like GUI is hard to overcome."

And there goes any shred of credibility on the subject.

[andy patterson] "I will have a FCPX GUI video soon as I think that really is the Achilles' Heel of FCPX ."

Why? Pontificating on "GUI" with no apparent understanding of UI or UX is a waste of everyone's time and bandwidth.

[andy patterson] "I will also clear up the confusion about the performance issues between FCPX and Premiere Pro"

Magic 8 Ball says "expectations are not high."

Perhaps we can revisit the topic of Premiere Pro's fiddly and cumbersome user interface, concurrent with a course in basic grammar and usage.

Cheers. ๐Ÿ™‰๐Ÿ™€๐Ÿ˜ณ


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 11, 2017 at 11:21:26 pm

Disregard that last comment by me. I misread Andy's quoted text.


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greg janza
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 3:18:41 am

I applaud Andy's attempt at setting the record straight about Premiere's ease of use but overall this is a no win situation due to the fact that the original video was a sales pitch and not a real comparison of the two programs.

And in my mind this forum is really just a distraction from reality with some highly entertaining but factually dubious posts.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Canโ€™t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 6:17:36 am

[greg janza] "I applaud Andy's attempt at setting the record straight about Premiere's ease of use but overall this is a no win situation due to the fact that the original video was a sales pitch and not a real comparison of the two programs."

Thanks. I seen that video of Jesus's get posted in the Cow here and there. I would not have made a response if Brian had not challenged me to edit faster than Jesus. I originally made my video because I thought Brian wanted to learn how edit with Premiere Pro more proficient. I agree with your comments and I thought everyone knew it was a dog and pony show/sales pitch. Apparently some people did not know that. Having said that I don' think the Jesus's video will be used as a benchmark between FCPX and Premiere Pro anymore.

[greg janza] "And in my mind this forum is really just a distraction from reality with some highly entertaining but factually dubious posts."

I'm hip : )


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Tony West
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 2:06:43 pm

[andy patterson] "I had told Brian Jesus was making Premiere Pro seem much harder to use than it really is."

He was in some sections, but his main point was that in track NLE's you are having to switch tools more often then you are in X

In X people just sit in that "select tool" and do most of their edits. When you go to trim, X just changes to that tool for you. So even then you are still in the select tool.

I tried to explained that to you but your repose was "Who cares"

[andy patterson] "Could you please respond to why that happened Tony?"

NO, because you didn't respond to any of my questions ; P It's annoying isn't it Andy when people do that?

[andy patterson] "Tony, why is it so hard for you address the real issue and admit Jesus sabotaged

Premiere Pro?"


Come on Andy, I don't think that man was trying to "sabotage" Pr. I really don't.

While you showed some more efficient ways to work in Pr, You actually might have done more (or as much) damage to Pr with your video then he did, because swapping shots is X's strength. Don't go up against it on that. Pick other examples that you find Pr to be more efficient and make a video on that. (sorry guys, I encouraged Andy to make more videos : )

When using X people can avoid the magnetic timeline by choosing the position tool (and we do when we need it) but more often than not I see people using the select tool. Meaning they want to be in the magnetic timeline mode when they cut most often.

Apple made an assumption that more people then not would prefer that mode, and if more people are sitting in A than P, that means for those people Apple guessed right.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 4:35:24 pm







Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 8:13:35 pm

Scott, didn't I say I was using hyperbole? You do realize I can change the title to say Premiere Pro is the best editing system. I can just as easily make a video saying FCPX is the worst NLE. If I create such a video would you post that video on the cow several times a month? Having said that what is your point? FCPX has bug that cause FCPX to crash as opposed to just having a simple glitch. Have you actually watched my video? Premiere Pro does not crash and you can eliminate the bug issues. Having said that why don't you share the video below on the Cow several times a month?







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David Mathis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 4:56:46 pm

You might as well invite Aindreas to the party! ๐Ÿ˜‚


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greg janza
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 5:42:27 pm

Perhaps there needs to be disclaimers added to posts by people here on the forum who are actively making secondary income off of their NLE of choice. Robin Kurz and Bill Davis are both speaking from highly biased perspectives since they both have established FCPX training materials.

