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Why do Events still exist?

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Oliver PetersWhy do Events still exist?
by on Dec 1, 2016 at 2:05:38 pm

When FCPX started, Events were the basic data container, like bins are in Avid Media Composer. Then Apple unified Events into a Library.

Right now Events seem to serve very little function other than as an organizing folder. For example, if you load 5 clips into Event 1 and another 5 clips into Event 2, you still see and can access all 10 clips at the Library level. In fact, your Events can actually be completely empty with all clips in the Library, yet you have to have at least 1 Event in the Library, even if it is empty.

Unfortunately, the full set of folders and other organizing tools you have available in the Event can't be utilized at the Library level. So it seems to me that Events - the way they are implemented - are a vestige of the false start Apple took in the initial FCPX design.

Shouldn't they simply get rid of Events and apply all the collections, folders, etc. at the Library level?

- Oliver

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Michael HancockRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 1, 2016 at 2:32:39 pm

Interesting thought. I use events as broad organizational bins (one per Camera/shoot day, Graphics, Audio, Sequences, etc...) then subcategorize using keywords within each event to sift and sort that media into more organized, logical groups.

For example, I always have an event called AUDIO with keywords for MUSIC, VO, SFX, FINAL MIX. I like that I can click the event to see every audio file in the project, or click a keyword to instantly filter to just music, VO, etc (which is why I want to assign a role to a keyword to it's applied to every clip in that keyword). But you could replicate that organization in FCPX if there were folders at the library level, if clicking a folder would show you every clip in it (like an event). Then you could toss out events and not really lose anything.

----------------
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Editor


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 1, 2016 at 6:24:30 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Shouldn't they simply get rid of Events and apply all the collections, folders, etc. at the Library level?
"


So, pretend there are no Events, throw everything in to one Event, and work the way you propose.


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Bret WilliamsRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 1, 2016 at 11:48:24 pm

That's how I've always worked. Actually I make an event for sequences so that all the compound clips that get created don't show in my media event. I really have almost no need whatsoever for compounds to be shown in the event.

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Darren RoarkRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 12:32:52 am

[Oliver Peters] "Shouldn't they simply get rid of Events and apply all the collections, folders, etc. at the Library level?"

I bet if it was simple they'd have done that by now.

You can't match back to anywhere but the root of an event even if you pulled a clip from a keyword or smart collection.

For features I still make one event per scene for this reason.


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 1:56:26 am

[Darren Roark] "I bet if it was simple they'd have done that by now. "

IOW, the original design was flawed and they've been trying to work around that ever since ☺

- Oliver

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Darren RoarkRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 2:00:21 am

[Oliver Peters] "IOW, the original design was flawed and they've been trying to work around that ever since ☺"

True, this is what they get for trying to emulate any aspect of how Avid works keeping sequences and bins separate then realizing that wasn't practical for most.


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 2:01:34 am

[Darren Roark] "True, this is what they get for trying to emulate any aspect of how Avid works keeping sequences and bins separate then realizing that wasn't practical for most."

Except that it actually works quite well with Media Composer.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
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Darren RoarkRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 2:09:18 am

[Oliver Peters] "Except that it actually works quite well with Media Composer."

That must be the reason it's still the standard operating procedure editing system here.

Because it's better. ;)


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Bill DavisRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 2:21:40 am

[Oliver Peters] "Except that it actually works quite well with Media Composer."

Keeping a pair of thin cotton gloves in my lighting kit for changing out high wattage tungsten lamps also worked quite well for a LONG time.

Then I sold all my tungsten lights and moved on.

To me, it's just another optional container allowing a level of organization I can choose to - or not to - employ.

I kinda enjoy things in separate packages inside other larger packages. It's how I think. It's why I have sub-boxes for, for example, my individual wireless lav rigs - even tho those all get put into the larger AUDIO container.

Seems to me that if I used all the mics all the time, digging them out of the sub-boxes would probably be a hassle. But when it's time to head for a gig — and I need just ONE wireless rig — the sub-packaging helps.

Same with Events.

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Bret WilliamsRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:57:31 am
Last Edited By Bret Williams on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:58:16 am

Except Events aren't sub packaging. They're the outermost packaging (except the library). It's akin to having just the toolkit you describe and loading it in your car. Except you always have to put it in a big cardboard box first for no reason.

