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What would really make you excited- Round 2

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Oliver Peters
What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 12, 2017 at 6:40:51 pm

Just because the other thread became so derailed.

It would be nice to have some sort of submaster/master routing in the Audio Lanes mode so that you can add effects, like a broadcast limiting filter. Right now it requires compounding to do that on the final output. This should still work within the Lanes output matrix, so you can export discrete Lanes/Roles without effect along with the master with the effect.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Morgan Hazard
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 12, 2017 at 10:57:04 pm

1. Role based mixer
2. Motion updates (lots of it)


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Michael Gissing
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 12:22:07 am

[Oliver Peters]"It would be nice to have some sort of submaster/master routing in the Audio Lanes mode..."

The limitations (pun intended) of most NLE audio routing will be even more apparent when compared to Fairlight in Resolve. It has huge bus and multi master channel routing with FX on everything.


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andy patterson
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 12:32:18 am

I wish you could have waited 4-5 weeks to do another FCPX feature request. I have a brand new Mac Mini but I have not had time to download FCPX. I think I will download it this weekend.


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 11:45:21 am

[andy patterson] "I have a brand new Mac Mini"

Welcome back to the dark side ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Don Walker
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 5:14:07 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Welcome back to the dark side ☺"

Shouldn't that be welcome back FROM the dark side??????? 😁

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 6:00:44 pm

Depends on your POV.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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andy patterson
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 12:17:56 am

[Oliver Peters] "[andy patterson] "I have a brand new Mac Mini"

Welcome back to the dark side ☺"


Actually I never owned an Apple Computer before. It will be my first. Having said that I used to edit on a Mac Based Avid Media Composer and if truth be told I have been using FCPX since it first launched (not professionally) . I used to use my friends Mac Pro and FCS and FCPX from time to time. I have moved since then and no longer have access to the Mac so I had to buy a Mac Mini. I am sure I will have a feature request after I start using FCPX for a while.


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Bill Davis
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42:08 pm

Seems the group has spoken.

Apple needs to plumb into X a nice virtualized 1980s style NEVE/NECAM 64 channel audio console - add a big virtual normalized patch bay and a way to let the user change things using virtual patch cables.

And make sure there's a satisfying virtual CLICK as each virtual plug goes into it's virtual socket.

Offering virtual "splicing tape" and "channel labeling paper tape" would enable add-on sales as well! Win/win!

The more skeuomorphic the better!

(obviously teasing.)

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 7:46:54 pm

[Bill Davis] "Seems the group has spoken.
"


They have and what they have said will make interesting reading for the FCPX team, we know they listen as they often implement features that people have asked for.

Not sure just saying "hey guys - dream big" really helps focus the product


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Shawn Miller
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 8:07:52 pm

[Steve Connor] "Not sure just saying "hey guys - dream big" really helps focus the product"







Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 8:34:43 pm

Honestly, at this point, many of us will be surprised if any big, new features arrive in X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Brett Sherman
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 9:42:57 pm

It just seems to me the improvements people want, while valid, are a bit minor and certainly not revolutionary in any way. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Integrated audio to word translation would be a massive leap forward. Yes, there are plug-ins, but they are severely limited by being tack ons. To really maximize the usefulness, it needs to be integrated throughout the editing program.

--------------------------
Brett Sherman
One Man Band (If it's video related I'll do it!)
I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here.


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andy patterson
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 12:10:40 am

[Brett Sherman] "It just seems to me the improvements people want, while valid, are a bit minor and certainly not revolutionary in any way. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Integrated audio to word translation would be a massive leap forward. Yes, there are plug-ins, but they are severely limited by being tack ons. To really maximize the usefulness, it needs to be integrated throughout the editing program."

Didn't Premiere Pro do that since CS 5.0? Is the video below kind of what you want? Adobe Story has some cool metadata features as well.














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Don Walker
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 9:46:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Honestly, at this point, many of us will be surprised if any big, new features arrive in X."