And while everyone here tends to have a bias, those that are deriving income from one NLE certainly are going to skew their posts to their own benefit.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Canโ€™t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Scott Witthaus
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 7:16:37 pm

[greg janza] "Perhaps there needs to be disclaimers added to posts by people here on the forum who are actively making secondary income off of their NLE of choice."

As opposed to primary income? Why? Do you really think anyone here will be convinced to drop X or Pr because of a couple of videos and some posts by folks who train? I think not. Hell, Andy created a video saying Premiere was the worst NLE ever, but he didn't even convince himself on that one! ๐Ÿ˜‰ . I think it's pretty clear to see each active member's preference. No disclaimers really needed.

[greg janza] " those that are deriving income from one NLE certainly are going to skew their posts to their own benefit."

What is the benefit of someone "skewing" a post? Will they get more work because of some post on a COW forum? Me thinks not.

I think a better title for this thread would be: "This Thread Is What The Forum Is All About"! Throw a little blood in the water and then watch the thrashing commence!

:-)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Claude Lyneis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 7:31:50 pm

Maybe "This thread is why the forum is fun to read and respond to."


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 8:48:09 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "As opposed to primary income? Why? Do you really think anyone here will be convinced to drop X or Pr because of a couple of videos and some posts by folks who train? I think not. Hell, Andy created a video saying Premiere was the worst NLE ever, but he didn't even convince himself on that one! ๐Ÿ˜‰ . I think it's pretty clear to see each active member's preference. No disclaimers really needed."

I think everyone else can see hyperbole (Scott did not get the memo) when it is being used. Regardless of what I titled my video FCPX has bugs of it's own. For the record the bug in Premiere Pro can be avoided and it did not cause Premiere Pro to crash. I could start a new post in the cow every other month titled "FCPX is the worst NLE ever" and post a link to the video below but what would be the point? What is your point Scott? I think Greg is talking about the FCPX cheerleaders. Obviously my video proves I am not a Premiere Pro cheerleader so my video does not work as a good example to counter Greg's statement. You teach FCPX. Can you show an example of yourself bad mouthing FCPX? I find things in FCPX I can bad mouth.







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Steve Connor
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:19:05 pm

[andy patterson] "Obviously my video proves I am not a Premiere Pro cheerleader so my video "

Why "obviously?" you post more than anyone else on here and it's always in defence of PPro

Frankly you're responses are WAY out of proportion based on the fact a few people have made passing comments about Premiere, that weren't even that bad.

If you stopped posting on here I doubt Premiere would hardly get a mention!


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Bill Davis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 1:51:01 am

[greg janza] "Perhaps there needs to be disclaimers added to posts by people here on the forum who are actively making secondary income off of their NLE of choice. Robin Kurz and Bill Davis are both speaking from highly biased perspectives since they both have established FCPX training materials. "

Since you called me out by name on this, I'll just note that for the first FIVE years on this forum I didn't have ANY products related to FXP X.

I was an end user only.

So IF a desire for personal gain infects my credibility so much - what might have been causing my "highly biased perspective" back during those thousands of posts?

They are the exact same opinions now as then, right?

Just curious.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 3:39:15 am

Bill, I included you because you are one of the biggest FCPX advocates here on the forums and you have a training product as well.

And I've only been an active member here for a short time. For many years, I would only come here for troubleshooting info so I'm not versed on your long history of posting here. Therefore, I'm only basing my observations on your recent posts.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Canโ€™t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Bill Davis
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 7:14:43 pm

[greg janza] "Therefore, I'm only basing my observations on your recent posts."

Fine.

As anyone, you have an absolute right to post anything you like, here.

I'd just politely say that ascribing something as ephemeral as "motives" to others about why they post what they do - is something that's very easy to get wrong.

If my primary purpose here was merely to shill my product - those five prior years of constant engagement with this community would be a "long con" of pretty epic proportions.

And I'm just not that clever.

But it's the web.

And fact checking is always more work than just tossing out opinions.

I know, because I've personally failed in this arena more than once myself.

