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"It’s the Tesla of NLEs"

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Robin S. Kurz
"It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 17, 2017 at 6:06:47 pm

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1930-getting-a-16-episode-gameshow...

Pretty damn impressive.

- RK

____________________________________________________
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Bill Davis
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 17, 2017 at 9:38:28 pm

Hey, what does an ex-AVID nerd hanging around WGBH in Boston know, anyway.

And X workflows can't be this fast, because - (long pause) well it just because.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 18, 2017 at 3:58:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "And X workflows can't be this fast, because - (long pause) well it just because."

Nice article, especially since the workflow is so similar to mine, as is the town it was shot in. The Quiz show format is a simpler version of the cooking shows I do, with the same multicam concerns and the 26:46 PBS spec for finished shows.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 18, 2017 at 5:47:57 pm

Glad it was of interest to you.

X has always been about exposing more of the metadata flow to end users so they could find ways to leverage it into unique efficiencies.

When Phil and Greg formed Lumberjack systems to leverage that exposure, they worked with both FCP X and Premiere Pro implementations.

I obviously can't speak for them, but it has always seemed to me as an observer, that the level of exposure available in FCP X - particularly the way it's purpose built to track not just "whole clips" but agiley described ranges within clips -gave it real advantages for the type of prep work this article highlights.

It's taken quite a bit of time for the advantages some of us felt it would enable - to percolate down into real-world workflows.

But I think this is more evidence that it's now happening and will continue to accellerate.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 19, 2017 at 2:13:38 pm

[Bill Davis] "When Phil and Greg formed Lumberjack systems to leverage that exposure, they worked with both FCP X and Premiere Pro implementations."

I have used some of Phil's utilities in the past, they've always been great. When I went to the website it looks like Lumberjack is only for FCPX - I take it the Premiere implementation didn't work out?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 19, 2017 at 7:56:17 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I have used some of Phil's utilities in the past, they've always been great. When I went to the website it looks like Lumberjack is only for FCPX - I take it the Premiere implementation didn't work out?"

Don't know.

Back on Gone Girl, I believe they were working (perhaps peripherally?) with Premiere Pro.

And I know they have products that are designed to translate between the environments with their X to CC product.

But I don't know the current status of where they are focused regarding development.

When we talk NLE stuff, it's exclusively about FCP X, as you'd imagine.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 20, 2017 at 9:02:11 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Feb 20, 2017 at 9:36:18 am

[Herb Sevush] "I take it the Premiere implementation didn't work out?"

No, there simply is little to no point. Or how do you see that working out? PPro doesn't even do half the metadata that Final Cut Pro X does (in the sense of actually putting it to any helpful use) and uses it in completely different ways. Lumberjack caters specifically to FCP's metadata capabilities. The mere fact that PPro is stuck in a near 20 year old time-loop with its use of an age old version of XML excludes it from even being able to access everything of functional use and value that LJ spits out. I suppose I could see e.g. the automatic keyword-based string outs working, but I'm guessing it pretty much ends there. Since how are you going to get that information into PPro?? XMEML is far too limited (little more than an EDL on steroids by today's standards) and Adobe is clearly more interested in keeping you isolated in their own little ecosystem (and Avid even more so for that matter) to ever consider supporting something like FCPXML.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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andy patterson
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 20, 2017 at 5:03:17 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "PPro doesn't even do half the metadata that Final Cut Pro X does (in the sense of actually putting it to any helpful use) and uses it in completely different ways. Lumberjack caters specifically to FCP's metadata capabilities. The mere fact that PPro is stuck in a near 20 year old time-loop with its use of an age old version of XML excludes it from even being able to access everything of functional use and value that LJ spits out."