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Bill DavisRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 8:30:02 am

Well Brett, I think the "Except the Library" is a pretty Huge Deal.

I've had corporate Gigs with a single client (Library) creating convention videos for multiple division presentations: e.g Sales, Operations, Training, etc. (Events) Each of which commissioned multiple videos for a big annual conference. (Projects)

The problem is editors who perhaps think that the only organizational structure that should matter is the one that meets needs precisely like theirs?

You and Oliver may not see a need for the added organizational buckets from inside your working style, but some of us have been very pleased to have them.

FWIW.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 1:05:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "You and Oliver may not see a need for the added organizational buckets from inside your working style, but some of us have been very pleased to have them."

No one is arguing against organizational buckets. The question is whether there is a need to have Events as a specific, separate structural element.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Joe MarlerRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 3:00:22 pm

[Oliver Peters] "the original design was flawed and they've been trying to work around that ever since"

First, I think you're correct about why do events still exist. This has been discussed before in various forums. I am personally working on a project with 5 terabytes, 7,000 clips an 160 hr of material in a single event of one library. I do everything with tagging and rating -- it works mostly OK. There can be some I/O issues because FCPX does lots of random 4k and 8k I/Os when building and maintaining thumbnails in the Event Browser. I have read speculation that distributing content over multiple events somehow helps but I've never seen proof of this or tested it. This is on a 2015 top-spec iMac 27 with an 8TB SSD array in RAID-0.

With the advent of library-wide smart collections, library-wide searching, and finder tags to classify imported content, you mostly don't need events from an organizational standpoint. However this doesn't mean the original design was flawed, as if an architectural error. There are several possible explanations for events (all speculative):

- The internal database mechanisms to support library-wide searches and smart collections could not deliver adequate performance on then-existing hardware
- Finder tags did not exist which now makes it easier to duplicate the functionality of importing into a "bin".
- It was difficult enough for editors to conceptually transition to FCPX. It would have been too much to demand they accept there's no bin-like feature whatsoever and totally commit to metadata-only organization right off the bat.

Re why do they still exist, obviously people are using events for better or worse, so it would be a big disruption to remove them. Aside from media organization, there may in fact be reasons for retaining them, such as performance (unproven) or certain workflow or utility tasks. I have not studied this closely and other people could probably better list these.


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Scott WitthausRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 2:04:37 am

I do like events as an organizational tool, but I would love to be able to group them into folders too.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
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Bret WilliamsRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 5:00:43 am

[Oliver Peters] "In fact, your Events can actually be completely empty with all clips in the Library, yet you have to have at least 1 Event in the Library, even if it is empty."

I'd like to know how you can do this. All media must exist in an event. Media can't exist only in the library.

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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 1:35:30 pm

[Bret Williams] "I'd like to know how you can do this. All media must exist in an event. Media can't exist only in the library."

This was not the case in a Library I created the other night. I had missing clips that had disappeared from the only Event, but were still visible in the Library. I was able to remove all clips from the Event, yet they stayed in the Library. I then moved (or copied, don't remember) back into the Event.

- Oliver

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Orlando, FL
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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 5:27:03 pm

[Oliver Peters] "This was not the case in a Library I created the other night. I had missing clips that had disappeared from the only Event, but were still visible in the Library. I was able to remove all clips from the Event, yet they stayed in the Library. I then moved (or copied, don't remember) back into the Event."

Then something is clearly going very very wrong on your end, since that simply can't (shouldn't) be. As Bret already stated, there is no way to only have clips in the library. They can only be in an event IN the library. Selecting the library will show you everything of every event in that library. If you're seeing anything else, well…

And by the way, for the sake of memory usage and speed alone, getting rid of events would be a horrible idea. Since otherwise FCP would load the entire content of a library upon starting up. This way it is only loading the content of whichever event/project you have selected (but scanning the rest on open to check links, yes). Unless of course you do e.g. a search at the library level, in which case it reads everything i.e. projects etc. as well. I'm sure everyone has had to wait for the progress bar to finish when doing that. There you go.

