APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: FCP Legacy FCPX Debates Apple Final Cut Pro X FCP Tutorials

Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.

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Bill Davis
Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 8:53:49 pm

http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/how-use-geforce-now-on-mac-ge...

Still thinking you're going to need that massive CPU/GPU combo hard-soldered in your machine in a few years?

Or will you be able to do all your actual editing without it - then just link up for when you need it for a super-res render or an export?

OTOH, I guess now you can look forward to now paying monthly for your software AND your hardware - whether you're using them every day - or just once a month.

The future is coming on strong!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 9:33:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "Or will you be able to do all your actual editing without it - then just link up for when you need it for a super-res render or an export?"

Yep and with IOT fast approaching I'm going to be doing all my editing on my Toaster


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 9:42:14 pm

[Bill Davis] "Or will you be able to do all your actual editing without it - then just link up for when you need it for a super-res render or an export? "

No because the GPU is accelerating effects and all kinds of interactions during editing (at least in Premiere) so I prefer having a proper GPU installed. Especially when the latest and greatest Nvidia cards are insanely cheap for the performance they give out.

Also Resolve is using GPU for everything.


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 9:49:24 pm

There are rendering services that can put your Maya/Softimage/Houdini/whatever comps in their farms and render stuff for you but they are usually for CG renders. The materials for that kind of work are usually easier to send around instead of footage.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 10:23:18 pm
Last Edited By Andrew Kimery on Jan 5, 2017 at 10:28:42 pm

The article, especially the headline, isn't very clear. "GeForce Now" is a game streaming service (like Playstation Now and the defunct OnLive service). You aren't playing the game on your Mac, you are basically logging into Nvidia's servers and playing the game via remote desktop. If you have a fast, low latency Internet connection then it's fine, but if you don't then the lag is going to be annoying as hell.

Microsoft uses it's cloud computing service, Azure, to help render AI and GFX for Xbox One games (thus freeing up some load from the local CPU/GPU) and Adobe has floated the idea of cloud-assisted rendering for AE coming to CC subscribers. So it is possible, but to Tero's point, I don't think this works well editing for a couple of reasons.

1. Many programs use the GPU for basic operation so having a strong GPU locally is still worthwhile (which is why Apple doubled down on GPUs in the nMP).

2. For editing you also have to figure out how to transfer the media. If I want someone to remotely render something in AE or a CG program I just have to send them the data from my project and they send back the rendered media. If I want someone to remotely render something in my NLE I can't just send them my project file/data I have to send them the media too which complicates thing if it's a big project (ex. sending 90min of ProRes HQ for someone to render out remotely).

If we reach a point in the US where data caps don't exist and 1gig up/down is common place (or even 10gig up/down is affordable) then these problems obviously are reduced. Another possible alternative to a 'cloud GPU' is hooking up an external GPU, but IIRC MacOS currently doesn't support that feature.

EDIT:
Of course the other thing related to this is the Avid Everywere/Adobe Anywhere solution where all the media is stored on a 'big iron' server and users just remote into it. That's obviously a more enterprise level solution at this time.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 10:36:09 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "If we reach a point in the US where data caps don't exist and 1gig up/down is common place (or even 10gig up/down is affordable) then these problems obviously are reduced."

Yup, all we would need is a landscape where there are more than a handful of high speed internet providers, and common sense net neutrality principles codified into law. ☺

Shawn



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Michael Gissing
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 11:53:12 pm

[Bill Davis] "Still thinking you're going to need that massive CPU/GPU combo hard-soldered in your machine in a few years?"

Yes I will need onboard heavy lifting hardware but no I don't want it soldered in. Thats why I dropped Apple hardware. Soldering in upgradables like GPU & CPU is just dumb.

Getting rid of bottle necks is critical for RT performance of heavy codecs in large frame sizes. Rendering is not something that I need till the job is nearly done. RT performance while grading needs fast PCI bussing and there is no way that the internet is going to be nearly fast enough in my neck of the woods to deal with remote GPU tasking.

