APPLE FINAL CUT PRO: Apple Final Cut Pro X FCPX Debates FCP Legacy FCP Tutorials

Red Giant Primatte 5.1

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
David Mathis
Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 12, 2014 at 6:35:23 pm

Just got an e-mail and Red Giant Primatte Keyer 5.1 is now available for FCP X and Motion, it is somewhat expensive at $499 USD but looks interesting.


Return to posts index

John Fishback
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 6:34:39 pm

I used the Primatte Keyer years ago. It was a very good keyer. However, I find the keyer in FCPX & Motion to be excellent. I've never failed to pull a good key with it. I'd be hard pressed to justify the cost of the new Primatte.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.9.2, QT10.1, Kona 3, Dual Cinema 23, ATI Radeon HD 5870, 24" TV-Logic Monitor, ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
FCP-X 10.1.1, Motion 5.0.7, Compressor 4.0.7
FCS 3 (FCP 7.0.3, Motion 4.0.3, Comp 3.5.3, DVDSP 4.2.2, Color 1.5.3)

Pro Tools HD 10 w SYNC IO & 192 Digital I/O, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec DSP Monitors, Prima CDQ120 ISDN


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 6:48:36 pm

I do not share the generally high opinion of the FCPX/M5 keyer. I think that it's very fast and has great automatic settings, but I find that getting really good edges requires extremely compliant source footage (as Simon U. says, "bald men in tightly fitting catsuits").

A couple interesting threads:
Apple FCP X/Motion Keyer Light Wrap issue [link]
Step away from the Apple Keyer now! (And build a better one of your own.) [...
Apple Keyer - more basic errors (for Walter) - EDIT [link]

And my own early experience with the FCPX/M5 keyer [link].

Primatte is a great keyer, even if somewhat on the slow side. I started using it ages ago and still generally prefer it to Ae's bundled Keylight keyer.

And $499 is what a product like this SHOULD cost. (There, I said it.)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 8:00:24 pm

[Walter Soyka] "And $499 is what a product like this SHOULD cost. (There, I said it.)"

Agreed.

The technology in Primatte is outstandingly good and definitely merits the price.

Not sure it's "better" than Keylight though. I find I use both, often in combination, for different aspects of a key.

Every top keyer has it strengths and there's no one single solution at least in my book. Using the best tool for the job is the way to go, I think.

(And sometimes, indeed quite often, it pays to know how to "roll your own".)

Keying is a very, very complex - and ultimately imprecise - art/craft/science. Every keying situation throws a slightly different issue - even within different shots from the same shoot.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 8:49:57 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Not sure it's "better" than Keylight though. I find I use both, often in combination, for different aspects of a key. Every top keyer has it strengths and there's no one single solution at least in my book. Using the best tool for the job is the way to go, I think."

Agreed; I didn't mean to suggest otherwise! To clarify my comment above, I really like Primatte's "intuitive" controls for working directly in the image, not just fiddling sliders.

Since we're on the subject, I've been rather impressed with Premiere Pro's bundled Ultra Key. It's fast like FCPX/M5's keyer, but I've had better success with Ultra Key in handling edges. I also really like using the Autodesk Modular Keyer and have done a few jobs in Smoke just for that workflow. We do have an almost embarrassing array of choices.


[Simon Ubsdell] "Keying is a very, very complex - and ultimately imprecise - art/craft/science. Every keying situation throws a slightly different issue - even within different shots from the same shoot."

Here's a good, geeky article on keying:
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/art_of_keying/

It's a bit old, but still relevant, and it includes a bit about what makes Primatte's approach unique.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 9:08:02 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Since we're on the subject, I've been rather impressed with Premiere Pro's bundled Ultra Key."

I'd second that. You can get some pretty nice results with it. It's certainly streets ahead of the Apple keyer, I'm afraid to say.

The difficulties of designing a keyer for general use are to a large extent in how to present complex and subtle processes to the lay user in such a way that they are comprehensible and as intuitive as possible. Sometimes there has to be a trade-off between what's easy to use and what will actually do the job in an incredible multiplicity of situations.

Most of the time, outside high end compositing environments, the user doesn't and can't be expected to understand the complexities of how keying actually works. The average wants a simple set of sliders - preferably just one, or better still none - that does the job with the minimum of interaction.

The reality of keying is that it's fundamentally imprecise and essentially a cheat, or several different kinds of concatenated cheats, and the single (or minimal) control situation is seriously at odds with the process.

To get great results, you need to make tiny incremental changes to a whole variety of factors, so it's easy to see how this conflicts with building an easy-to-use consumer product.

I should know - I've been working at this on and off for quite a while now.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Aug 13, 2014 at 9:16:23 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Since we're on the subject, I've been rather impressed with Premiere Pro's bundled Ultra Key."

I have to say though I'm not hugely impressed with the new Key Cleaner concept - a fancy gimmick that doesn't really deliver.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index

Dan Hundley
Re: Red Giant Primatte 5.1
on Sep 23, 2014 at 3:27:05 pm

I've been able to get better results especially in the edges/hair with Primatte but the render time is painfully slow, even on my new Mac Pro. Also, I don't understand why sharing a source master file from a fully rendered 422HQ timeline (using Primatte) takes just as long as it did to render. Anybody have any experience with this?


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]