Aside from that I find events a very welcome and very logical organizational tool. I do an episodic. Instead of making one library per episode, which would make for a complete mess, I make one library per season and one event per episode. Exponentially better and easier to handle.

I also don't see how simply removing a single level from the overall hierarchy could have somehow posed a problem for Apple when it came to 10.1. I find the notion that the fact they're still there somehow wasn't on purpose rather amusing if not, in the context of Apple, plain silly.

- RK

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Tony WestRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 6:11:42 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Aside from that I find events a very welcome and very logical organizational tool. I do an episodic. Instead of making one library per episode, which would make for a complete mess, I make one library per season and one event per episode. Exponentially better and easier to handle."

Exactly how they were meant to be used in my opinion and how I use them.

Very simply and fast to get to things that way, but if someone would rather dump thousands of items into one event they have that option also.


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 1:19:57 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "As Bret already stated, there is no way to only have clips in the library. They can only be in an event IN the library. Selecting the library will show you everything of every event in that library. If you're seeing anything else, well…
"


While this is structurally true within the package contents, it's apparently not completely true inside to user interface - although it should be. I agree that something went wrong in the situation I had, but that's just another example of how buggy this version is at the moment.

Yet the question still remains... Why are there still Events as structural elements within the package itself? It seems to be a vestige left over from 10.0.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
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Jeremy GarchowRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 2:34:23 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Why are there still Events as structural elements within the package itself? It seems to be a vestige left over from 10.0."

What does this mean, that it is somehow broken?

Events work they way the program was designed. They are literally containers in both the program and on the Finder level. Big deal?


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 4:09:23 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What does this mean, that it is somehow broken?
Events work they way the program was designed. They are literally containers in both the program and on the Finder level. Big deal?"


I never said they were broken. I'm merely questioning why they exist, as the structure imposes limitations in the UI that don't exist in other NLEs. Therefore, why are they still there?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 5:55:38 pm

It is also freeing in its limitations. I would hope that I don't have to go back to bins with one clip, one location.

The nice thing is, if you don't want to, you don't have to use Events. I, personally, really like them and like the implementation. I like that when I make certain new elements, like a compound, or a project, you can assign which Event they are created in, and in those events, they can be readily sorted with smart collections.

This means I can have a library with one big subject (like a client or program or campaign), and as many Events as it takes to parcel the show, client, or campaign. If I need to break any of that off, I can export an XML of the Event.

Without Events, this would be way more messy and infinitely more involved from a users point of view.


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 6:15:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This means I can have a library with one big subject (like a client or program or campaign), and as many Events as it takes to parcel the show, client, or campaign. If I need to break any of that off, I can export an XML of the Event. "

It would be identical if the Events were simply a folder structure. With collections and smart collections continued.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
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Jeremy GarchowRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 9:53:40 pm

So if it's identical, why are you splitting hairs?


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 10:02:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So if it's identical, why are you splitting hairs?"

I feel like this is a Monty Python skit. You guys are the ones splitting hairs. My point is that Events are in fact limited in comparison to folders and bins. I'm not talking about collection and smart collections. That's a different matter and quite helpful.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:07:47 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "So if it's identical, why are you splitting hairs?"

Best question yet. 😄

- RK

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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 1:50:17 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "And by the way, for the sake of memory usage and speed alone, getting rid of events would be a horrible idea. Since otherwise FCP would load the entire content of a library upon starting up. This way it is only loading the content of whichever event/project you have selected (but scanning the rest on open to check links, yes). Unless of course you do e.g. a search at the library level, in which case it reads everything i.e. projects etc. as well. I'm sure everyone has had to wait for the progress bar to finish when doing that. There you go."

I agree that's an issue with FCPX. However, it never was much of an issue with FCP "classic" and isn't with PPro or Avid MC. So doesn't that point to other "under the hood" issues? I'm sure thumbnail/filmstrip/waveform generation in FCPX is the biggest culprit here.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:07:33 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:13:29 am

[Oliver Peters] "I agree that's an issue with FCPX."

I'm sorry, but for someone who claims to use all the above equally, I find it amazing that you could suggest that any of that is somehow an FCP X-only issue with a straight face. If anything, then FCP 7 for one was by far worse and constantly I hear the exact same complaint from PPro users. Lag and unresponsiveness past a certain project size and/or time of use.