As we lurch rapidly towards camera originals in 8k, big iron CPU/GPU is actually more important to people like me. For those that want to edit proxy on a laptop this might help specific needs. But for people like me that finish, I don't even see this as competition.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 11:23:04 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "If we reach a point in the US where data caps don't exist and 1gig up/down is common place (or even 10gig up/down is affordable) then these problems obviously are reduced. "

Good grief!

I thought things were bad in the UK, but if you're having issues with tiny file sizes like that you really do have problems.

Whereas in the rest of Europe, let alone Japan ...!

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 11:42:21 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Yup, all we would need is a landscape where there are more than a handful of high speed internet providers, and common sense net neutrality principles codified into law. ☺"

Someday... hopefully. 😉


[Simon Ubsdell] "I thought things were bad in the UK, but if you're having issues with tiny file sizes like that you really do have problems."

Not transfering files 1 gig in size, but 1 gigabit per second, symmetrical Internet speeds. Speeds usually associated with fiber connections though I believe cable Internet can now hit 1gig speeds (but not 10gig AFAIK).


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Shawn Miller
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 11:46:54 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "[Andrew Kimery] "If we reach a point in the US where data caps don't exist and 1gig up/down is common place (or even 10gig up/down is affordable) then these problems obviously are reduced. "

Good grief!

I thought things were bad in the UK, but if you're having issues with tiny file sizes like that you really do have problems.

Whereas in the rest of Europe, let alone Japan ...!"


Even worse, we pay the highest rates for broadband access in the world. How much do you pay for a 20Mbps connection? In the US, the average is around $50.00 a month.

Shawn



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 12:00:42 am

[Shawn Miller] "Even worse, we pay the highest rates for broadband access in the world. How much do you pay for a 20Mbps connection? In the US, the average is around $50.00 a month."

I recently worked on a doc about Net Neutrality and ISPs in the US and the situation is beyond a train wreck. While watching the interviews, as well as doing my own research because somethings get pretty complex, I had to get up and take a break at times because I got so steamed learning how screwed up things are.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 12:41:12 am
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Jan 6, 2017 at 12:45:19 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I recently worked on a doc about Net Neutrality and ISPs in the US and the situation is beyond a train wreck. While watching the interviews, as well as doing my own research because somethings get pretty complex, I had to get up and take a break at times because I got so steamed learning how screwed up things are."

Wow, that bad... there used to be five or six ISPs in town, now there are two. It would be nice to hear the inside story of how it got that way. I know what happened in broad strokes, but the details have got to be interesting.

EDIT: I meant to ask if your doc had been released yet.

Shawn



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 7:12:26 am

[Shawn Miller] "Wow, that bad... there used to be five or six ISPs in town, now there are two. It would be nice to hear the inside story of how it got that way. I know what happened in broad strokes, but the details have got to be interesting.

EDIT: I meant to ask if your doc had been released yet."


The doc has not been released yet. AFAIK they are trying the festival thing now but it should come out this year (I'm not totally in the loop on it as I had to leave the project early due to prior commitments).

The details are interesting (and many times just flat out unbelievable that it's actually playing out like this). The most troubling thing is that in the relatively near future our ISPs will be a single point of connection for nearly all forms of media and communication and users are about to be on the losing end of the battle. What started out as egalitarian and user driven is now being being carved up, walled off, and extorted by gatekeeping media giants (both old and new). We are in the Information Age which means controlling the creation and distribution of information/data (whether it's a phone call, a web page or a video-on-demand) is where the power lies and where the money is to be made.

I'm going to dismount from my soapbox before I rant the night away, but I'll leave with one last tidbit; A crazy thing to think about is that it's 2017 and most Americans have a wider choice of dial-up ISPs than broadband ISPs.