Oliver,
The feature requests that you asked for in the first rendition of this thread, were they BIG features in your mind, or do anticipate seeing at least some of them?
Do you feel that active development of X is winding down?

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 13, 2017 at 11:18:47 pm

[Don Walker] "or do anticipate seeing at least some of them?
Do you feel that active development of X is winding down?"


Gosh. It's anyone's guess. Honestly, I don't see Apple implementing any of them, quite frankly. As far as development, that sort of depends on your POV of Apple. My gut feeling is that FCPX has moved into a position of stasis where we'll see some bug fixes and compatibility updates to stay current with the OS and hardware. Plus, maybe some big marquee feature that demos well and helps sell iMac Pros and the new and improved Mac Pro. Admittedly that's the "glass half empty" view, so I hope I'm wrong. But, there is no financial driver to encourage Apple to do anything more with FCPX than what they've done already.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 12:09:44 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But, there is no financial driver to encourage Apple to do anything more with FCPX than what they've done already."

But that was true before the last release that included "lanes" for audio. As an outsider it always looked as though the most requested features by users were lanes and a roles based mixer. Apple came through for lanes, any thing you see different at Apple as to why they won't come through with a roles based mixer?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 12:41:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Apple came through for lanes, any thing you see different at Apple as to why they won't come through with a roles based mixer?"

I don't know. Good question. Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon. However, despite Bill's accolades about Apple development, I don't think anyone in the "A" companies can hold a candle to what BMD is doing with Resolve. That development speed puts them all to shame, Apple included.

As far as a mixer, I doubt we'll see a roles-based mixer; however, I think it's quite conceivable to see some sort of "master lane" in the Audio Lanes mode. Basically a final output master bus where you can add effects, like a broadcast limiter. It seems like that would be consistent with the design of FCPX.

The real question for me is, what drives the ProApps development strategy? It's certainly not revenue, so I hope (for my friends on the inside) that it's because they have the freedom to develop the best app that they can. If that's the case, great. My fear though, is that with the next update - whenever that might be - we'll get something flashy, but useless, like 3D Stereo/AR/VR bolted into FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 1:26:49 pm

[Oliver Peters] "My fear though, is that with the next update - whenever that might be - we'll get something flashy, but useless, like 3D Stereo/AR/VR bolted into FCPX."

Which makes it just like Adobe with Ppro, and most other (non BMD) NLE companies. VR is the new 3D, and just as important to most editor's workflow, which is to say, not at all.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 2:48:43 pm

I think VR is just fade and will die in a year or two.


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andy patterson
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 15, 2017 at 11:17:21 pm

[Oliver Peters] " However, despite Bill's accolades about Apple development, I don't think anyone in the "A" companies can hold a candle to what BMD is doing with Resolve. That development speed puts them all to shame, Apple included."

Hey, that's my line : )

I am not saying in another two years DR will have 60% of the market. I am saying the upgrade for DR this years was impressive. I can only hope it forces the competition to bring their A-Game to NAB 2018. If DR has another major update at NAB 2018 and Premiere Pro's updates are mediocre than I will have to call a spade a spade. I can only hope BMD develops a graphics/photo editing program.


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Tony West
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 1:03:30 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Apple came through for lanes"

Correct. Lanes took X to whole new level.

Their incentive is to sell you that New Mac Pro that's coming and that new iMac Pro. Neither will be cheap and the only reason to buy a computer like that is to do Pro work on it, so you better have some Pro Apps to run.

The day that Mac Pro comes out they will have a picture of X in the window of it.
Anybody think different? (no pun intended : )

Also I'd like to see that timeline scroll with the playhead. That's gotta happen.


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 2:17:09 pm

[Tony West] "Their incentive is to sell you that New Mac Pro that's coming and that new iMac Pro. Neither will be cheap and the only reason to buy a computer like that is to do Pro work on it, so you better have some Pro Apps to run."