Seeing that Premiere literally needs an easy 10 times longer for a restart to resolve it obviously makes it that much more of an issue in the end, too.

- RK

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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 12:13:52 am

"constantly I hear the exact same complaint from PPro users. Lag and unresponsiveness past a certain project size and/or time of use."

That hasn't been my experience with Premiere Pro.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tony WestRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 5:40:32 am

It seems like it comes down to how many elements you have in the project you are working on.

It can seem a little redundant if you don't have that many elements, but if you are working on a project with thousands of elements that you need to get to in just two clicks it's great.

As others have said, it's another layer of organization that is very handy and fast.


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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:01:09 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:02:09 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Shouldn't they simply get rid of Events and apply all the collections, folders, etc. at the Library level?"

So then why not get rid of folders in the Finder and just dump any and everything on the top level of every disk and just use Finder tags to filter everything? By that same logic I guess folders were a mistake of the original OS that have become obsolete, or not?

- RK

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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:04:09 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "So then why not get rid of folders in the Finder and just dump any and everything on the top level of every disk and just use Finder tags to filter everything?"

I think you're missing the point. It's not a question of whether or not to have organizing "bins", folders, collections, etc. Currently Events do not function like folders, but they should. They seem to be a vestige of an earlier database model that FCPX is stuck with, but isn't completely needed any longer.

- Oliver

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Walter SoykaRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:32:07 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "So then why not get rid of folders in the Finder and just dump any and everything on the top level of every disk and just use Finder tags to filter everything? By that same logic I guess folders were a mistake of the original OS that have become obsolete, or not?"

Be careful, Robin, your argument could be misconstrued as support for traditional NLE bins!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 4:54:06 pm

[Walter Soyka] "your argument could be misconstrued as support for traditional NLE bins!"

You know me. I'm a traditional kind of guy. 😏

- RK

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Joe MarlerRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 2, 2016 at 10:25:53 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "So then why not get rid of folders in the Finder and just dump any and everything on the top level of every disk and just use Finder tags to filter everything? By that same logic I guess folders were a mistake of the original OS "

In most file systems, folders are an intuitive orgizational and navigational UI construct which maps to the underlying directory structure. Whether the UI draws a folder object or not, a heirarchical file structure exists. Using folders and sub-folders was an easy UI step, plus approachable and familiar to users.

FCPX is more like a relational database. In an RDBMS there is no intrinsic heirarchy of data, it exists in unordered rows that you query by attributes. On ingest you can define (ie tag) additional attributes to facilitate later retrieval. If the UI chooses to display that in folders corresponding to those attributes, it can, but (unlike a file system) the data is not heirarchically organized.

Since the advent of the RDBMS there has always been a conflict between human perception and relational data management. People often think of data navigationally or heirarchically. In their mind, rows are in an intrinsic order, like papers in a file. People have an ingrained (or is it learned?) tendency to store things within things, items with folders, folders within folders, etc.

This is likely one reason why FCPX originally used events. Not doing so would be too foreign, and transitioning or new users had enough to struggle with anyway.

Re "So then why not get rid of folders in the Finder and just dump any and everything on the top level of every disk and just use Finder tags to filter everything? By that same logic I guess folders were a mistake of the original OS..."

As previously described, a file system is very different from an RDBMS or FCPX. Today you can use FCPX perfectly well without any events, although events may have some residual value besides a comfort blanket of familiarity.

Object or database file systems have been proposed and some built, but none widely adopted. The lack of these is one reason we have so many problems when manipulating data outside iTunes, Lightroom or FCPX, which the app is then unaware of. Current file systems are very dumb, have no two-way communication with the app, and force database functionality to be redundantly implemented within each app. Each app must implement its own database, verification and repair functions -- often rudimentary, undocumented or even non-existent.

Some apps have moved toward diminishing a pure folder-like organization. E.g, Gmail folders are not real folders but attribute tags which it displays as folders.

I'm OK using FCPX without events but I understand the need for them, at least for the foreseeable future. Eliminating events might make the FCPX storage model more pure, but I don't see it bringing any other advantage, and it would create chaos if done.