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Gabe Strong
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 3:31:11 am

Man, we finally got 30Mb speed about two weeks ago. Before that, the fastest
we could possibly get was 3Mb (and we were paying a lot more than $50/month for
it!). Looking at what people say they are paying makes me shake my head. People
sure are spoiled.....$50/month for 20Mb expensive? Wow.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 7:23:25 am

[Gabe Strong] "People sure are spoiled.....$50/month for 20Mb expensive? Wow."

Not so much spoiled as getting gouged less than you are for Internet access. In many other first world countries $50/mo will get you gigabit speeds plus TV and/or phone service. I think the typical the markup on data costs by US ISPs is something like 2000-5000% and the 'wholesale' cost of data keeps getting cheaper as computer equipment gets faster and less expensive.

Of course if you live in the sticks you are pretty SOL because ISPs aren't required to provide service they way telephone companies are.


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Gabe Strong
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 10, 2017 at 9:11:28 am

I dunno.....so you are saying $50 a month is totally fair when it comes to CC but
terribly expensive when it comes to high speed internet access??
😉

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 6, 2017 at 12:29:00 am

[Andrew Kimery] "1. Many programs use the GPU for basic operation so having a strong GPU locally is still worthwhile (which is why Apple doubled down on GPUs in the nMP). "

FWIW I have the top nMBP with 4gig gpu and I have an iMac late 2012 27" with 2gig GPU. 4 years apart and 2gigs of GPU apart and there is zero discernible difference. And I'm playing back very complicated timelines full of custom motion projects and such. In my mind the nMBP seems a little less responsive scrubbing around and such.

I'm literally opening the same project on the same raid. First plugged into the nMBP, then plugged into the iMac.

I'll do render tests at some point.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCP X Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists


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Shane Ross
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 5, 2017 at 11:35:22 pm

[Tero Ahlfors] "Also Resolve is using GPU for everything."

Mainly when playing back complex grades or noise reduction. But I find that it pings my processor mainly...especially when rendering. It only gravitates to the GPU when it hits heavy vignetting and NR. Straight color it gobbles my CPU. So much that it caused it to overheat one day and restart my computer!!

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Walter Soyka
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 9, 2017 at 7:12:21 pm

[Bill Davis] "Still thinking you're going to need that massive CPU/GPU combo hard-soldered in your machine in a few years?"

I've been using cloud-based render power since 2012, and I still like have a lot of local power (not hard-soldered). In production, they're different uses cases. Local compute power gets you interactive preview; remote compute power gets you accelerated renders for tasks that can be computed in parallel.


[Bill Davis] "Or will you be able to do all your actual editing without it - then just link up for when you need it for a super-res render or an export?"

Please spare a thought for your brothers and sisters in creative spaces adjacent to editorial! I wouldn't be surprised if you love editing on your iPad in a couple of years -- and why not? Arranging pieces of media and playing them back is no longer the computational challenge it once was. But other spaces have different needs.

I've been saying for a while that we're going to see workstations are going to become more niche, and thus more expensive... and that they'll still be worth having for some markets.


[Bill Davis] "OTOH, I guess now you can look forward to now paying monthly for your software AND your hardware - whether you're using them every day - or just once a month. The future is coming on strong!"

Some folks even let you subscribe monthly for training. And if both parties get something valuable out of it, why not?

Let's note, though, that this service is not priced on subscription; it's priced on metered consumption, like a utility. That seems a fair way to sell the service of access to a limited good.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Bill Davis
Re: Here we go. GPU in the cloud. By Subscription.
on Jan 10, 2017 at 4:56:33 am

[Walter Soyka] "Some folks even let you subscribe monthly for training. And if both parties get something valuable out of it, why not?"

Have NEVER had a problem with rental or subscription. Have used services like Lynda.com since they started.

Only have a problem if somebody either makes it unnecessarily more difficult to Un-Subscribe -then to subscribe ... or locks a subscriber out of their own intellectual property if they fail to pay.

Don't do that - and I'm totally cool with it all.

: )

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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