While I agree with this, I would point out that there are other markets Apple serves outside of entertainment where the new Mac Pro is of interest. CAD, engineering, analysis, etc. In fact, probably more so than entertainment. The iMac Pro is probably the powerhouse machine for X users. But, I agree that you'll be seeing FCPX PR tied to these new machines. Certainly the iMac Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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andy patterson
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 15, 2017 at 11:17:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "
While I agree with this, I would point out that there are other markets Apple serves outside of entertainment where the new Mac Pro is of interest. CAD, engineering, analysis, etc. In fact, probably more so than entertainment."


I see Macs and PC used for video and printing production. I used to edit on a Mac myself. On the other hand I have operate CNC lathes and mills and I have worked in a few different machine shops as well as attended college classes for skilled trades. All computers were PC based. I have not experienced one Mac ever for CAD work at any machine shop or fabrication facility. Not one Mac was ever used at any of the colleges I attended running CAD. I am not just talking CAD I am also talking CAM (computer aided manufacturing). I don't see Macs for engineering at all (not one). They may be out there in the world of engineering but I highly doubt they are used more in the world of engineering than in the world of audio, video and graphic design. I see both Mac and PC for audio, video and graphic design at colleges and in the workforce but I have never seen a Mac for CAD/CAM?CAE at any college I attended or any machine shop I worked at. Some of that engineering software can cost thousands of dollars. I know some of the programs will not work on a Mac.


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Alex Gollner
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 3:11:11 pm

My guess is that Apple don't like feature requests as much as they like getting insights into how you work. The ProApps team like stories.

They like each feature request to come with a story showing how it would change your day to day life. "I often have these kind of tasks. I have to do this in Final Cut. It would save me a great deal of time if the task went this way."

'Seamless integration with XX' is a clear request, but if you are more specific, it would be more useful. How would it work with Motion or Logic - in combination with multi-editor collaboration for example?

This way of giving Apple insight means they can compare your stories with people in different markets.

10.3 was about the answering requests made by people with complex workflows. I expect the next major update to be about the majority of Final Cut users. The trick is to come up with stories that could apply to more than 40% of users, and new stories that help them and you.


@Alex4D


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 3:27:08 pm

[Alex Gollner] "My guess is that Apple don't like feature requests as much as they like getting insights into how you work. The ProApps team like stories."

I think maybe a better way to describe that would be to say they want to know what is the problem you are trying to solve - rather than asking for a specific feature or function. They might come up with a totally different way of doing something (Lanes) if they aren't trying to chase features (a track-based mixer). Yet it solves the core problem.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 3:30:52 pm

[Alex Gollner] "The ProApps team like stories.

They like each feature request to come with a story showing how it would change your day to day life. "I often have these kind of tasks. I have to do this in Final Cut. It would save me a great deal of time if the task went this way.""


If this is really how they prioritize and prefer to get feedback they should make that clear on their feedback page. And for complex workflows/requests, it can be hard to tell your story (the problem) and your proposed solution when they limit you to 800 characters (which is the limit I hit on their feedback page when submitting requests).

Maybe I'll submit a request asking for a higher character limit on the feedback page. :-)

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Walter Soyka
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 3:51:55 pm

[Michael Hancock] "If this is really how they prioritize and prefer to get feedback they should make that clear on their feedback page."

Lots of developers think in terms of user stories. They're a great way to present feature requests or bug reports to almost anyone.

Here's a good introductory article:
https://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/agile/user-stories

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Michael Hancock
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 4:00:36 pm

That article is great. Thanks.

When I submit feedback on an app, I've always submitted it under two headings:

PROBLEM: This is the problem I am having.
PROPOSED SOLUTION: Here is how I think it could be solved, or what I need to happen for it to no longer be a problem.