To answer Oliver's original question, even if database, query and performance factors would have allowed the original FCPX to be without events, I don't think it would have been sellable to customers. It would have been too foreign.


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 12:07:14 am

[Joe Marler] "This is likely one reason why FCPX originally used events. Not doing so would be too foreign, and transitioning or new users had enough to struggle with anyway."

Actually I think the answer is far simpler. They started with Events and Projects because they were working from the iMovie paradigm (no slur intended).

- Oliver

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Bill DavisRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 8:52:38 am

IIRC, Randy Ubillos conceived and prototyped many of the concepts he folded into X while re-writing iMovie.

What would have been the possible value of doing a bunch of seminal thinking about advancing the NLE structure you originally created first for Premiere 1.0 and then FCP Legacy - for a more modern approach to editing - then arbitrarily throwing all that conceptual stuff out?

It would be like any artist doing a series of study drawings for a major painting, then arbitrarily painting something ELSE that used none of the prep.

The fact that quite a few geniuses dubbed X "iMovie Pro" only goes to show how few of them had actual real world experience in conceiving anything genuinely new - and then working long and hard to revise and perfect it.

The people who actually do follow that path generally have a term that describes them.

Inventors.

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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 1:07:53 pm

[Joe Marler] "FCPX is more like a relational database."

Just to be clear, Quantel did this in the late 80s with PaintBox, EditBox, Harry and Henry. So the concept didn't start in NLEs with FCPX.

Oliver

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Walter SoykaRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 3, 2016 at 2:31:27 pm

[Joe Marler] "FCPX is more like a relational database."

[Oliver Peters] "Just to be clear, Quantel did this in the late 80s with PaintBox, EditBox, Harry and Henry. So the concept didn't start in NLEs with FCPX."

I think all NLEs employ relational databases; FCPX is unique in its data model and the (meta)data-driven functionality it delivers to the user.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:05:37 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:14:08 am

[Joe Marler] "Today you can use FCPX perfectly well without any events, although events may have some residual value besides a comfort blanket of familiarity."

I couldn't disagree more. I at least was initially FAR more confused by the library-then-event-then-project structure than I would have been if there had just simply been a library filled with media and projects. So I'd say you're completely backwards on that one. But now that I understand the logic and reasoning behind it, I most definitely would not see getting rid of events within the library in any way as an advancement let alone improvement. Quite the contrary. And never mind that if you only always use ONE event per library, then there is ZERO difference to not having an event at all. Whether you select the library or the event, you're always seeing everything within. So I have now idea how removing the event would change anything for the better aside from making other people's lives more difficult that have understood what events are good for. So I'd say it boils down to "Don't get 'em? Don't use 'em." Absolutely nothing changes for you.

As I said before, I ask do episodic work and having library—>season and event—>episode (plus an additional event containing all the needed title animations, stingers etc. for all) is a brilliant way of working that no other NLE can offer me. Not even close once keywords etc. come into play as well. All in one single neat package at the Finder level! Getting rid of events would therefore be a completely stupid move imho.

And all that is aside from the fact that I was far from serious when I suggested getting rid of folders in the Finder, since that would clearly be just as stupid and counterproductive for pretty much the exact same reasons… which was kind of the point. 😏

- RK

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Walter SoykaRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:24:34 am

I was joking before, but now I sincerely don't understand why bins are bad, but events are good.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Robin S. KurzRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:25:54 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Dec 4, 2016 at 11:30:52 am

[Walter Soyka] "why bins are bad, but events are good."

I remember anyone saying anything about bins (or whether they are "bad" or not). I know I didn't.

- RK

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Tony WestRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 2:17:14 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I sincerely don't understand why bins are bad, but events are good."

I prefer the Event over a bin because with Events you are tagging an element so that it shows up in multiple "virtual bins" instead of dragging an item to different multiple bins.

I can tag it to be in 6 places faster than I can drag it 6 places.


Library Blues 2016

Event Blues vs Blackhawks
Tag goals
Tag Hits
Tag Fans

Event Blues vs Wings

and so on.

The more you narrow things down from the beginning, the faster you find things.

Think of an Event like a zip code. You could find a street address without it, but the zip code narrows it down to one spot on the entire planet.