๐Ÿ˜Š

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 12, 2017 at 7:54:33 pm

[Tony West] "While you showed some more efficient ways to work in Pr, You actually might have done more (or as much) damage to Pr with your video then he did, because swapping shots is X's strength. Don't go up against it on that. Pick other examples that you find Pr to be more efficient and make a video on that. (sorry guys, I encouraged Andy to make more videos : )"

Once again Tony my video was not a FCPX VS Premiere Pro video. It was a video to demonstrate for Brian that I can complete the edit more efficient than Jesus when using Premiere Pro. My video did that. I cannot set up my own paradigms and examples as you claim Tony. I had to make use of the paradigms Jesus had used. Does it make sense now? Do you realize it is not a FCPX VS Premiere Pro video? Having said that I do think some of the audio edits might be easier in Premiere Pro. Once again my video is not a FCXP VS Premiere Pro video. I made it because I thought Brian really wanted to learn a more efficient way to edit when using Premiere Pro. Please take my video for what it actually is as opposed to what you want it to be or thought it should be.


[Tony West] "When using X people can avoid the magnetic timeline by choosing the position tool (and we do when we need it) but more often than not I see people using the select tool. Meaning they want to be in the magnetic timeline mode when they cut most often."

Once again the video is not a FCPX VS Premiere Pro video it is a video response to Jesus's editing techniques when using Premiere Pro. There is no need to discuss FCPX.


[Tony West] "Apple made an assumption that more people then not would prefer that mode, and if more people are sitting in A than P, that means for those people Apple guessed right."

Tony do you understand why your comments are irrelevant? My video is not a FCXP VS Premiere Pro video. You can feel free to start a new post about the editing process of FCPX but this thread is about Jesus's editing techniques when using Premiere Pro. Most people realize that.


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Neil Goodman
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 3:17:01 am

[andy patterson] "edit more efficient than Jesus when using Premiere Pro. "

That should be an Adobe banner on the cow.


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18:39 am

[Neil Goodman] "[andy patterson] "edit more efficient than Jesus when using Premiere Pro. "

That should be an Adobe banner on the cow."


Funny : )


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Tony West
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 5:11:40 am

[andy patterson] "Tony do you understand why your comments are irrelevant?"

I actually didn't know my comments were irrelevant until I read your post just now.

Hmmmm, that's rather unsettling news.

Does that mean I can't request you make ANOTHER X vs Pr video?

It's seems like X is faster. What do you think Andy? : ))


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andy patterson
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 13, 2017 at 6:51:14 am

[Tony West] "[andy patterson] "Tony do you understand why your comments are irrelevant?"

I actually didn't know my comments were irrelevant until I read your post just now."


They are irrelevant to Jesus's editing methods when using Premiere Pro. Would you agree with that? As I sated you can start a new thread about editing with FCPX. In fact I would welcome it and in that case my comments about Jesus's editing methods with Premiere Pro would be irrelevant.


[Tony West] "Does that mean I can't request you make ANOTHER X vs Pr video?

It's seems like X is faster. What do you think Andy? : ))"


You can make requests but I may not have the time. Having said that I don't know if I would consider X faster. I don't usually have to move things around like I did in the demo. Over all FCPX works OK. The biggest down fall of FCPX is the GUI. I hope to have a video of the FCPX GUI soon. I have been using QuickTime to do screen captures. I have also been using Keynote, Numbers, Garage Band and even iMovie.

Having said that I have been kicking the tires of FCPX since it was released. One of my friends has it on an older Mac Pro but I no longer have access to it. That is why I bought myself a Mac Mini. I don't regret buying the Mac Mini because it is good to know both Mac and PC and I like my Mac Mini so far.


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Mark Smith
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 14, 2017 at 12:28:30 am

When the discussion veers off the subject into personal attacks/bickering i just have to check out - such a waste of band width.


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Neil Goodman
Re: This video is what the forum is all about
on Sep 14, 2017 at 3:15:26 am

[Mark Smith] "When the discussion veers off the subject into personal attacks/bickering i just have to check out - such a waste of band width."

This thread was weird from the get go haha


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