Keep in mind Premiere can accept metadata form Adobe Story, Bridge, AE, Audition etc. Premiere Pro is also cross platform. Premiere Pro does not have a timeline index but we can find content in the timeline. Premiere Pro does not have keywords but it does have metadata fields. Both FCPX and Premiere Pro (Adobe in general) offer more metadata than most users will actually use. Having said that I always find it fascinating when FCPX user hail Apple as the pioneers of metadata and keywords but then again there are some FCPX user who think Apple invented background rendering and GPU acceleration. FCPX has good metadata capabilities but then again so does Premiere Pro. FCPX will get better but then again so will Premiere Pro.







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andy patterson
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 9:01:00 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "PPro doesn't even do half the metadata that Final Cut Pro X does (in the sense of actually putting it to any helpful use) and uses it in completely different ways. Lumberjack caters specifically to FCP's metadata capabilities. The mere fact that PPro is stuck in a near 20 year old time-loop with its use of an age old version of XML excludes it from even being able to access everything of functional use and value that LJ spits out."

Keep in mind Premiere can accept metadata form Adobe Story, Bridge, AE, Audition etc. Premiere Pro is also cross platform. Premiere Pro does not have a timeline index but we can find content in the timeline. Premiere Pro does not have keywords but it does have metadata fields. Both FCPX and Premiere Pro (Adobe in general) offer more metadata than most users will actually use. Having said that I always find it fascinating when FCPX user hail Apple as the pioneers of metadata and keywords but then again there are some FCPX user who think Apple invented background rendering and GPU acceleration. FCPX has good metadata capabilities but then again so does Premiere Pro. FCPX will get better but then again so will Premiere Pro.













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Brian Seegmiller
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 3:58:51 pm

How do you implement those smart collections into Premiere Pro CC?


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andy patterson
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 4:18:40 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "How do you implement those smart collections into Premiere Pro CC?"

Premiere uses metadata fields but bridge used keywords and keyword collections prior to the launch of FCPX. Having said that Adobe is no stranger to metadata and all the Adobe programs will get better just like FCPX.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 4:49:51 pm

I liked how the article gave both a nice birds eye view and dug into the nitty-gritty. Though not being a Lumberjack user or an X user (or even someone that works are shows remotely like his game show) the nitty-gritty wasn't as meaningful to me as it would be to someone else. 😉

[Bill Davis] "And I know they have products that are designed to translate between the environments with their X to CC product.

But I don't know the current status of where they are focused regarding development. "


I think it boils down to where they want to put their time/energy since it's just the two of them. For example, a few years ago I was talking with Philip about getting Lumberjack to work with Avid (since it would probably get used on every reality show if that happened) and he didn't say it couldn't be done, just that basically AAF was a hurdle they didn't really want to deal with. PPro might have ended up in the same category of too much effort for too little return.


[Brian Seegmiller] "How do you implement those smart collections into Premiere Pro CC?"

PPro's Search Bins can auto-populate based on metadata such as keywords.


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Bill Davis
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 4:58:48 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Feb 21, 2017 at 5:08:16 pm

[andy patterson] "Premiere uses metadata fields but bridge... "



Call me when they take a jump as big as Apple did with X.

Toss all the code and re-imagine new possibilities is a bet purely for the future.

Preserving compatibility with the past, is largely a bet against industry change.

We'll see who goes farther, faster - going forward.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:29:58 pm

So, how do you use Bridge and Premiere together so I can see keywords in Premiere after setting them in Bridge?


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 26, 2017 at 6:14:23 am

So how do you use keywords from bridge in premiere pro? Anybody?


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 26, 2017 at 11:04:00 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Feb 26, 2017 at 11:08:24 am

You can't. As much as some would love for it to be possible. 😏

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 5:22:05 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "How do you implement those smart collections into Premiere Pro CC?"

Never mind keyword ranges (multiple, overlapping etc.) or anything along the lines of favorites or rejects etc. etc. etc.

Droll how some actually think metadata is only relevant and usable when machine generated. Low horizons.