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Scott WitthausRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 12:29:44 pm

[Tony West] "Think of an Event like a zip code. You could find a street address without it, but the zip code narrows it down to one spot on the entire planet."

Exactly. I regularly work like Tony (not hockey games, though) and use the same org structure. Events are good. Leave them alone. ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 5:40:06 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I was joking before, but now I sincerely don't understand why bins are bad, but events are good."

I thought it was Events are limiting, and folders are not?


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Mark SmithRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 4, 2016 at 6:20:34 pm

So for when I
Am
Cutting ansewuence from
An expedition I work by days and so footage from each day is its own event and then from there I break out types of things - scenes - b roll what have you with keywords and then comments . The common language of the expedition revolves around dates and times and places so having an event for each day of shooting makes the most sense for me .


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Oliver PetersRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 12:09:28 am

The one technical reason I can justify for sticking with Events, as part of the architecture (not talking about the UI), is if Apple added Avid-style multi-editor, simultaneous collaboration. It seems that an under-the-hood Event file could be the foundation that would enable a bin-locking approach.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter SoykaRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 10:41:14 am

Gents, I understand how Events are being used in practice, and I understand that assets must have some root object in the system... I'm just surprised to hear some people who have argued so passionately and articulately for the strength and flexibility of databasey, search-don't-sort keywords/smart collections in the past now also arguing for static, sort-don't-search events.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Bill DavisRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 6:25:05 pm

Walter,

I think there's a regular need for both paths to find a specific asset for your storyline.

If I know the precise asset I'm looking for - if I've properly keyworded it - that's optimal. (Bring me just the thing I need now.)

But what if I just want to survey a "narrowed by Event" class of assets to visually pick one from an array that meets my needs? A single click on the Event allows that.

Both modes are useful.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Tony WestRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 5, 2016 at 7:47:15 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'm just surprised to hear some people who have argued so passionately and articulately for the strength and flexibility of databasey, search-don't-sort keywords/smart collections in the past now also arguing for static, sort-don't-search events."

Bill is correct. It's not an either or, it's both sometimes.

I used the sports example because I thought that would be simple for people to get and you kind of get it, so lets go deeper.

Documentary example

This is just one person in the doc and as you can see there are 13 tags just for this one person alone. There are "40" people and most have much of the same stuff she does. That's not counting music, RX Work, Motion work, B-roll from other locations, Historical Footage, Historical Pics, AEC docs, EPA docs. DOE docs and more. I didn't want a keyword collection that just said Historical pics, there are almost 1000 of them. They need to be tagged within the event.

If I put all of this stuff together in one event I would be scrolling through some 700 tags. That's inefficient.

Everyone had their own family pics, work pics, government documents and so on.

I wanted to be able to go to the person and all their stuff in one click. The only way you could best me Walter would be if you could do it zero clicks. I don't think you can do that, so at best, you could only tie me : )

Library "The Safe Side of the Fence"

Event Denise

Key Sit down
Key B-roll office
Key B-roll documents
Key B-roll meeting
Key B-roll research
Key Claim forms
Key DOCA
Key EEOICPA forms
Key letters
Key Media interviews
Key Work History forms
Key Family pics
Key Work Pics
Key MCW documents


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Winston A. CelyRe: Why do Events still exist?
by on Dec 7, 2016 at 9:35:57 pm

This following is a VERY specific way of using Events, but it works great in my class. (Sorry if something similar has been posted, but I didn't read every single post).

I teach basic video production for high school students, and we use the Library to specify the student, and the event to specify the video project we're working on. So, they may have 10 to 20 projects (depending on school schedules) and the students don't have to create a new Library every time they are assigned a project. Not to mention, as they progress through the program, they have the option of keeping the entire Library through out their 3 year progression (sophomore through senior), or just specific Events (assigned projects).

To be even more specific, it's a great tool for students to be able to open one item and it display their development over a time period.

I enjoy having Events in this circumstance, but I've dealt first hand with instances in which each job should simply be a new Library and no need for individual Events.

Options are always nice, Apple!

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

17" MacBook Pro | 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 3 | FCPX | Motion 5 | Compressor 4

"If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling illusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick


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