I'll have to think about how to better submit concise but clear stories.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 4:53:53 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Lots of developers think in terms of user stories. "

It's obviously good practice for developers, but that's not a reason for users to have to think in terms of user stories, or for the developer to demand a user story from the user.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 5:07:11 pm

[Alex Gollner] "My guess is that Apple don't like feature requests as much as they like getting insights into how you work. The ProApps team like stories."

To be blunt about this, I think this approach is both rude and silly.

Because they can't condescend to listen properly their products are the weaker for it.

There's no such thing as a bad idea and anyone can have good ideas. It's sheer vanity to think you have a monopoly on good ideas.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 5:20:13 pm

What I don't get though, is that Apple specifically employs folks to sift through and collate the feedback submissions for common feature requests, reproducible bugs, etc. Isn't it their job to combine this input into a development strategy so that the most number of people get a solution that works for them? I get that it's pointless to create a feedback post with a list of 50 items on a wish list. However, specific 1-item/1-post submissions should be pretty easy to build into a database. AFAIK, they do that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 5:31:24 pm

[Oliver Peters] "What I don't get though, is that Apple specifically employs folks to sift through and collate the feedback submissions for common feature requests, reproducible bugs, etc. "

They collect it, sift it, collate it.

And then put it in the bin.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 6:20:30 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "And then put it in the bin"

Or would that be in the "event"?


- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 14, 2017 at 6:43:03 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Simon Ubsdell] "And then put it in the bin"

Or would that be in the "event"?"


Well played, sir!

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Marcus Moore
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 21, 2017 at 3:44:34 am

Hey Oliver. Haven't posted around here in a while- I remember several years ago debating with people around here about the idea of a Roles-based organized timeline. Needless to say I was pretty pleased with what was ultimately implemented in 10.3.

Along the lines of what you're talking about- I wrote another speculate piece recently of how I think Roles mixing could be implemented. I wrote up my thoughts here-

http://disproportionatepictures.blogspot.ca/2017/04/roles-redux-part-deux.h...

and even mocked up a video of what it might look like here-







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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 21, 2017 at 1:58:09 pm

Thanks. That's really along the lines of what I was thinking.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Claude Lyneis
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 21, 2017 at 5:37:21 pm

Very interesting proposal. I like the idea of having a master to make overall volume changes. My workflow in audio mixing and sweetening in FCPX could use some help, not that I have a complete mastery of the present roles and lanes.


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David Mathis
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 22, 2017 at 10:16:57 pm

This one thing really irritates me which is that you can't directly set in an in or out point on a connected clip especially while playing back. I am so agitated over having to select the range tool and hover the connected clip in order to do this. While there are many great things about Final Cut Pro X there are plenty of things that are simply frustrating. I am seriously considering jumping ship and moving to another editing package. Yes, my thoughts are saying to jump to Premiere Pro despite it being subscription only.


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Mauricio Lleras
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 23, 2017 at 7:05:11 pm

What about the fact that all marking actions (Mark In, Mark Out, Mark Clip, Clear In, Out, Clear both marks)
cannot be undone/redone? This is pretty annoying as well, besides, it'd be really nice if marks were put at the timeline level rather than the clip level.
But one of the things that most annoys and disconcerts me is not being able to simultaneously select and trim multiple edit points. This is to me a tremendous oversight and something I'm rather surprised not to find more often in these wish lists, seems like such a basic editing feature.
Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of what X has to offer, but these little things put all together amount to a sometimes underwhelming experience.


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David Mathis
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 23, 2017 at 8:58:53 pm

More rants:

1. No efficient way of moving markers. Grrrrrr
2. Lack of traditional three point editing (see previous post for another part of this rant).
3. Bring back tracks!


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Oliver Peters
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47:34 pm

[David Mathis] "More rants:"

I see Premiere Pro in your future ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: What would really make you excited- Round 2
on Jul 24, 2017 at 1:20:14 am

[David Mathis] "3. Bring back tracks!"

Ain't gonna happen. Why would it?

I see Premiere in your future. Good luck with that.

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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