It's always so painfully easy to see who here has actually used FCP X and not just seen screenshots and read feature lists online that they felt threatened by — therefore in fact know what they're talking about — and who is just pulling random brain-farts out of nether regions, trolling forums that are of no relevance to them otherwise. Just to justify some contrary personal choice. As if anyone cared. Amusing, too, how that threat can come from just mere software. 😂😂 Oh well. comes with the territory I spose! Dats da internetz fo' yaz.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:17:24 pm

Robin, since I have to use PP at my work I was wondering how to use Bridge and Premiere together as far has key-wording is concerned. I already know it is not even close to what FCP X can do, but just trying to learn how Bridge and Premiere work together. I don't know if you were referring to me as not using FCP X, but believe me, I LOVE FCP X and if you look me up you will discover I am a staunch advocate for FCP X. That being said, I have to use PP at work and am trying to make it as less painful as possible.


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Steve Connor
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:31:19 pm
Last Edited By Steve Connor on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:31:37 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] " I LOVE FCP X and if you look me up you will discover I am a staunch advocate for FCP X"

Won't stop you getting the "Wrath of Kurtz" I'm afraid :)


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:35:46 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Feb 21, 2017 at 6:36:46 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "I don't know if you were referring to me as not using FCP X…"

If you are, then clearly not, no. 😜

(nor was I otherwise 😉)

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 21, 2017 at 11:41:22 pm

[andy patterson] "remiere Pro does not have a timeline index but we can find content in the timeline. "

Meant to mention this in my previous post but I forgot. A few days ago Andy Mees posted a screenshot of a Timeline Index feature he built in PPro and is noodling around with.



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andy patterson
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 22, 2017 at 2:30:09 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Meant to mention this in my previous post but I forgot. A few days ago Andy Mees posted a screenshot of a Timeline Index feature he built in PPro and is noodling around with."

Interesting and thanks for posting. That kind of proves my point that Premiere has a good foundation for metadata. I guess it is hard for certain people to accept that fact. I do wish there was a small thumbnail image for the content in Premiere's (Andy's) timeline index. Just a thought.


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andy patterson
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Feb 22, 2017 at 2:52:18 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "It's always so painfully easy to see who here has actually used FCP X and not just seen screenshots and read feature lists online that they felt threatened by — therefore in fact know what they're talking about — and who is just pulling random brain-farts out of nether regions, trolling forums that are of no relevance to them otherwise. Just to justify some contrary personal choice. As if anyone cared. Amusing, too, how that threat can come from just mere software. 😂😂 Oh well. comes with the territory I spose! Dats da internetz fo' yaz."

You are the pot calling the kettle black Robin. You should have been able to accept my prior posting without issue. Why couldn't you? For the record this is not a FCPX lovefest forum nor is it a form to simply trash Avid and Premiere. It is a forum to discuss the pros and cons of all NLE related software and hardware. If you notice I have stated many times FCPX is a good program. How many time have you stated Premiere is a good program? I have stated FCPX has good metadata. Having said that I see many FCPX users with a need to bad mouth Avid and Premiere. Why is that Robin? Where have you seen myself or anyone else talk negative about FCPX? Who has ever stated FCPX has an old outdated metadata system? Who has ever claimed Premiere Pro is moving into the future and FCPX is stuck in the past? Simply stating Adobe is no stranger to metadata should not upset you? Why did it Robin? I never stated the keyword collection of Bridge is the same as in FCPX but Apple did not invent the concept of keyword collections? I am simply pointing out the obvious. What upsets you may enlighten others.


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David Busse
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Mar 2, 2017 at 6:10:39 am

After giving FCP X another good try I feel that this analogy is very true. Teslas are great for drivers who want a modern and easy experience exactly as the manufacturer provides, but you should get a Honda if you want to play around under the hood.


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David Busse
Re: "It’s the Tesla of NLEs"
on Mar 2, 2017 at 2:53:04 pm

My bad for thinking that I could have a productive debate in this "debates" forum with an fcp x fan boy. I've been lurking long enough to see your general aggression towards anyone who enjoys using other platforms.

Anyways the metaphor would make sense if you had experience working with cars.


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